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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    West, Russell, Wilt, and Oscar laid the foundation.

    Kareem held it all together during the storm.

    Magic and Bird build the house.

    Jordan made it into a mansion.

    Everyone else since is living in it and reaping the spoils.
    As a review that's pretty spot on, but in between you see guys like Moses Malone, Artis Gilmore, Nate Thurmond, John Havlicek, Elgin Baylor, Rick Barry, George Gervin, Isiah Thomas, Pete Maravich, Walt Frazier, Willis Reed, Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Kevin McHale, Clyde Drexler, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Sidney Moncrief and so many others that get ignored because people want to hype up modern stars and completely disregard the previous top talent that just didn't get to the fountain often or ever.

    The fact is that the "judges" of these lists do not take into account the full picture and are biased as they are people who have been reporting the NBA and have been around players since the 2000s and on, with a few exceptions covering the 90s as well. So not only this is what they know, they are also liable to be biased with players they personally know.

    I mean Isiah Thomas has to be the most overlooked top player of all time. He barely gets any credit he is a legitimate top 10 candidate. If Lebron gets so much credit for the 2016 championship then what do we say about Isiah with 2 championships by beating the two best teams ever in the 80s Celtics and Lakers and the emerging power of the 90s Bulls on their way to back to back championships?

    There's a clear lack of objectivity in these lists and it won't go away. 10 years from now Lebron won't be #2 but some new guy may be cracking the top 10 and guys like Shaq, Magic, and Bird may very well become footnotes when it's clear that it'll take a lot to shake them off the top 10 and they're quite safe as others have to exit this elite company first.

    But Wilt has become a myth, Michael Jordan is the benchmark, Kareem is a monster and Russel will never be ignored. So that's the main foundation, the "Mount Rushmore" if you wish. I've seen people claim that Steph Curry was a top 10 player ever in 2015, so this shouldn't be a surprise. In ten years maybe Kawhi Leonard and Giannis may be in the discussion of top 5 ever. There's generally no respect for the old timers and too much hype for the new guys. It's a business at the end of the day and saying that Lebron is #2 makes good television and gives many clicks. In 10 years time, maybe not so much. Unless the dude keeps playing till then

  2. #17
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    I would take most guards after Manu Ginobili including his teammate. I think Paul Pierce is lower than he should be. TMac rank is only based off health but he was transcendent.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    As a review that's pretty spot on, but in between you see guys like Moses Malone, Artis Gilmore, Nate Thurmond, John Havlicek, Elgin Baylor, Rick Barry, George Gervin, Isiah Thomas, Pete Maravich, Walt Frazier, Willis Reed, Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Kevin McHale, Clyde Drexler, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Sidney Moncrief and so many others that get ignored because people want to hype up modern stars and completely disregard the previous top talent that just didn't get to the fountain often or ever.

    The fact is that the "judges" of these lists do not take into account the full picture and are biased as they are people who have been reporting the NBA and have been around players since the 2000s and on, with a few exceptions covering the 90s as well. So not only this is what they know, they are also liable to be biased with players they personally know.

    I mean Isiah Thomas has to be the most overlooked top player of all time. He barely gets any credit he is a legitimate top 10 candidate. If Lebron gets so much credit for the 2016 championship then what do we say about Isiah with 2 championships by beating the two best teams ever in the 80s Celtics and Lakers and the emerging power of the 90s Bulls on their way to back to back championships?

    There's a clear lack of objectivity in these lists and it won't go away. 10 years from now Lebron won't be #2 but some new guy may be cracking the top 10 and guys like Shaq, Magic, and Bird may very well become footnotes when it's clear that it'll take a lot to shake them off the top 10 and they're quite safe as others have to exit this elite company first.

    But Wilt has become a myth, Michael Jordan is the benchmark, Kareem is a monster and Russel will never be ignored. So that's the main foundation, the "Mount Rushmore" if you wish. I've seen people claim that Steph Curry was a top 10 player ever in 2015, so this shouldn't be a surprise. In ten years maybe Kawhi Leonard and Giannis may be in the discussion of top 5 ever. There's generally no respect for the old timers and too much hype for the new guys. It's a business at the end of the day and saying that Lebron is #2 makes good television and gives many clicks. In 10 years time, maybe not so much. Unless the dude keeps playing till then
    Yes, there are other greats who deserve to be mentioned for the roles they played in taking the NBA (or the house/mansion in my anology) to where it is today. There are those that had to lay the bricks and mortar and hammer in the nails too. Also, maintaining the mansion that is today's NBA is important work too. Let us just not forget who the main Architects were.

  4. #19
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    I just saw they have Giannis ranked at 27 All-Time lmao. They truly are a hype machine and not to be taken seriously. How can Giannis be ranked above guys like Isiah Thomas and Chris Paul already. Does not make any sense. Harden at 32 is a complete joke as well. Giannis should not even be ranked above James Harden if you want the honest truth and Harden is ranked far above where he should be. A complete joke is this list.

  5. #20
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    Wade at 26?!? Wow. Just wow. Dude deserves to be top 20 at least and arguably top 15 perhaps. What disrespect. I would guess the motivation behind this is to prop up the fact that LeBron did not have all that much top tier help. So sad. They have to **** on guys just to porp others up. I am aware of the hype and financial/business aspect of all this, but to completely **** on guys to forward your agenda is just a crime.

  6. #21
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    I'm sorry, buy in what universe is Charles Barkley above Dwayne Wade lmao. Especially Kawhi being ranked above Wade too.

  7. #22
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    There is it. Just as I thought. Pippen at 21. Hmmm. Just pathetic man. Now it all fits.

    I'm sorry, but how is Scottie Pippen above Dwayne Wade, Charles Barkley, Chris Paul, and Isiah Thomas?!? Not to mention a few others in there as well.

  8. #23
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    Big O at 11 above Hakeem and Jerry West. Come on man.

  9. #24
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    They need to go back to the drawing board.

  10. #25
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usOjhkBt59Y

    Jalen Rose, Paul Pierce and Jay Williams discuss the list, actually a good episode.

  11. #26
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    These lists are mostly bait. Super ambiguous criteria, no mention of their methodology, and a ton of inconsistency in the things they value. The fact that their pretext is 100 or so words before diving into the list should signal to you that this is a pretty surface level attempt at a cavernous subject. Also LOL at them unilaterally moving Kobe into the top 10, after making this same list a few years ago where they had him 11 or 12. I'm sure in another 5 years they'll sneak him into the top 5 just because.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usOjhkBt59Y

    Jalen Rose, Paul Pierce and Jay Williams discuss the list, actually a good episode.
    it was cringe if you hate stats being misrepresented. Ive seen way better insight on PSD

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCaintdead17 View Post
    These lists are mostly bait. Super ambiguous criteria, no mention of their methodology, and a ton of inconsistency in the things they value. The fact that their pretext is 100 or so words before diving into the list should signal to you that this is a pretty surface level attempt at a cavernous subject. Also LOL at them unilaterally moving Kobe into the top 10, after making this same list a few years ago where they had him 11 or 12. I'm sure in another 5 years they'll sneak him into the top 5 just because.
    Yeah but I doubt it was something they all agreed on, just casting votes and combining them

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    They need to go back to the drawing board.
    I heard dwight isnt even mentioned and that dantley was above zeke lol

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    To me I think that's what makes the debates so fun. There is no right answer. Me personally?

    30% Individual Accolades
    30% Longevity
    30% Team Success
    10% Skills

    But that's just a rough balance. I try and combine those first 3 into a cocktail of a legacy and then settle any tiebreakers by just going with my gut on whose skills were better.
    I go 80% peak these days. If you give me a solid 8 or so years of a high enough level of play and considerably higher peak than someone who was technically more accomplished over the span of 20 years, Ill take it. I consider being the better player to be the more important career achievement. Its why I have Paul Pierce below Tmac despite him having a more decorated career.

    I cant forget all the years where no one thought Pierce was better than Tmac, I guess the individual accolades would back this so I got to give that like 5% consideration or something. I cant forget all the years of Pierce missing the playoffs, having underwhelming seasons as a #1 while Tmac was posting historical production and absolutely showing up on both ends for the playoffs.

    For this reason I have Shaq way higher than most.

    If guys have only 3 seasons we really havent seen them tested, if they win a chip they prove alot but we havent seen how they fail either. Bill Walton is above guys like Parish for me but when you put him with a guy like Ewing or D-Rob, thats when I begin to wonder if the lack of longevity has to play a factor in career rankings. IDK tho, Id rather not list those guys.
    Last edited by Chronz; 05-16-2020 at 10:39 PM.

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