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  1. #1
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    Ranking the top 74 NBA players of all time: Nos. 10-1. (ESPN Rankings From 5/13/20)

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...s-all-nos-10-1

    #10.) Shaq
    #9.) Kobe
    #8.) Duncan
    #7.) Bird
    #6.) Wilt
    #5.) Magic
    #4.) Russell
    #3.) Kareem
    #2.) LeBron
    #1.) Jordan

    I personally would move Kobe and Duncan up for longevity but for a list of career achievements I think it's a good order and definitely the right 10 guys.

    Thoughts?


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  2. #2
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    Here is 74 to 41:
    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...-all-nos-74-41

    Here is 40 to 11:
    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...-all-nos-40-11

    These are the rankings that I think are highly debatable.

    Most overrated?

    Most underrated?


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  3. #3
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    As a Blazer fan my two observations are:

    Clyde Drexler is way too low

    This must have been done right around last year's playoffs, because Damian Lillard making the list seems incredible.

  4. #4
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    It's so difficult to come up with uniform criteria for these lists.

    How do you value peak vs longevity? TMac is a perfect example. On peak, he's probably much higher on this list. But he didn't have the longevity. What's the weight of one vs the other there?

    What's the value of individual talent vs fit in a winning structure? Iverson is probably the best example. He was a ball dominant player who could do amazing things, but wasn't efficient enough to have so much offense go through him on a championship level. At the same time, he didn't have the off ball game to be an effective #2. He was kind of stuck in that zone of not being an efficient enough #1 option to win with but not able to adapt as a #2 option with someone who was good enough. How do you weigh that with guys like Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Paul Pierce, Pau Gasol, etc. who weren't as good as #1 options but better fits in their rightful place as #2 options on contending teams? What's the balance there?


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  5. #5
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    One thing I find interesting is how the titles shake out amongst the top players. There have been 40 champions since the 1980 season. Of those 40 champions, 28 of them had at least one of the all time top 10 players from this list. That leaves 12 other championship teams.

    Of the other 12 champions, 8 of them had at least one player in the 11-20 group of this list. That leaves 4 more championship teams.

    Of those final 4, 1 more of them (last year's Raptor's with Kawhi) had the #25 player.

    That leaves only 3 more champions. All 3 of them were Pistons teams. 2 of them had Isiah Thomas, #31 on this list. The last one was that outlier '03-'04 team without anyone on this list.

    Takeaway from this list for me is that if you don't have a top 10 ALL TIME player on your roster, you're probably not sniffing a championship. You have a shot with a guy in the next 20. Beyond that - don't even bother.

    The Heat with Shaq and Duncan's last title you can probably argue that those were top 10 all time players in name only at that point. So you can probably move them down to the group with Wade/Kawhi at #25/26 from this list as the centerpiece. But overall the point still stands.

    You can even extend that down a level. Of the last 40 champions, the vast majority had a second player in the top 30-40. And then a few had some guys on the back end of this list. Only a few managed without at least one other all time great.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    It's so difficult to come up with uniform criteria for these lists.

    How do you value peak vs longevity? TMac is a perfect example. On peak, he's probably much higher on this list. But he didn't have the longevity. What's the weight of one vs the other there?
    The weight is: popularity 70%, peak 5%, longevity 15%, randomness 10%.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    As a Blazer fan my two observations are:

    Clyde Drexler is way too low

    This must have been done right around last year's playoffs, because Damian Lillard making the list seems incredible.
    Hey valade

    I'm curious to hear where you would put him compared to the other SG's vs. overall.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    It's so difficult to come up with uniform criteria for these lists.

    How do you value peak vs longevity? TMac is a perfect example. On peak, he's probably much higher on this list. But he didn't have the longevity. What's the weight of one vs the other there?

    What's the value of individual talent vs fit in a winning structure? Iverson is probably the best example. He was a ball dominant player who could do amazing things, but wasn't efficient enough to have so much offense go through him on a championship level. At the same time, he didn't have the off ball game to be an effective #2. He was kind of stuck in that zone of not being an efficient enough #1 option to win with but not able to adapt as a #2 option with someone who was good enough. How do you weigh that with guys like Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Paul Pierce, Pau Gasol, etc. who weren't as good as #1 options but better fits in their rightful place as #2 options on contending teams? What's the balance there?
    To me I think that's what makes the debates so fun. There is no right answer. Me personally?

    30% Individual Accolades
    30% Longevity
    30% Team Success
    10% Skills

    But that's just a rough balance. I try and combine those first 3 into a cocktail of a legacy and then settle any tiebreakers by just going with my gut on whose skills were better.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    One thing I find interesting is how the titles shake out amongst the top players. There have been 40 champions since the 1980 season. Of those 40 champions, 28 of them had at least one of the all time top 10 players from this list. That leaves 12 other championship teams.

    Of the other 12 champions, 8 of them had at least one player in the 11-20 group of this list. That leaves 4 more championship teams.

    Of those final 4, 1 more of them (last year's Raptor's with Kawhi) had the #25 player.

    That leaves only 3 more champions. All 3 of them were Pistons teams. 2 of them had Isiah Thomas, #31 on this list. The last one was that outlier '03-'04 team without anyone on this list.

    Takeaway from this list for me is that if you don't have a top 10 ALL TIME player on your roster, you're probably not sniffing a championship. You have a shot with a guy in the next 20. Beyond that - don't even bother.

    The Heat with Shaq and Duncan's last title you can probably argue that those were top 10 all time players in name only at that point. So you can probably move them down to the group with Wade/Kawhi at #25/26 from this list as the centerpiece. But overall the point still stands.

    You can even extend that down a level. Of the last 40 champions, the vast majority had a second player in the top 30-40. And then a few had some guys on the back end of this list. Only a few managed without at least one other all time great.
    It is amazing that Pistons franchise was able to pull off that with two separate title teams.


    Kristaps Porzingis
    Stronger than most 15 year old girls.

  10. #10
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    Lebron's ranked too high.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Hey valade

    I'm curious to hear where you would put him compared to the other SG's vs. overall.
    Obviously Jordan is #1. Kobe, Wade, West.

    After that it gets tougher. I think he's better than AI, better than Reggie and Ray. As much as I detest Harden and how he plays, there's no arguing what he's done.

    And even if you want to bring up Harden's playoff chokes, which is definitely valid, it's not like Clyde was setting the world on fire as the #1 option in the playoffs for the Blazers.

    I'd rank him just ahead of Gervin. If T-Mac is a SG, he's below T-Mac in terms of peak.

    (also, hope you're doing well. How is your kid?)

  12. #12
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    Shaq gettin no love lol. He is number seven on my All-Time list. Honestly, Shaq, Kobe, Bron, and Wilt are pretty debatable for me. Could even throw Hakeem's name into that hat and whoever you drew out I would be ok with. I think Duncan is just a smidgen hair above those guys. It's so close in the 6-11 range for me honestly. Would not have Wilt above Bird though. Bird had the ultimate team impact and his impact on the game is second to only Jordan and tied with Magic. Anyways, here is my list for May of 2020.

    1. Jordan (easy)
    2. Kareem
    3. Russell
    4. Magic
    5. Bird
    6. Duncan
    7. Shaq
    8. Kobe
    9. LeBron
    10. Wilt

    Honorable Mention Hakeem. Could easily be a top seven on anyones list and I would not be offended, even could be argued as the most complete center of All-Time.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Obviously Jordan is #1. Kobe, Wade, West.

    After that it gets tougher. I think he's better than AI, better than Reggie and Ray. As much as I detest Harden and how he plays, there's no arguing what he's done.

    And even if you want to bring up Harden's playoff chokes, which is definitely valid, it's not like Clyde was setting the world on fire as the #1 option in the playoffs for the Blazers.

    I'd rank him just ahead of Gervin. If T-Mac is a SG, he's below T-Mac in terms of peak.

    (also, hope you're doing well. How is your kid?)
    I got West over Wade honestly. Very close though. West was perhaps one of the greatest pure shooters in league history and a savage defender. Imagine would he could have done with the three-point line. One of the best mid-range pull ups of All-Time. All the LeBron guys love to make up excuses for lack of winning, but this guy constantly was dragging teams to face superior talent in the Celtics for years. When he got the pieces, he got it done and even won NBA Finals MVP on a team that lost. Had Wilt not twisted his ankle in the final moments of game seven and the coach not been a dingus and put him back in the game, West could have easily been the NBA Finals MVP on a winning team back in 69.

  14. #14
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    West, Russell, Wilt, and Oscar laid the foundation.

    Kareem held it all together during the storm.

    Magic and Bird build the house.

    Jordan made it into a mansion.

    Everyone else since is living in it and reaping the spoils.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Naes View Post
    I got West over Wade honestly. Very close though. West was perhaps one of the greatest pure shooters in league history and a savage defender. Imagine would he could have done with the three-point line. One of the best mid-range pull ups of All-Time. All the LeBron guys love to make up excuses for lack of winning, but this guy constantly was dragging teams to face superior talent in the Celtics for years. When he got the pieces, he got it done and even won NBA Finals MVP on a team that lost. Had Wilt not twisted his ankle in the final moments of game seven and the coach not been a dingus and put him back in the game, West could have easily been the NBA Finals MVP on a winning team back in 69.
    I have no problem putting West over Wade, they are neck and neck to me.

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