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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    That would make sense if Brady was just a game manager coasting on his team carrying him. Brady's defense won him 2 of his first 3 rings, but it's so stupid to ignore the way he's carried that team since the mid-2000s. Hes top 3 in pretty much every record, has 9 SB appearances, and 3 league MVPs to go along with his "ringzzzz". Even better, he's done all of this in the salary cap era, imagine if the Pats could just hang on to every player who thrived in their system the way the 70s Steelers/80s 49ers/90s cowboys could.
    That's why I said Bradshaw should be top 5 on their list. Obviously Brady has better stats than Bradshaw but at the end of the day, most of the reason why anyone puts Brady number one is because of the Super Bowls.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    That's why I said Bradshaw should be top 5 on their list. Obviously Brady has better stats than Bradshaw but at the end of the day, most of the reason why anyone puts Brady number one is because of the Super Bowls.
    I mean, aside from being a Marino fanboy, I don't see an argument for anyone over Brady, and not because of his number of rings. He's got the stats, accolades, he rarely chokes, and hes clutch as ****. I can't say there's another guy I'd rather have if I needed to win one game.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  3. #48
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    Those who don't consider Brady to be the GOAT think that way for various reasons. They say it's all because of Belichick. They say it's the defense that carried him. Many also dislike the Patriots franchise and hesitate to give someone like Brady his due. I can understand that... I'm a Steelers fan. But you gotta tip your hat to Brady. He won with a multitude of supporting casts. He's had a revolving door at the WR position and still finds a way to win. He's Mr. Clutch, and has ice water in his veins at crunch time. The epic comeback in the SB against Atlanta should be ample proof of that.

    It's tough to pick "greatest QBs" lists, because it depends how much weight you put on the different aspects, like winning SB's, versus all the other passing stats. I picked him first and Montana second, because they're both proven winners. But admittedly, cases can be made for all lists.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I mean, aside from being a Marino fanboy, I don't see an argument for anyone over Brady, and not because of his number of rings. He's got the stats, accolades, he rarely chokes, and hes clutch as ****. I can't say there's another guy I'd rather have if I needed to win one game.
    No doubt he's clutch, but I think it's quite a bit overblown as to how clutch he is. For example, he's got 13 game winning drives in the playoffs... The next closest is Elway with 6. BUT he's started 41 playoff games compared to Elway's 21. That equals 32% of Brady's games compared to 29% of Elway's games... Not a huge difference, and it's plausible to say that the difference could have been from being surrounded with a better team and coaches (13 of Elway's 21 starts in the playoffs were before Shanahan was the HC).

    And I'm not saying Elway is the goat either. I'm just showing that what Brady's best known for (Super Bowls and being clutch) is more of a product of sheer volume rather than some crazy anomaly. Then when you look at the fact that every year he's won a Super Bowl, his defense has been top 10 in terms of PPG. As a matter of fact, on average, they're ranked 4th each year that he won a Super Bowl. It just becomes kinda mind boggling that player could be in such a good situation for so long.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsPR View Post
    Those who don't consider Brady to be the GOAT think that way for various reasons. They say it's all because of Belichick. They say it's the defense that carried him. Many also dislike the Patriots franchise and hesitate to give someone like Brady his due. I can understand that... I'm a Steelers fan. But you gotta tip your hat to Brady. He won with a multitude of supporting casts. He's had a revolving door at the WR position and still finds a way to win. He's Mr. Clutch, and has ice water in his veins at crunch time. The epic comeback in the SB against Atlanta should be ample proof of that.

    It's tough to pick "greatest QBs" lists, because it depends how much weight you put on the different aspects, like winning SB's, versus all the other passing stats. I picked him first and Montana second, because they're both proven winners. But admittedly, cases can be made for all lists.
    I don't think anyone claims that Brady isn't great. It's just when people start claiming he's the goat, it's hard for them to come up with a good argument as to why he is.

  6. #51
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    the steve young hate would be 1 thing but people dont even see the greatness



    he was rodgers but in the ****ing 90s

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    I don't think anyone claims that Brady isn't great. It's just when people start claiming he's the goat, it's hard for them to come up with a good argument as to why he is.
    his longevity is impressive now so we cant really say he isnt in the argument but the cheating/lack of a division/multiple byes before facing anyone and having the goat coach seems to be ignored. Put him in a real division with any other coach and he is a great QB but def not legendary... he owes bb everything.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    the steve young hate would be 1 thing but people dont even see the greatness



    he was rodgers but in the ****ing 90s
    I can't believe you, of all people, aren't saying Young was Russell Wilson in the 90s...especially given that's a far closer style comparison anyway.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    his longevity is impressive now so we cant really say he isnt in the argument but the cheating/lack of a division/multiple byes before facing anyone and having the goat coach seems to be ignored. Put him in a real division with any other coach and he is a great QB but def not legendary... he owes bb everything.
    Exactly

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    his longevity is impressive now so we cant really say he isnt in the argument but the cheating/lack of a division/multiple byes before facing anyone and having the goat coach seems to be ignored. Put him in a real division with any other coach and he is a great QB but def not legendary... he owes bb everything.
    I mean, there's people who try to put Peyton over Brady and he had a trash division, multiple byes that he choked away, and a very good (though overrated IMO) HC. He also had weapons out the *** his entire career. But Peyton fans make every excuse in the book for why he only won 1 SB during his time as a good player.

    Honestly it's not just Peyton. Every top 5 QB is like this. Look at Joe Montana. Most of his career was spent with a stacked team and one of the GOAT HCs, yet so many people were brainwashed to never question him as the GOAT QB until Brady won #4. If you want to talk about a player who gets overrated by rings, it fits Montana just as well as anyone.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  11. #56
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    It will be interesting to see how he fares with his new team, the Bucs. Admittedly he's a bit long in the tooth, but I'm thinking he has a pretty good year (all pending if/when the season opens, of course).

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I mean, there's people who try to put Peyton over Brady and he had a trash division, multiple byes that he choked away, and a very good (though overrated IMO) HC. He also had weapons out the *** his entire career. But Peyton fans make every excuse in the book for why he only won 1 SB during his time as a good player.

    Honestly it's not just Peyton. Every top 5 QB is like this. Look at Joe Montana. Most of his career was spent with a stacked team and one of the GOAT HCs, yet so many people were brainwashed to never question him as the GOAT QB until Brady won #4. If you want to talk about a player who gets overrated by rings, it fits Montana just as well as anyone.
    Which, then, makes for an interesting look at things- which great QB did NOT also spend much of his career with a great HC? If you're suggesting Joe Montana benefited from Bill Walsh as his HC, Brady also benefited from BB as his.....while you have a lower opinion apparently of Tony Dungy as Manning's HC (but also lower Peyton on the GOAT list, too).

    Has there ever been one without the other?

    I mean Brady now has a stacked offense, but no BB...so while the offense could be prolific, how much of it can he be credited for? And how far can the Bucs go with a Brady/Arians connection? We may only get one year to see.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Which, then, makes for an interesting look at things- which great QB did NOT also spend much of his career with a great HC? If you're suggesting Joe Montana benefited from Bill Walsh as his HC, Brady also benefited from BB as his.....while you have a lower opinion apparently of Tony Dungy as Manning's HC (but also lower Peyton on the GOAT list, too).

    Has there ever been one without the other?

    I mean Brady now has a stacked offense, but no BB...so while the offense could be prolific, how much of it can he be credited for? And how far can the Bucs go with a Brady/Arians connection? We may only get one year to see.
    Using my own personal list, I don't think it was until I got to Elway/Favre that I could think of that.

    Elway - Reeves, Wade Phillips, Shanahan. Reeves was ok, but not great. Phillips is a defensive coach. Shanahan was kinda meh without Elway.

    Farve - Holmgren, Rhodes, Sherman, McCarthy, Mangini, Childress, Frazier

  14. #59
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    I find it really hard to compare guys from early days of football to the 60's so I'm going to leave them out. So my list goes:
    1.) John Elway
    2.) Dan Marino
    3.) Steve Young
    4.) Tom Brady
    5.) Peyton Manning
    6.) Brett Favre
    7.) Joe Montana
    8.) Aaron Rodgers
    9.) Fran Tarkenton
    10.) Roger Staubach
    Honorable Mentions: Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Ken Anderson, Kurt Warner, Jim Kelly

  15. #60
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    Holmgren and Reeves were at least above average coaches...and were I believe Favre and Elway's primary coaches? But yeah, those 2 QBs more than most proved they could be great even if their HC wasn't

    Is that why Brady left? to prove he could be great even if his HC isn't? Not denigrating Arians, he's certainly no Brad Childress or Leslie Frazier, but he's also no BB or Walsh.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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