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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by hester23fan4va View Post
    if you knew 100% that Brady was going to become Brady before his draft but you also had no idea if anyone else knew it or not, where would you draft him? #1 overall? First, second, third, fourth, fifth, or let him fall alway to the 6th because you could get more value at a different position for the first few rounds.
    💯. The logic in this is perfect

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic View Post
    Paceís exact thinking regarding Trubisky. I like the Kmet pick tho. I wouldíve gone with Winfield but as I read your post I couldnít help but think about how that mustíve been paceís thinking when drafting trubisky.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not quite, as there were teams in discussions with the 9ers to move up into their slot. Who were they zeroing in on? Mitch? Mahomes? Watson? Pace didnít want to take the chance heíd lose out on his QB. It didnít work out to this point, but the two situations are different.

    We also donít know if he even had the opportunity to move down or what the offer was from other teams - If any.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Not quite, as there were teams in discussions with the 9ers to move up into their slot. Who were they zeroing in on? Mitch? Mahomes? Watson? Pace didnít want to take the chance heíd lose out on his QB. It didnít work out to this point, but the two situations are different.

    We also donít know if he even had the opportunity to move down or what the offer was from other teams - If any.
    nobody cares about the trade up if mitch works out. Does anyone recall what the Cheifs gave up to grab mahomes?

    The trade should not bother anyone. if u want to criticize anything its that they evaluated mitch wrong .

    I seem to remember there were rumors the Browns could try and trade up and get both Garret and Mitch.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  4. #139
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    So Pace in his infinite wisdom decided to "break up the Browns" ,move up and NOT let them take both Mitch and Garret???
    Look and this the last time I'm going to say this.....
    Wrong evaluation of Mitch's talents!!!
    Wrong by giving AWAY assets to move up and draft him! All this is fact....If its ok for some people to have their GM give away assets to move up and get his "guy" That by the way turns out to "not" be the guy....So be it!

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bainsy View Post
    So Pace in his infinite wisdom decided to "break up the Browns" ,move up and NOT let them take both Mitch and Garret???
    Look and this the last time I'm going to say this.....
    Wrong evaluation of Mitch's talents!!!
    Wrong by giving AWAY assets to move up and draft him! All this is fact....If its ok for some people to have their GM give away assets to move up and get his "guy" That by the way turns out to "not" be the guy....So be it!
    So if pace had traded up 1 spot to prevent the browns from getting Mahomes???? and taken mahomes and had a franchise level QB..... You would still cry over the trad to move up 1 spot.... lets admit it if the bears had a franchise level QB u give up a 1st to go up 1 spot and get him and dont give 2 ***** about it. Mitches evaluation was wrong.... i give u that. But To go get your guy. i will never have an issue with a GM who goes after a guy if he thinks he has it.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  6. #141
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    That's my point ....I have said it at plenty of times , if you trade assets away to move up...You better be damn right. Thank you for making my point with your example!

    You make it sound like"hey its ok to be wrong" as long as you are aggressive....

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bainsy View Post
    That's my point ....I have said it at plenty of times , if you trade assets away to move up...You better be damn right. Thank you for making my point with your example!

    You make it sound like"hey its ok to be wrong" as long as you are aggressive....
    Nobody is a slam dunk though.... You liked mitch more than mahomes and Watson.... you thought he could be the guy. Thats all the evaluation part. The wrong evaluation does not make you wrong for going up and getting a guy though. If you were right nobody cares. and u dont know if your right till the guy steps onto an nfl feild and proves it.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  8. #143
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    I think we should be grading the offseason as a whole rather than focusing so much on 1 controversial pick. Altogether, we have filled a lot of holes well. Kmet might not be loved by everyone cuz they feel it's a reach, but at the same time, they should feel a lot better about the TE position now and in the future. Corner is more solidified. WR we added a couple potential speedsters with Ginn and Mooney. At QB we got a solid guy with big game capability in Foles. We brought in a Safety in Gipson so at least the position was somewhat addressed. We landed the Pass Rusher to complement Mack finally. It wasn't a bad offseason for us.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    I think we should be grading the offseason as a whole rather than focusing so much on 1 controversial pick. Altogether, we have filled a lot of holes well. Kmet might not be loved by everyone cuz they feel it's a reach, but at the same time, they should feel a lot better about the TE position now and in the future. Corner is more solidified. WR we added a couple potential speedsters with Ginn and Mooney. At QB we got a solid guy with big game capability in Foles. We brought in a Safety in Gipson so at least the position was somewhat addressed. We landed the Pass Rusher to complement Mack finally. It wasn't a bad offseason for us.
    agreed.

    I just think it's interesting, per my brady analogy, to say a guy is a reach when you have no idea what he could or couldn't be. like Kyben said, trading up to grab mitch sucks now because mitch isn't that good. if Bears traded up to grab mahomes, no one would give two f'ks about the trade. If Kmet is a Tony Gonzalez type player for the next 10 years, a 43rd pick would be a steal...imo

  10. #145
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    Even if we are grading the full off-season, I'm not incredibly impressed. I'm glad Pace moved on from Floyd, but Quinn was a costly signing and not exactly a model of consistency. There's upside to that signing, but also, I'd argue, a lot of risk. Foles is fine as a stopgap, but it's not like he doesn't come with a price, and he's still not exactly the guy you'd like to be your QB when you're all in to try and win. Graham was just a straight up overpay. Kmet was a reach.

    I understand Pace was going into this off-season pretty handcuffed, and I'm glad he was more aggressive than I even expected him to be, but I can't say I'm enamoured with what he did either. It's far from the worst off-season ever, I wouldn't even say it's bad, but I also can't really grade it much better than a C or C+.
    Last edited by La_bibbers; 05-08-2020 at 09:53 PM.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Even if we are grading the full off-season, I'm not incredibly impressed. I'm glad Pace moved on from Floyd, but Quinn was a costly signing and not exactly a model of consistency. There's upside to that signing, but also, I'd argue, a lot of risk. Foles is fine as a stopgap, but it's not like he doesn't come with a price, and he's still not exactly the guy you'd like to be your QB when you're all in to try and win. Graham was just a straight up overpay. Kmet was a reach.

    I understand Pace was going into this off-season pretty handcuffed, and I'm glad he was more aggressive than I even expected him to be, but I can't say I'm enamoured with what he did either. It's far from the worst off-season ever, I wouldn't even say it's bad, but I also can't really grade it much better than a C or C+.
    out of curiosity, what should he have done to make an A offseason?

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by hester23fan4va View Post
    out of curiosity, what should he have done to make an A offseason?
    For me? A lot of it is as simple as how he handled the tight end situation. If he was gonna address it with all the resources he ended up using, he might as well have just gone after Hooper. Even Ebron or Jarwin would've been better value, and are at least guys in their prime. If it was gonna be Graham, it should've been for about half the AAV IMO. Punt the tight end pick into one of the later rounds and address the O-line, safety, or a speed receiver earlier would've been my preference, even though Mooney was pretty good value where we got him. Or, broken record, at the very least, if the pick was gonna be Kmet/TE, trade back and address one of those positions with a 4th.

    I won't knock the lack of depth at O-line, ILB, or edge rusher cause it's still pretty possible and likely he addresses most of that through this second wave of FA. Though, if he fails to, I think you could doc some points from that too.

    Anyway, I think people are far too liberal with A grades. An A to me would have taken something unexpected. Either getting guys he shouldn't have gotten for what he paid, or landing someone truly impactful, in the case of the Bears, probably at QB, TE, or the O-line. Something more like that would've gotten him into the B range (nothing wrong with a B by the way). As it is, I don't think this is a much better team than it was last year. Quinn is probably the only area where we're likely to see noticable improvement over last year. Well, and Foles in that he's not Mitchell Trubisky, but again, not like we didn't pay a price for him.

    Overall, I think Pace did a serviceable job filling out most of the holes on the roster, but I don't think he got a lot of bang for his buck and I think most of his acquisitions were patch jobs/stop gaps. Quinn, Gipson, Foles, Graham combined with a "meh" draft (aside from the Johnson pick) doesn't excite and doesn't equate to anything near an A to me. So, yeah, it's a C .
    Last edited by La_bibbers; 05-09-2020 at 05:25 PM.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by hester23fan4va View Post
    out of curiosity, what should he have done to make an A offseason?
    Foles trade to me was a A+ after finding out how they restructured him. It would have been a B- or C had we had to pay him what he was making from his jax contract.... but he is only due 6.6 the next two years and 10 the 3rd.... which is literally backup money. Whether he is the guy or not its not like we have to pay him an absorbent amount And loosing a 4th sucks.... but for all the talk of Cam....or Dalton. Both would be making that and not have any experience in this system. This offseason will be weird and having somebody with Familiarity helps and to me that knowledge for the system is worth a 4th. (you can disagree if you want)

    Quinn vs Floyd should be looked at as a A move. You got a severe upgrade at no cost basically. Cant complain there.

    I like the way the structured Danny T and made sure to get him back. loosing him would not have been the worst thing but it would have made ILB a huge need for this team. At least a B if not B+ for this move

    Mingo Ifedi Burns Gipson Spriggs and Ginn are all No cost high upside backups or potential starters. Really cant complain about this on any because every single one has starting experience or potential for less than 2 mil


    The only spots i have complaints about are

    Jimmy Greham- Who is overpaid.... yes but we needed stability especially if we realized that Burton was not going to be healthy enough to play. I know some liked Ebron who was coming off I think 2 foot surgeries.... Olsen (who is making 1 mil less than JG ) or Witten.... But the options were obviously limited. Yes you could have traded a 2nd for Hurst.... or God knows what for any of the other TEs rumored to be available but never got traded. But if your looking for consistency and Experience.. At least Jimmy G is on the feild. YOu cant say that for some other options. ( I would give it a C but lets call it a D for Worst case)

    NOT TRADING DOWN is my bigest Pet peve of this offseason. With limited picks i really felt like you had to. We just needed more picks to reload this team some. But coming away with 3 5th round picks was not that bad either.

    THE LACK of Help on the OL. As for today scares me. I have not seen enough to say that I think the OL will be better just because of a coaching staff rearrangement. This one could change though cause we do have money and reported interest in Warford.... if we land him this move up to a + not a - But as of right now... this deserves an D on paper (would be an F but ill give a slight bump for Ifedi and Spriggs)

    And as far as anyone who wants to criticize the Kmet pick. Which i dont necessarily like myself. I will let Kmet decide if he is worth that pick. The fact is i had said it all offseason we needed a TE to develop behind Jimmy G. Who is older and you just need to start developing a guy behind him. Unless you have any faith in any of the other guys on our roster to step up. Drafting a TE made sense. Maybe not as high as that In you opinion. But the staff saw something in this kid they liked. (lets call this a C+ because it wasnt exactly a reach based on consensus so its average and add the Plus for need)

    .................................................. ..............

    So I have it

    Player... Grade.... (Credits Applied to ballance out some being more important than others)

    Foles A (5)
    Quinn A (4)
    Trevathan B+ (3)
    Mingo B- (2)
    Ifedi B+ (3)
    Burns B- (1)
    Gipson A- (3)
    Spriggs B (2)
    Ginn B+ (2)
    Kmet C+ (3)
    Johnson B+ (3)
    Gipson B (2)
    Vildor B (1)
    Mooney B- (1)
    Greham D+ (3)
    OL D (as of Today) (5)

    And Using these Grades... and using a College Calculator.... and Using 5 Credits QB Foles (importants of a starting QB) and the OL (I have this as a big deal).... 4 Credits for Impact Starters (Quinn) 3 Credits for Starters (Gipson Johnson and Trevathan) 2 Credits for Quality Backups/Compition (Spriggs... Ginn ... Ifedi if we get a Guard like Warford)... and 1 Credit for Developmental or Deep Depth I come out with GPA Calculation of 2.9... Which is a B-. Which really isnt far off from Bibbers C+


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    For me? A lot of it is as simple as how he handled the tight end situation. If he was gonna address it with all the resources he ended up using, he might as well have just gone after Hooper. Even Ebron or Jarwin would've been better value, and are at least guys in their prime. If it was gonna be Graham, it should've been for about half the AAV IMO. Punt the tight end pick into one of the later rounds and address the O-line, safety, or a speed receiver earlier would've been my preference, even though Mooney was pretty good value where we got him. Or, broken record, at the very least, if the pick was gonna be Kmet/TE, trade back and address one of those positions with a 4th.

    I won't knock the lack of depth at O-line, ILB, or edge rusher cause it's still pretty possible and likely he addresses most of that through this second wave of FA. Though, if he fails to, I think you could doc some points from that too.

    Anyway, I think people are far too liberal with A grades. An A to me would have taken something unexpected. Either getting guys he shouldn't have gotten for what he paid, or landing someone truly impactful, in the case of the Bears, probably at QB, TE, or the O-line. Something more like that would've gotten him into the B range (nothing wrong with a B by the way). As it is, I don't think this is a much better team than it was last year. Quinn is probably the only area where we're likely to see noticable improvement over last year. Well, and Foles in that he's not Mitchell Trubisky, but again, not like we didn't pay a price for him.

    Overall, I think Pace did a serviceable job filling out most of the holes on the roster, but I don't think he got a lot of bang for his buck and I think most of his acquisitions were patch jobs/stop gaps. Quinn, Gipson, Foles, Graham combined with a "meh" draft (aside from the Johnson pick) doesn't excite and doesn't equate to anything near an A to me. So, yeah, it's a C .
    You are a tough man to please.

    Also, how do you know he didn't go after Hooper? Or Ebron or Jarwin? Part of the problem with these expectations is that the player has to want to be a Bear too.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  15. #150
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    Not addressing the OL much makes it hard to get too excited about this offseason. Pace has name dropped Juan Castillo a few times in his pressers like he's some kind of miracle worker, so I guess I'm not too surprised, but still. Admittedly, the contracts of Leno, Whitehair, and Massie basically locked us in to another season of them anyway, but when your biggest addition is Germain Ifedi for peanuts, that's problematic. It's compounded by just watching several really good OL prospects fly off the board during the draft too. Plenty were there for the taking at 43 or in trade down scenarios.
    Last edited by DamnGoat; 05-09-2020 at 06:11 PM.

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