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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    I still think there's untapped potential in him too. At least with Floyd & Miller those guys weren't just worthless busts. Just haven't become impact talents that we needed.
    I think 2018 Floyd had a great impact. He had to have been one of the best run contain OLBs in the league that years thatís just based off watching the games and watching him blow up so many key run plays. He also was probably above average in dropping back into coverage. Itís just a shame he was mostly judged on sack totals, because he did a lot of really good things at an elite level. He was just below average for his position at the one thing ppl judge that position on.

  2. #122
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    Floyd was good in coverage, but I think that part of his game was generally overrated by a lot of fans. He's seen 31 targets in coverage over the last 2 seasons (less than 1 per game) and they're almost all under 5 yards.

    As far as doing a lot of really good things at an elite level, I'd be interested to hear that argument. Defending the run, sure, probably... but what else? The sample is really small and limited to dump offs in coverage, he was obviously a poor pass rusher in terms of sacks, pressures, hits, etc. What else is there?

    IMO he's probably just miscast as an edge rusher. Likely better suited as a WLB in a hybrid scheme.
    Last edited by DamnGoat; 05-02-2020 at 02:02 PM.

  3. #123
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    43rd Pick: TE, Cole Kmet

    Floyd should have been an ILB who could pop up everywhere sometimes that would have been his best impact than edge rusher exclusively. Thatís how he was at Georgia


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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Floyd was good in coverage, but I think that part of his game was generally overrated by a lot of fans. He's seen 31 targets in coverage over the last 2 seasons (less than 1 per game) and they're almost all under 5 yards.

    As far as doing a lot of really good things at an elite level, I'd be interested to hear that argument. Defending the run, sure, probably... but what else? The sample is really small and limited to dump offs in coverage, he was obviously a poor pass rusher in terms of sacks, pressures, hits, etc. What else is there?

    IMO he's probably just miscast as an edge rusher. Likely better suited as a WLB in a hybrid scheme.
    My argument is based solely off watching the games. Of course most of his pass defenses were short yardage. He was defending the flats mostly, but the few times he dropped back, he used his length to break up plays. I recall one where he dropped back and played a ball perfectly but dropped the pick 6. He was a really key contributor on the 2018 defense that was elite. He was dominant on short yardage stretch plays on 3rd and shorts. When runners were within his reach, he engulfed them with his length.

    Iím not arguing we shoulda kept him btw. Iím just saying, outside the low sack numbers and definitely being sort misplaced in the system, he was very impactful.

  5. #125
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    https://twitter.com/danpompei/status...440310272?s=21


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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    It is hard to know for certain. But if we're playing that game how can we be critical of any pick? We have to go based on what information is available, and all the information that does exist suggests that Kmet at 43 is a reach.

    You might like Kmet and think he's a better prospect than the rest of the tight ends in this draft, but do you think he's 50 picks better than the next guy? Even if the Bears traded back and missed out on him, you don't think there were 2 prospects substantially more valuable that they could have gotten with a tradeback? Is he a guy that anyone thinks is "can't miss" at that point in the draft? I just don't see it. I think it's more likely internally that there were executives laughing at the Bears for that pick than envying them.
    I zero complaints of being critical of a pick, thinking there were better options or a different route. For sure, not a problem with that. I've even said respect opinions. IMO, being critical would be like a Cish grade, still seeing the plus sides, still understanding the rational. You said this pick was an F, but actual a D because of need of the team. that's more than critical.

    Why would Dan Pompei write this if there "were executives laughing at the Bears for that pick"

    Dan Pompei -
    In my survey of 20 NFL front office men who evaluated tight ends, only one said he didnít have Cole Kmet rated in the first two rounds of the draft. Six said they rated him in the first round.
    Then their is this article https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/be...rst-round-pick

    If you think he is a B player and a C draft because it was could have been slightly later in the draft, fine. But to call it an out right F? NFL executives said he is a first round pick or that he would be at least taken in the first two rounds. an F grade to me is a 5-6th round pick, if not even drafted. Maybe I don't understand your rating system, but an F grade that turns to a D because of team needs, damn, you must know a lot more than these 20ish NFL executives

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by hester23fan4va View Post
    I zero complaints of being critical of a pick, thinking there were better options or a different route. For sure, not a problem with that. I've even said respect opinions. IMO, being critical would be like a Cish grade, still seeing the plus sides, still understanding the rational. You said this pick was an F, but actual a D because of need of the team. that's more than critical.

    Why would Dan Pompei write this if there "were executives laughing at the Bears for that pick"

    Dan Pompei -

    Then their is this article https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/be...rst-round-pick

    If you think he is a B player and a C draft because it was could have been slightly later in the draft, fine. But to call it an out right F? NFL executives said he is a first round pick or that he would be at least taken in the first two rounds. an F grade to me is a 5-6th round pick, if not even drafted. Maybe I don't understand your rating system, but an F grade that turns to a D because of team needs, damn, you must know a lot more than these 20ish NFL executives
    My literal description of the pick:

    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    He wasn't the best player available and he isn't a guy that's likely to help us win now. In all likelihood, he's a guy we could've traded 10+ slots down and still drafted. TE is a position of need and it's not like Kmet is a scrub, so the pick's not an F, but I think it's a solid D.
    The key here being the bolded. Big difference between that and calling it an "outright F." As for the part where I said I could see GMs laughing at the pick, it was total conjecture on my part. But anyway, 6 GMs rating him a 1st round pick doesn't surprise me. It's less than 1/5 of the league. 20 GMs rating him inside the first 2 rounds doesn't either. I don't know that it means 26 GMs thought he should have gone in the 2nd where he did go.
    Last edited by La_bibbers; 05-04-2020 at 12:08 PM.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    My literal description of the pick:



    The key here being the bolded. Big difference between that and calling it an "outright F." As for the part where I said I could see GMs laughing at the pick, it was total conjecture on my part. But anyway, 6 GMs rating him a 1st round pick doesn't surprise me. It's less than 1/5 of the league. 20 GMs rating him inside the first 2 rounds doesn't either. I don't know that it means 26 GMs thought he should have gone in the 2nd where he did go.
    I completely agree with this assessment of the Kmet pick.

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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    The key here being the bolded. Big difference between that and calling it an "outright F." As for the part where I said I could see GMs laughing at the pick, it was total conjecture on my part. But anyway, 6 GMs rating him a 1st round pick doesn't surprise me. It's less than 1/5 of the league. 20 GMs rating him inside the first 2 rounds doesn't either. I don't know that it means 26 GMs thought he should have gone in the 2nd where he did go.
    not sure either, 26 or 20, or were they in the same franchise, hard to say.

    I guess my question is, if 20% of the league said he was a 1st round talent and 62% of the league said he'd be drafted in the 2nd, why grade it a D? would you have given it a D+ if bears drafted one of guys you suggested at 43 and then Kmet at 50?

    Just trying to understand your logic. D or F, i would consider that player not playing much at all. Or is this D strictly 100% draft spot. Like you'd give it an A+ if Bears grabbed him in the 6th?

    Player, spot, or both that gives him the solid D. 10% player, 90% spot

  10. #130
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    The spot and player I give it a C!

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by hester23fan4va View Post
    not sure either, 26 or 20, or were they in the same franchise, hard to say.

    I guess my question is, if 20% of the league said he was a 1st round talent and 62% of the league said he'd be drafted in the 2nd, why grade it a D? would you have given it a D+ if bears drafted one of guys you suggested at 43 and then Kmet at 50?

    Just trying to understand your logic. D or F, i would consider that player not playing much at all. Or is this D strictly 100% draft spot. Like you'd give it an A+ if Bears grabbed him in the 6th?

    Player, spot, or both that gives him the solid D. 10% player, 90% spot
    This is getting exhausting. I've given my reasons. It's the the value, the fact that a failure to trade back affected our ability to address other positions in what was a deep draft, the lack of immediate impact that rookie tight ends tend to give, etc.

    Of course if the Bears got him in the 6th it'd be an A pick. If they'd traded back and got him 10 picks later I would be fine with it. It wouldn't be an A, mind you, but a C+/B- just cause I still don't think the value would've been particularly great.

  12. #132
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    This is beyond exhausting lol. Football might not start for a long *** time so we need to def talk about something else lol.

  13. #133
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    Just a few thoughts I havenít seen come up.

    1) TE was a gaping hole for CHI last year. Pace signed a guy who can line-up off the line (Graham) and drafted a guy who can play well in-line (Kmet). They fit different roles, but both are needed in this offense. A guy like Kmet allows the offense to disguise plays as he is a capable blocker who can also be a receiving threat.

    2) People wanted OL help and a strong argument can be made that Kmet is OL help. He is a very solid blocking TE which could be very useful in helping the run game. CHI needed this type of TE - Burton, Shaheen, Graham...no one on the roster filled the dual threat TE role.

    3) Of all the positions of need, most felt TE, Safety, and Corner had been the least effectively addressed going into the draft. CHI drafted a TE and a CB in the 2nd, then signed a very solid starter at Safety. Certainly a case can be made that CHI could have traded down and gotten better value on Kmet, but CHI now has two options at TE, a new starting CB, and a new starting Safety. That feels like a success when all factors are taken into account.

    I think the real question here is value, not which TE was best. You can almost argue player rankings at a position - CHI clearly liked Kmet over the others and that seems fair. As to value, I think 43 was too high to take Kmet - that means bad value. But in context of CHIís biggest needs heading into the draft, Pace has seemingly addressed all of them with at least one new option via FA, draft, and trades. He might have been able to get more value out of the Kmet pick, but I am hard-pressed to be overly critical of taking Kmet when CHI had such a glaring hole at TE.

    Pick Grade: B-


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  14. #134
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    if you knew 100% that Brady was going to become Brady before his draft but you also had no idea if anyone else knew it or not, where would you draft him? #1 overall? First, second, third, fourth, fifth, or let him fall alway to the 6th because you could get more value at a different position for the first few rounds.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by hester23fan4va View Post
    if you knew 100% that Brady was going to become Brady before his draft but you also had no idea if anyone else knew it or not, where would you draft him? #1 overall? First, second, third, fourth, fifth, or let him fall alway to the 6th because you could get more value at a different position for the first few rounds.
    Paceís exact thinking regarding Trubisky. I like the Kmet pick tho. I wouldíve gone with Winfield but as I read your post I couldnít help but think about how that mustíve been paceís thinking when drafting trubisky.


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