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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    So this is crazy. Me being the voice of reason, when I'm totally on the other side of this, but we need to let day 2 play out before we judge it. What if we trade our 2021 1st to Miami for pick 39. Most of the players we were interested in at 30 would likely still be there. Then we'd have 39 instead of 30, but might get the same player we wanted at 30.

    Then you could say we traded our 2021 1st and 136 in 2020 for Jordan Love. Everyone says we shouldn't have done this until 2 years from now, but Jordan Love was going to be on someone else's roster in 2 years. If he ends up being a notch below Patrick Maholmes and we nabbed him this late in the 1st, it could be the best pick we made since we drafted Aaron Rodgers.

    There is still opportunity get Rodgers some weapons in this draft. If we get Rodgers the weapons he needs the season is not lost. Forget the RT, we can get him next year. He wasn't going to play anyhow. Lets wait until the end of round 3 and then pass judgement.
    Then next year we don't have a first and are in the same issue where we are plugging holes without picks. Next year's first rounder still likely has a more immediate impact than love.

    And I don't think any detractors are saying we can't still have a decent draft. But anything we do today or tomorrow could have been done regardless of who we drafted last night. And there's no doubt in my mind that Love is the least impactufl guy we could have reasonably taken in regards to immediate impact.

    There's two schools of thought. One is maximize the next 2-4 years while you have Rodgers because you don't know what comes next. The other is start planning for life after Rodgers, even if that means potentially not moving all the chips into the middle of the table the next few years. Drafting love is clearly a sign of the latter. Im personally a fan of the former. And if you're a fan of the former, love could be the worst possible pick. The only potential bright side of that group is maybe we'll get pissed off, run the table Rodgers back.

  2. #32
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    Like maybe shenault falls to us in the 2nd tonight. And maybe akeem Davis Gaither or Logan Wilson fall to us in the 3rd. And maybe a guy like Jack Driscoll falls to the 5th or we use our 5th and a 6th or 2 to go up and get him or someone similar.

    Maybe the scenario is one of the DL like madubuike is the guy in the 2nd and we go with someone like Bryan Edwards in the 3rd and Troy dye falls to the 5th or a lineman or something.

    Those are great scenarios. But those awesome scenarios would be even better for the win now crowd if yoh couple that with Blacklock in the first for the first scenario or Josh Jones in the 2nd scenario.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I get the concept of maximizing Rodgers, but don't understand how this argument can continue to be made. I get why the move is unpopular. The Packers don't take WR's in round 1, statistically first-round WR's are usually bust. Also, a ton of stud WR's are on the board still Pittman, Mims, Shenault, Claypool, Peoples, Hamler, Duvernay are all still on the board. Plenty of ILB's on the board, but can be addressed on day 3. IDL the best prospect still is not off the board, but ton of run stuffers will be there day 3. OL there are still prospects. TE not a must if you don't get Kmet early, but Kmet could fall as low as the 3rd meaning a few TE's will drop. They have a chance to build for the future and around Love while also building around Rodgers for the next few years. It is a move I think needed to be made not a lot of chances to get your future QB. Some teams will be reeling to find a guy, they have a plan.
    Well see what happens the next two days. Im just bummed that it seems like they probably never gonna push all their chips into the middle around Rodgers. Its not as if they still cant add some nice players in this draft but i believe what happened last night speaks to an overall mentality of yes they care about winning now but they also aren't gonna risk possibly jeopardizing the future by making too many big moves in the short term. That mentality can leave those 1-2 crucial holes unfilled that cause us to once again play a better team on the road in the playoffs. This roster was in PRIME shape to go all out and try to add those last missing pieces. Now you set yourself a round back in your efforts to build a winner in 2020.

    They were stagnant with the 2010 core, and they did it again with the 2014 core that was again so close. I always thought it was okay they didn't go all in with those groups if it meant that eventually one day they were gonna be in another prime position to do it, but once again punted the chance away this offseason. This roster needed only a few pieces and going after FA and the 1st round they've filled added zero of them. Its just tough man

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdh09e44 View Post
    Well see what happens the next two days. Im just bummed that it seems like they probably never gonna push all their chips into the middle around Rodgers. Its not as if they still cant add some nice players in this draft but i believe what happened last night speaks to an overall mentality of yes they care about winning now but they also aren't gonna risk possibly jeopardizing the future by making too many big moves in the short term. That mentality can leave those 1-2 crucial holes unfilled that cause us to once again play a better team on the road in the playoffs. This roster was in PRIME shape to go all out and try to add those last missing pieces. Now you set yourself a round back in your efforts to build a winner in 2020.

    They were stagnant with the 2010 core, and they did it again with the 2014 core that was again so close. I always thought it was okay they didn't go all in with those groups if it meant that eventually one day they were gonna be in another prime position to do it, but once again punted the chance away this offseason. This roster needed only a few pieces and going after FA and the 1st round they've filled added zero of them. Its just tough man
    Excatly. Rodgers isn't what he used to be, but we don't know what comes next. Even a league average Rodgers might be better than what comes next, even if you try to plan.

    We were a game from the super bowl. We just made a move that won't help us win a super bowl until 2023 at the very earliest, if ever. I just don't get it.

    And you need to fill spots. Even if the guy you get at 30 isn't a stud, it's a way to potentially get a stater for cheap and not having to sign guys. I wouldnt have loved it, but even staying put at 30 at taking Clyde Edwards Helaire could allow you to let Aaron Jones walk and not pay him. Or pittman means you can double up at DL or something later in this draft.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Excatly. Rodgers isn't what he used to be, but we don't know what comes next. Even a league average Rodgers might be better than what comes next, even if you try to plan.

    We were a game from the super bowl. We just made a move that won't help us win a super bowl until 2023 at the very earliest, if ever. I just don't get it.

    And you need to fill spots. Even if the guy you get at 30 isn't a stud, it's a way to potentially get a stater for cheap and not having to sign guys. I wouldnt have loved it, but even staying put at 30 at taking Clyde Edwards Helaire could allow you to let Aaron Jones walk and not pay him. Or pittman means you can double up at DL or something later in this draft.
    The pick was literally the one position that made no sense to draft. Even an IOL or hybrid safety made more sense.

  6. #36
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    In a big win for pre-draft rumors, the Packers’ interest in Jordan Love was quite real. But their trade-up to No. 26 did not fully illustrate how much the franchise coveted the Utah State product.

    The Packers had a deal worked out with the Seahawks, who picked at No. 27, but decided to climb up to 26 (via the Dolphins) to make the pick, Ian Rapoport of NFL.com notes (video link). This was not a case of the Packers changing course to take a falling quarterback; they were “adamant” on taking one, per Rapoport.

    While the Packers’ fascination with Love could have induced another team to trade ahead of them at No. 30, Rapoport adds that it does not look like anyone else was pursuing him in that range. The Colts did not make any calls to move up for Love, Rapoport notes. They ended up drafting Jacob Eason in Round 4. The Packers traded a fourth-round pick (No. 136) to climb up four spots for Love. The Seahawks ended up taking linebacker Jordyn Brooks at No. 27.


    Green Bay being able to execute the ultra-rare years-long developmental program before — when Aaron Rodgers developed from 2005-07 behind Brett Favre — has the franchise confident this latest effort can work. Rodgers, however, has made it clearer than Favre did at that point that he wants to play many more seasons. The 36-year-old passer has said on multiple occasions he wants to play into his 40s. The Love addition opens the door to the future Hall of Famer finishing his career elsewhere.

    Rodgers’ contract runs through 2023. His cap numbers spike beyond $36MM in 2021 and ’22. Although Love could be a star-in-training like Rodgers once was, the Packers keeping Rodgers during most of Love’s rookie contract will negate the potential benefit the organization would gain from that rookie deal. That has been a key roster-building tool for several Super Bowl teams since the 2011 CBA went into effect.
    profootballrumors.com

    if this is true this trade and pick are looking worse and worse. it did not appear anyone else was moving up to take Love and it was an overreaction of Gutey and LaFleur. This has the same feel as the Justin Harrell pick. there were "rumors" someone was going to move up and take him or was going to take him if the Packers didn't draft him so they went ahead and drafted him.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackerBum9786 View Post
    profootballrumors.com

    if this is true this trade and pick are looking worse and worse. it did not appear anyone else was moving up to take Love and it was an overreaction of Gutey and LaFleur. This has the same feel as the Justin Harrell pick. there were "rumors" someone was going to move up and take him or was going to take him if the Packers didn't draft him so they went ahead and drafted him.
    Well they better hope it works out

  8. #38
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    To me, love needs to develop into a top 10 or better qb for this pick to make sense. Even if he turns into an above average qb, those are easy enough to find that we should have taken a guy who could help now.

    That being said, now that he's a packer, I'm a big fan. The guy definitely has the traits to be a top 10 qb. He has a great arm and is athletic. I love that he has some moxy too. Throwing picks sucks, but watching years of Derek Carr types throwing check downs all game isn't fun either.

    He has pretty much all of the uncoachable traits. Most of his issues are coachable. The thing that scares me the most is alot of his picks had tunnel vision. He stared guys down and never saw the underneath coverage. That concerns me. In that regard, he's very Jamies Winston-esque. That's one of the traits I'm concerned most about. But if he can fix that and learn to go through progressions, he has a ton of upside. And he has time to do that.

  9. #39
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    With the picks I think they are more due to coach gone, team gone, scheme gone, etc. Both years prior he only threw 6 picks each season. Some is clearly decision making which needs to improve. Some is technique, but Lafleur is chalked up as a QB mechanics guy. I think the recognition will come by observing. Like you mention a handful of correctable things.

    I don't think he is on Winston's level in terms of decision making, but certainly needs work. Coming in Winston had 28 picks in two seasons. But he is a bit of a gunslinger in mentality thinking at time if the window is open an inch he can bomb it in.

  10. #40
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    In their careers, Jamies threw 65 TDs and 28 picks. Love threw 60 and 29. Jamies also averaged 2 yards per attempt more than love. Love had 2.5 or so seasons compared to Jamies 2, but Jamies only had 700 fewer yards on 300 less attempts.

    I know they had significantly different experiences. Jamies had a lot more talent than love but also played tougher competition. I think it's a fairly valid comp. Jamies hasn't really grown since he entered the league. Hopefully that isn't the case with love.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    In their careers, Jamies threw 65 TDs and 28 picks. Love threw 60 and 29. Jamies also averaged 2 yards per attempt more than love. Love had 2.5 or so seasons compared to Jamies 2, but Jamies only had 700 fewer yards on 300 less attempts.

    I know they had significantly different experiences. Jamies had a lot more talent than love but also played tougher competition. I think it's a fairly valid comp. Jamies hasn't really grown since he entered the league. Hopefully that isn't the case with love.
    Winston also didnt get a chance to sit and develop the way love will. That changes everything.

  12. #42
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    idk why i was watching fkin florio but what did this mean?

    https://youtu.be/dJxINJrENrs

    Starting At 6:27 he begins to talk about the new CBA changing something with 5th year options..”if you sit Love for 3 years…And he never plays..you are going to have the lowest possible price to keep him”

    If a player doesn't start a certain amount of games, his 5th year option price becomes lower?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdh09e44 View Post
    idk why i was watching fkin florio but what did this mean?

    https://youtu.be/dJxINJrENrs

    Starting At 6:27 he begins to talk about the new CBA changing something with 5th year options..”if you sit Love for 3 years…And he never plays..you are going to have the lowest possible price to keep him”

    If a player doesn't start a certain amount of games, his 5th year option price becomes lower?
    The price you pay for the play in the new CBA is incentive based now. Players who were right out the gate were locked in to lower deals. For example in this you make 2 pro bowls when the team exercises the 5th year they have to pay you the franchise tag rate. There are multiple tiers based on play time and quality. With Love presumably sitting 3-4 years they get him cheap on the fifth year. Then tiers is mostly performance based.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfishguy85 View Post
    Winston also didnt get a chance to sit and develop the way love will. That changes everything.
    Potentially yes. There's no real, concrete evidence that sitting actually does anything. Mahomes and rodgers both sat are obviously phenomenal, but plenty of other greats didn't sit.

    I think starting early absolutely runs the risk of ruining confidence of a young guy if he struggles. But I do also think there's an argument to be made that there's some things you can really only learn in the heat of the battle. I think Brett Hundley is an example of that. I have no doubt Hundley looked good in practice. Watching him, you can tell he was coached to do things and he did those things, it's all the rest of it that he struggled with. His foot work was fine. He progressed as you're supposed to go through progressions, it's just when you're actually playing, everything speeds up and there's real consequences to standing in the pocket.

  15. #45
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    I think I’m also a little shocked we picked a qb this year bc really I think next year the draft is stronger at QB. And Also the timing is better. I just still haven’t come to terms that JLO was the best option. One of the ILB I think was the better pick with the board we had. I could’ve understood if no WR was there at a good value the whole draft. But ILB would’ve made our team better. Jlo literally does nothing just us. Sorry. Beating the dead horse but still just frustrated

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