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  1. #136
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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector View Post
    Its well documented he was one of fastest CBs at Ohio State. Its game speed that counts and thats where he excels. How many CBs do you see line up in a sprint start on a play, thats right none. Yet start is the area most sprinters talk about as key to a great time. Its recovery speed i'm more interested in from a CB and this kid has it in bundles on tape.
    Yeah, I mentioned earlier that the starting stance and initial jump is not a typical movement for CBs . Maybe players on the line. So having that motion as part of the 40 time throws off the relation to game speed. And it looked like that was the part that Arnette was slower at.

    I mean for CBS, the best way might be to have them standing and facing the opposite direction, then turn and run, lol.

  3. #138
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    Way back in the early 90s I used to tell people that combine 40 times were horse crap since they were manually timed.

    Somehow I thought that since the combine was broadcast as an event, that they'd gone to some sort of electronic automated timing. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a laser beam trigger just past the start line?

    And it also never made sense to me to not have them run in pads. Or even with a ball. I remember back in the day there was a basketball player who was measured as faster on the court dribbling than he was just running.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by krsonekth View Post
    Here's the actual video, looks to me almost a quater of a second had gone by before he had even taken off.

    Had this video sent to me today. When the Raiders said that they clocked Damon Arnette in the low 4.4ís with their own watches, that wasnít just to save face.

    Arnette seemed to get an unfortunately quick trigger on the clock at the combine. Just something to take note of. pic.twitter.com/rW327ahKuK

    https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/st...00326732611587

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
    Way back in the early 90s I used to tell people that combine 40 times were horse crap since they were manually timed.

    Somehow I thought that since the combine was broadcast as an event, that they'd gone to some sort of electronic automated timing. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a laser beam trigger just past the start line?

    And it also never made sense to me to not have them run in pads. Or even with a ball. I remember back in the day there was a basketball player who was measured as faster on the court dribbling than he was just running.
    Damn... I hope great minds think alike. Iíve always thought the same thing about the pads. And I was going to suggest the same thing about starting the timer a yard in once they passed a laser. That way thereís no false start issues too.

  6. #141
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    Oct 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarOutIos View Post
    Damn... I hope great minds think alike. Iíve always thought the same thing about the pads. And I was going to suggest the same thing about starting the timer a yard in once they passed a laser. That way thereís no false start issues too.
    Yeah, the way they do it now they're introducing reaction time error for both the player and the time operator. I was really stunned to find out that they still haven't addressed this after all these years, I just assumed they had.

    For actual game purposes, in pads from a standing start is much more useful, and who really cares how fast they rise out of the block unless it's a lineman? But for linemen, the remaining 39 yards aren't nearly as important either. The whole thing just doesn't make sense.

    Now that I think about it, I'd put the 0 point as 1 yard out, and then do sensors at various intervals (every 5 yards or so). What you'd end up with is how fast they get to different distances, which will tell you which guys have great acceleration and which guys have higher top end speed. These days with technology it'd be super easy to set up.

    Throw in a 45-90 degree turn at the 20 yard mark and you get almost all the data you need for pass catchers, RBs, and DBs. You'd find the guys with "burst", you'd weed out the fast guys who are actually stiffs, and you'd also find out who truly has crazy speed.

    Perhaps some teams already do something like this in private workouts? If not they're stupid.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
    Yeah, the way they do it now they're introducing reaction time error for both the player and the time operator. I was really stunned to find out that they still haven't addressed this after all these years, I just assumed they had.

    For actual game purposes, in pads from a standing start is much more useful, and who really cares how fast they rise out of the block unless it's a lineman? But for linemen, the remaining 39 yards aren't nearly as important either. The whole thing just doesn't make sense.

    Now that I think about it, I'd put the 0 point as 1 yard out, and then do sensors at various intervals (every 5 yards or so). What you'd end up with is how fast they get to different distances, which will tell you which guys have great acceleration and which guys have higher top end speed. These days with technology it'd be super easy to set up.

    Throw in a 45-90 degree turn at the 20 yard mark and you get almost all the data you need for pass catchers, RBs, and DBs. You'd find the guys with "burst", you'd weed out the fast guys who are actually stiffs, and you'd also find out who truly has crazy speed.

    Perhaps some teams already do something like this in private workouts? If not they're stupid.
    They already have everything you've described, it's just not plastered everywhere like the 40yd dash is. They take 10- and 20-yd dash times (although I'm not sure if they're different events). The 3 cone drill has short sprints with changes of directions. The 20 yard shuttle measures acceleration/explosiveness.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
    Yeah, the way they do it now they're introducing reaction time error for both the player and the time operator. I was really stunned to find out that they still haven't addressed this after all these years, I just assumed they had.

    For actual game purposes, in pads from a standing start is much more useful, and who really cares how fast they rise out of the block unless it's a lineman? But for linemen, the remaining 39 yards aren't nearly as important either. The whole thing just doesn't make sense.

    Now that I think about it, I'd put the 0 point as 1 yard out, and then do sensors at various intervals (every 5 yards or so). What you'd end up with is how fast they get to different distances, which will tell you which guys have great acceleration and which guys have higher top end speed. These days with technology it'd be super easy to set up.

    Throw in a 45-90 degree turn at the 20 yard mark and you get almost all the data you need for pass catchers, RBs, and DBs. You'd find the guys with "burst", you'd weed out the fast guys who are actually stiffs, and you'd also find out who truly has crazy speed.

    Perhaps some teams already do something like this in private workouts? If not they're stupid.
    Iíve always thought they should do the 40 times back to back. Maybe a third time as well. Iíd like to see how a players stamina affects their speed over the course of a game. Now obviously. That might increase the chance if injury. So doubt it could ever happen.

  9. #144
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    Everyone seems to agree that his press man skills are top notch. WalterFootball.com had him rated as the no.6 cornerback ahead of Jaylon Johnson.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by erickench View Post
    Everyone seems to agree that his press man skills are top notch. WalterFootball.com had him rated as the no.6 cornerback ahead of Jaylon Johnson.
    good to see you coming around Erick I think you'll like this class at the end of the day

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by mberr View Post
    They already have everything you've described, it's just not plastered everywhere like the 40yd dash is. They take 10- and 20-yd dash times (although I'm not sure if they're different events). The 3 cone drill has short sprints with changes of directions. The 20 yard shuttle measures acceleration/explosiveness.
    The cone and shuttle drills do show short-area burst, but it's still different than what you often see for DBs/WRs, which is a guy running near full tilt 20 yards downfield, then having to suddenly change direction and explode 5 yards in a different direction when the pass is thrown. To me that's what separates the great corners from the ones who run fast but can't cover squat. I'll take the guy who runs a 4.5 who can break hard on the ball, over the guy who runs a 4.3 but is a tenth or so slower on change of direction.

    40 yard times just don't mean much in the context of actual football plays. I'd be more interested in their trap speed at 40 yards (for top end speed) because it eliminates reaction time and clock starting issues. It's like measuring 1/4 mile times at the drag strip ... it's largely influenced by reaction times. But you can't fake the trap speed, which can be used as a close approximation of HP.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
    The cone and shuttle drills do show short-area burst, but it's still different than what you often see for DBs/WRs, which is a guy running near full tilt 20 yards downfield, then having to suddenly change direction and explode 5 yards in a different direction when the pass is thrown. To me that's what separates the great corners from the ones who run fast but can't cover squat. I'll take the guy who runs a 4.5 who can break hard on the ball, over the guy who runs a 4.3 but is a tenth or so slower on change of direction.

    40 yard times just don't mean much in the context of actual football plays. I'd be more interested in their trap speed at 40 yards (for top end speed) because it eliminates reaction time and clock starting issues. It's like measuring 1/4 mile times at the drag strip ... it's largely influenced by reaction times. But you can't fake the trap speed, which can be used as a close approximation of HP.
    CB hardest position to play in the modern NFL. You can cover a guy step for step but if there's any contact before the ball arrives refs likely to flag it and if you get physical refs likely to call unsportsmanlike. WR easiest position to play in the modern NFL

  13. #148
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    The 40 speed doesn't tell all. That's why you have guys that are "slower" become more successful than the quicker guys. I could see that on kick coverage.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector View Post
    CB hardest position to play in the modern NFL. You can cover a guy step for step but if there's any contact before the ball arrives refs likely to flag it and if you get physical refs likely to call unsportsmanlike. WR easiest position to play in the modern NFL
    Doubt.

  15. #150
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    Arnette is fun to watch.. I still go on record saying he is better than Okuhdah..... We here in Ohio compare him to Latimore (new orleans). He will be runner up ROY to Young.
    Dogdaddy

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