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  1. #736
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    This is so sad. I can’t believe we can’t unite on this.

    We are so incredibly tribal.

  2. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Unemployment is already bolstered a LOT. To the point that I saw a couple articles that say a large number of people on unemployment are making considerably more than when they were working.

    What is different today than 3 months ago? Three months of economic pain. The same reason most strikes end ... lack of money makes people desperate. In this case there is also the real psychological strain of people staying at home.
    I'm talking about protections for people who will be forced to return to work, people that have conditions or illnesses that make them vunerablento theis disease. I know I know they arent forced. They could just quit and starve.

    The economic pain isnt going to magically vanish because we re-open. You are going to find a large swath of the population that voluntarily continue stay at home. As hot spots form around the country, some places will have to go back into lockdown. I have yet to see anything that says that this doesnt just prolong the suffering. I have yet to really see any argument short of sacrifice people for the economy or we are really really bored because we cant golf.

  3. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Serious question ... how is Trump to blame for the CDC screwing up? The lack of supplies was not primarily on Trump when the reserves were exhausted in 2009 and not restocked then when they should have been. Mixed messages is the nature of modern life, and anybody watching politicians talk are not looking to the right people for advice. Fringe groups are always stupid or they wouldn't be "fringe", and they don't need to be emboldened to act on their stupid.

    Trump could have done better I don't doubt, but a lot of the stuff blamed on him is just stupid. If Trump was a dictator and had all the power then we could blame him for a lot more, but the reality is he has little power to solve the real issues we've been dealing with.
    He could have nailed it by just telling the truth. Flips is right, he wasted a massive opportunity politically. As sick as it sounds, this is what politicians live for. He could have put his face on mt. Rushmore and bungled it to high holy hell.

  4. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    How can he be wrong about predicting something in the future we don't know the answer to yet.

    yes countries are different, but that doesn't mean you can't compare them.

    And do you really not think Trump could have done any better?
    No one can say since this is a unique event that is unprecedented in modern times. Could have done better. Could have done worse.

    We botched testing from the get go. The CDC created something that didn't work. and took weeks to fix.
    Whose fault was thye CDC failed tests????


    We ran out of supplies that he could have ordered (and still could order) companies to make.
    He was able to get companies to make items when he had to do it. Using the production act to order people to do something looks dictatorial (and that is how it would have been presented). Better to get companies to act on their own.

    We have been given mixed messages about what to do.
    This is true. But he also got mixed estimates from the "experts." Fauci has been wrong more than once and he is looked at as if her were a God.


    Fringe groups have been emboldened to run around with guns.
    This is true.

    Seriously... you're feverish.
    Seriously…you suffer from tunnel vision. It's all get Trump all the time and you are buying into it.

    Do you remember how people rallied around GW when 9/11 happened? This could have been that for Trump.
    I think Trump's base has rallied around him as well. His opponents have picked apart everything, every day.

  5. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    This is so sad. I can’t believe we can’t unite on this.
    I can.

  6. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    This is so sad. I can’t believe we can’t unite on this.

    We are so incredibly tribal.
    We can.

    Just look at the point we are at and unite on that. Pulling apart everything trump says doesn't help. Going agaunst everything Trump does doesn't help.

    Everyone needs to pull together.

    Why do almost all the governors/mayors open/do no open points of view seem to fall i strictly on party lines? It's like "don't worry about the economy, just get Trump." And all those people wanting to keep the shut down in effect…they all get paid their top dollar salaries/benefits. They're not losing anything. People are more afraid of their income and future than they are of the virus.

    Reps want to re-convene congress, dems do not because of the virus. It was recommended having the congressionals use whatever the quickie test is and the dems come back with they don't want to take the machines away from thew general public. Really…20-30 machines out of the stock pile would have done the job and they come up with that? They don't want to go back. They want this mess to continue because it looks bad for the admin and dem followers are too stupid to figure that out.

  7. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    We can.

    Just look at the point we are at and unite on that. Pulling apart everything trump says doesn't help. Going agaunst everything Trump does doesn't help.

    Everyone needs to pull together.

    Why do almost all the governors/mayors open/do no open points of view seem to fall i strictly on party lines? It's like "don't worry about the economy, just get Trump." And all those people wanting to keep the shut down in effect…they all get paid their top dollar salaries/benefits. They're not losing anything. People are more afraid of their income and future than they are of the virus.

    Reps want to re-convene congress, dems do not because of the virus. It was recommended having the congressionals use whatever the quickie test is and the dems come back with they don't want to take the machines away from thew general public. Really…20-30 machines out of the stock pile would have done the job and they come up with that? They don't want to go back. They want this mess to continue because it looks bad for the admin and dem followers are too stupid to figure that out.
    The current POTUS attacked the last one with birthirism to gain support. You don't actually care about this attacking nature you whine about when it is at Trump, in fact you defend the most consistent person in the history of our presidency to attack others in such fashion.

    He has screwed up our response in multiple ways and most of them involve playing political games and not taking it seriously. We had a ton of time to respond initially, nothing but downplaying it against the experts. We had time to react and get going on needed supplies but lacked overall coordination and did not use the power/authority he had to do so. Encouraging people with things like the "liberate" BS when those states are following the guidelines laid out, he is advocating for chaos during a pandemic.

    Everyone needs to pull together, the first step would be admitting exactly who this POTUS is instead of constantly defending him with standards you never apply to his own actions/words.

  8. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    The current POTUS attacked the last one with birthirism to gain support. You don't actually care about this attacking nature you whine about when it is at Trump, in fact you defend the most consistent person in the history of our presidency to attack others in such fashion.

    He has screwed up our response in multiple ways and most of them involve playing political games and not taking it seriously. We had a ton of time to respond initially, nothing but downplaying it against the experts. We had time to react and get going on needed supplies but lacked overall coordination and did not use the power/authority he had to do so. Encouraging people with things like the "liberate" BS when those states are following the guidelines laid out, he is advocating for chaos during a pandemic.

    Everyone needs to pull together, the first step would be admitting exactly who this POTUS is instead of constantly defending him with standards you never apply to his own actions/words.
    Para 1…Wrong. I have criticized Trump's style numerous times. It is absolutely awful. Re: birthism…he wasn't the fiorst to question this. Many did and I haven't heard this from Trump in quite awhile. RE: Obama…Trump is wrong to keep bringing up BO as much as he does…and I have said this numerous times before. It's how he is. I don't like that any more than you do.

    Para 2…screwed up response in multiple ways??? Give me a break here. No matter when he responded, people like you would come back with it should have been sooner. Info from the "experts"changed almost daily. Fauci's numbers were so far off as to be laughable. The stockpile was bare before he got there. He didn't just empty the warehouses. They were already depleted. Lacked overall coordination…like not giving Cuomo the 30,000 respirators and millions of masks he didn't need? And the hospital ship that wasn't required.? (You never seem to hear a word about Cuomo requesting 3X what was needed.) He got industries to ramp up without being a dictator.

    It is a bad situation, no question about it. Trump has done OK under the circumstances. We don't know if anyone could have done better.

  9. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Para 1…Wrong. I have criticized Trump's style numerous times. It is absolutely awful. Re: birthism…he wasn't the fiorst to question this. Many did and I haven't heard this from Trump in quite awhile. RE: Obama…Trump is wrong to keep bringing up BO as much as he does…and I have said this numerous times before. It's how he is. I don't like that any more than you do.

    Para 2…screwed up response in multiple ways??? Give me a break here. No matter when he responded, people like you would come back with it should have been sooner. Info from the "experts"changed almost daily. Fauci's numbers were so far off as to be laughable. The stockpile was bare before he got there. He didn't just empty the warehouses. They were already depleted. Lacked overall coordination…like not giving Cuomo the 30,000 respirators and millions of masks he didn't need? And the hospital ship that wasn't required.? (You never seem to hear a word about Cuomo requesting 3X what was needed.) He got industries to ramp up without being a dictator.

    It is a bad situation, no question about it. Trump has done OK under the circumstances. We don't know if anyone could have done better.
    1. Exactly, others like Fox and so on were also on board with this. The obvious point here is that the POTUS always has to deal with morons being ridiculous. Trump was one of those morons when it was not him in office doing this type of thing. It's showing that there are actual insane things to criticize a POTUS for (like what is being done with Trump on a regular basis on how he handles being POTUS0 and attacks like this. You whine when people are largely pointing out obvious bad things Trump has done and pretend it is something like this. Most of the time it is not when you read what people are actually saying.

    2. LOL this is the entire point of 1 which you missed. Some people will alway criticize the POTUS over dumb things, it gets far more ridiculous than calling out handling of matters he is responsible for (and can just come down to identity). If he had listened to the experts, taken it seriously instead of the political games, not tried to downplay it, not attacked places or riles up the extremes when other states were following guidelines etc. then a lot of the criticism he has received would not be the same. I have actually criticized Cuomo in another thread when someone else tried to butwhatabout, this is the point lol. People have no issue criticizing some but whine non stop when it is Trump for far more valid reasoning.

    Trump has done pretty poorly imo, we do know people could have done better just by taking it seriously and following experts (other countries have had more success with their response). We don't know specifically X person and so on would be better but if you are able to see who Trump is and what he has been doing throughout then it should be pretty obvious someone who believes in science/isn't trying to rile up sides would have done much better by acting reasonable/based on data and not politically divisive.

  10. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    1. Exactly, others like Fox and so on were also on board with this. The obvious point here is that the POTUS always has to deal with morons being ridiculous. Trump was one of those morons when it was not him in office doing this type of thing. It's showing that there are actual insane things to criticize a POTUS for (like what is being done with Trump on a regular basis on how he handles being POTUS0 and attacks like this. You whine when people are largely pointing out obvious bad things Trump has done and pretend it is something like this. Most of the time it is not when you read what people are actually saying.

    2. LOL this is the entire point of 1 which you missed. Some people will alway criticize the POTUS over dumb things, it gets far more ridiculous than calling out handling of matters he is responsible for (and can just come down to identity). If he had listened to the experts, taken it seriously instead of the political games, not tried to downplay it, not attacked places or riles up the extremes when other states were following guidelines etc. then a lot of the criticism he has received would not be the same. I have actually criticized Cuomo in another thread when someone else tried to butwhatabout, this is the point lol. People have no issue criticizing some but whine non stop when it is Trump for far more valid reasoning.

    Trump has done pretty poorly imo, we do know people could have done better just by taking it seriously and following experts (other countries have had more success with their response). We don't know specifically X person and so on would be better but if you are able to see who Trump is and what he has been doing throughout then it should be pretty obvious someone who believes in science/isn't trying to rile up sides would have done much better by acting reasonable/based on data and not politically divisive.
    1. All I ever said was show the president some support. Many do not and it is a flat out refusal.

    2. If he had listened to the experts, taken it seriously ……the 'experts have been proven wrong more than once. And as far as playing politics…look at some of the delays in the funding. The Kennedy Center??? Where did that come from.And now state bailouts for states that were in trouble (over absurd union benefits) from before the virus. Where did that come from.

    Para 3.…Your opinion. Do not vote for him. Where does this "Trump does not believe in science" bs come from?? Science is one aspect of what is going on…and that's all the science crowd sees. There is the economic side of this, the people side of this etc. There is far more to all of this than just "science."

  11. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    1. All I ever said was show the president some support. Many do not and it is a flat out refusal.

    2. If he had listened to the experts, taken it seriously ……the 'experts have been proven wrong more than once. And as far as playing politics…look at some of the delays in the funding. The Kennedy Center??? Where did that come from.And now state bailouts for states that were in trouble (over absurd union benefits) from before the virus. Where did that come from.

    Para 3.…Your opinion. Do not vote for him. Where does this "Trump does not believe in science" bs come from?? Science is one aspect of what is going on…and that's all the science crowd sees. There is the economic side of this, the people side of this etc. There is far more to all of this than just "science."
    1. We shouldn't blindly support bad things, that is what people are constantly calling out. When someone is doing bad things, acting in a bad manner, attacking others and so on you don't just blindly support that lol. That is exactly what Fox/CNN are designed to do get people blindly supporting sides/their teams guy.

    2. What do you mean by the experts have been proven wrong? If you mean this is a pandemic that is changing and we are constantly getting new data then I agree they have updated guidelines based on what we know at the time/based on current data. What I am saying is that when we have an outline based on those experts and the data don't support those attacking their governments for following the protocol with his liberate BS. When they initially were pointing to a problem don't make it a political game and downplay it as if it will go away etc.

    I never once said ignore economics and that is part of the issue over and over topic to topic. It is why many feel capitalism (at least our version) is very very flawed. The obvious answer here is we need to use the science and data to come up with a long term approach to minimize casualties and effects on the population, including their economic stability. This is not a fight between dem/rep, science vs economy and so on but that is how we are treating it like we do most topics. That is not the fault of Trump but he is playing into that game harder than any POTUS I have seen before.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 05-05-2020 at 02:17 PM.

  12. #747
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    Anyone who is trying to discourage things like social distancing needs to understand they are culpable in the further spread. If a news network like Fox does that, then they should be legally held accountable.
    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    the delays of the courts needs to end at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    And if people got **** counsel, well they had to die so the court could move faster…but tell me again how pro-life you are!
    I was told there would be pro-life! Not pro-death!

  13. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Anyone who is trying to discourage things like social distancing needs to understand they are culpable in the further spread. If a news network like Fox does that, then they should be legally held accountable.
    Has FOX News (GASP!) actually come out against social distancing????

  14. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    1. All I ever said was show the president some support. Many do not and it is a flat out refusal.

    2. If he had listened to the experts, taken it seriously ……the 'experts have been proven wrong more than once. And as far as playing politics…look at some of the delays in the funding. The Kennedy Center??? Where did that come from.And now state bailouts for states that were in trouble (over absurd union benefits) from before the virus. Where did that come from.

    Para 3.…Your opinion. Do not vote for him. Where does this "Trump does not believe in science" bs come from?? Science is one aspect of what is going on…and that's all the science crowd sees. There is the economic side of this, the people side of this etc. There is far more to all of this than just "science."
    I think there's 2 parts of this "Listening to the experts" take, and you are highlighting just 1 part to help your defense.

    While sure the science part of the disease has changed, making many statements made by scientist contradictory in many realms. I believe what many others are referring to was 1 and only 1 simple message coming from the scientist as early as January, which was "THIS IS COMING, PREPARE TO DEAL WITH IT."

    That message was pretty well known to be ignored for weeks leading up to the March 16th "15-day plan."

  15. #750
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    A mutant coronavirus has emerged, even more contagious than the original, study says

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-...ys/ar-BB13CHNP

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