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  1. #6991
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    I think what you're really saying is that opinions shouldn't be catered to....unless they are your opinions.
    Which opinion of mine should be catered to?

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  2. #6992
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I'm not pushing my opinion on essential, I am responding to people calling it non essential as a fact by saying that's simply an opinion and I can just as easily call it essential. Many people consider it to be such.

    This is why I say opinions shouldn't be catered to, stats should.

    Alright, well isnt closing it down to begin with already a matter of opinion. Why does this opinion trump that opinion?

    That's why I was asking what objevtive measures were used to determine which list each entity belongs in. But it seems as tho no objective measures were used, only subjective.

    Which gives the church's argument that much more credibility, imo.

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    Except you are arguing to cater to opinions lol. That is the point you have an opinion and want it catered to over public health expert/local governments and restrictions based on risk factor/service etc. and for others to just accept that because... It's your opinion.

    There is no one set objective measure and each spot in this country might be different so it's always going to come down to that. Again health experts, local governments should consider risk... This doesn't need to all be covered again.

  3. #6993
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Ok. If that special treatment poses no health risk to the public, why does it bother you?

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    You're operating from a false starting point. Special treatment for churches does pose a public health risk, regardless of what your zany opinion on the matter is. Churches, along with every other type of business, should have to abide by strict public health measures during a pandemic....and I'm sure many of them are. Unfortunately, there are also many whose leaders don't mandate mask wearing (and in fact, actively discourage it) and instead rely on nothing but faith to keep them safe. The ole' "when it's my time to go, it's my time to go" and "I trust the Lord to protect me" sort of mindset, if not flat out denial of scientific research. If our actions didn't affect those around us, I guess this approach could be seen as quite a bit more acceptable. Unfortunately, that's not how things work and we are in the heat of a deadly pandemic revolving around an airborne virus with no vaccine. The fact that you pretend to be this master of science yet can't grasp any of this only further shows how out of your element you are.

  4. #6994
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Ok. If that special treatment poses no health risk to the public, why does it bother you?

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    It does create more risk. You were just talking about not catering to opinions over... Nevermind. You don't care about hypocrisy and jumping all over the place. I have no idea why someone might have issue with us starting to pick and choose groups in this country to give special treatment ignoring health experts/safety restrictions/local governments and potentially putting others at risk to do so. Based some peoples opinions/personal bias.

  5. #6995
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    But that comprehensive plan was no based on objective measure or fact, as far as I have seen that plan was initially based on opinion, nothing more.

    So if opinion is what is used to deem it non essential, does it not make sense that the opposite opinion would try to push their opinion over the opposing opinion?

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    It's the opinions of health experts, doctors, and scientists that matters here. Not the opinion of religious people that simply miss the pre-pandemic version of church they were used to. We all have certain social activities that are important to us that we've had to put on pause or make major compromises on this year.

  6. #6996
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Which opinion of mine should be catered to?

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    Absolutely none of them.

  7. #6997
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Except you are arguing to cater to opinions lol. That is the point you have an opinion and want it catered to over public health expert/local governments and restrictions based on risk factor/service etc. and for others to just accept that because... It's your opinion.

    There is no one set objective measure and each spot in this country might be different so it's always going to come down to that. Again health experts, local governments should consider risk... This doesn't need to all be covered again.
    No, I am saying rather than cater to opinions we should cater to covid spread. This way no ones opinion is catered to over someone else's, not yours, not theirs, not the local govt.

    One thing you're not addressing is the fact that the initial list is based on opinion. This is why I asked that if a local govt deems church essential would you support it. Because any given local govt could have initially deemed church essential based on their initial opinion.

    If NY initially deemed church to be essential would you support that decision, or would you support the blowback to it?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  8. #6998
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    It does create more risk. You were just talking about not catering to opinions over... Nevermind. You don't care about hypocrisy and jumping all over the place. I have no idea why someone might have issue with us starting to pick and choose groups in this country to give special treatment ignoring health experts/safety restrictions/local governments and potentially putting others at risk to do so. Based some peoples opinions/personal bias.
    I said IF it doesn't create more risk. I asked you a hypothetical situation.

    What's your answer to that hypothetical question?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  9. #6999
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    But that comprehensive plan was no based on objective measure or fact, as far as I have seen that plan was initially based on opinion, nothing more.

    So if opinion is what is used to deem it non essential, does it not make sense that the opposite opinion would try to push their opinion over the opposing opinion?

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    What is the plan that is objective measure or fact in which businesses/organizations/activities to have X level of restrictions based on X factors of risk and spread... Go ahead, I am curious what that "objective measure" would be and how it would be enforced everywhere. It wasn't just one persons opinion it was a comprehensive plan with input from health experts for the areas based on different levels of risk.

    I mean sure, fanatics will always want special treatment for their things. One of the bigger issues is the SCOTUS, again this isn't just about churches/religion for most of us. This is a reversal essentially of two previous rulings on similar cases. It's that it was ruled illegal to have/enforce that other opinion that are be based in part on risk factors/public safety. That is the real issue here.

  10. #7000
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I said IF it doesn't create more risk. I asked you a hypothetical situation.

    What's your answer to that hypothetical question?

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    Why should anyone answer your ridiculous hypotheticals when you can't even answer simple and relevant questions, let alone keep up with the conversation at hand?

  11. #7001
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    It's the opinions of health experts, doctors, and scientists that matters here. Not the opinion of religious people that simply miss the pre-pandemic version of church they were used to. We all have certain social activities that are important to us that we've had to put on pause or make major compromises on this year.
    What are the health experts, doctors and scientists basing their opinion on?

    If a local county in Missouri has their local health experts, doctors, and scientists conclude that church should be classified as essential, would you agree with them?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  12. #7002
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    What is the plan that is objective measure or fact in which businesses/organizations/activities to have X level of restrictions based on X factors of risk and spread... Go ahead, I am curious what that "objective measure" would be and how it would be enforced everywhere. It wasn't just one persons opinion it was a comprehensive plan with input from health experts for the areas based on different levels of risk.
    .
    As I already mentioned, i expected that some sort of spread coefficient would be used to calculate risks and spread. You have to use math, this is a statistical problem we are dealing with. The answers must be based on predictive statistical models.



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  13. #7003
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    No, I am saying rather than cater to opinions we should cater to covid spread. This way no ones opinion is catered to over someone else's, not yours, not theirs, not the local govt.

    One thing you're not addressing is the fact that the initial list is based on opinion. This is why I asked that if a local govt deems church essential would you support it. Because any given local govt could have initially deemed church essential based on their initial opinion.

    If NY initially deemed church to be essential would you support that decision, or would you support the blowback to it?

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    Everything is going to be based on opinion in this lol. The point is it is a comprehensive plan with expert opinion being given for the benefit of the community. We can't govern without basing it on opinions lol. Not everyone's opinions will be the same and each area will be different so many outcomes can arise. Basing it off expert opinion with government aiming for public safety is better than basing it on groups wanting special treatment.

    I wouldn't overly care if that's what they decided best in their plan.

  14. #7004
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I said IF it doesn't create more risk. I asked you a hypothetical situation.

    What's your answer to that hypothetical question?

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    In a hypothetical where you can do things with no risk I would just open everything up and still not give special treatment.

  15. #7005
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    As I already mentioned, i expected that some sort of spread coefficient would be used to calculate risks and spread. You have to use math, this is a statistical problem we are dealing with. The answers must be based on predictive statistical models.



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    How do you even know exactly what these people used in their determinations?

    We know that the counter so far is opinion based on special treatment towards one specific group.

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