Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 466 of 1147 FirstFirst ... 366416456464465466467468476516566966 ... LastLast
Results 6,976 to 6,990 of 17194
  1. #6976
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    38,626
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    You also explained how one persons opinion on this shouldn't be the end all be all. I also have been explaining for a while now how your opinions are irrelevant to the case at hand (unless you are claiming they are the end all).

    So which is it? I am not the one stating my opinion makes one essential and others not, that's you.

    If a different area has churches not under this label that is fine with me. My stance has been local government and health experts should be able to make comprehensive plans/restrictions on business based on many things like service provided, risk factors and general public health in mind during this time.
    One person's opinion shouldn't be the be all end all, that's why I have been saying my take is we shouldn't be catering to opinions, we should be catering to the statistics of the spread.

    I see, so if a local govt deems church essential then you agree with it? If they take into account service provided, risk factor, and general public health into account, and in doing so they deem church essential, then you agree with them?



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  2. #6977
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,041
    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    My personal belief is that my concern is in regards to the gym opening, not the mosque. I jumped in this convo notnbecause I am passionate about it, but because you guys think your opinions are facts. They're not. They're opinions.

    Your opinion is that church isnt essential. Many people disagree. But you just assume your opinion to be the correct answer. When given reasons as to why people view church as essential, you dismiss them as if your opinion trumps theirs. It doesn't. My take is who cares about opinions, let's cater to the actual science.

    You are showing instances of churches not following essential business guideline as proof that churches cause spread. Yes they do, but that has nothing to do with being labeled essential or not.

    Would you approach restaurant the same way. If I can pick out examples of restaurant not following distance guidelines, will you turn agree that the science says all restaurants must close? If not, then why do you do so with churches?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Seriously. Dude is wildly inconsistent....and not solely on this topic. There is so little logic being displayed that it almost feels like he just throws a bunch of words in to a "random reply generator" and posts whatever it spits out.
    For whatever reason, he sluggo and special get me to respond despite me knowing there is no point.

  3. #6978
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    38,626
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    You still have no idea the discussion lol. You seriously need to stop making up arguments and actually read what has been posted. I have no issue with churches being open in other places nor am I complaining about every business that goes against my opinion on what should be done. The only one overly focused on their opinion has been you pushing yours. In that you have been the hypocrite because you are fighting so hard for the essential label on churches but not all the other businesses that still won't have the label. You have been the one singling out one aspect here and not applying it across the board.

    My standard is that local government with health experts can come up with comprehensive plans based on risk factors/services/community health in mind placing restrictions on business/organizations/social gatherings. I won't agree with all of them but I think that is in the public interest. Where I have an issue is singling out one type of organization like Churches as exempt from this. As more important than any others out there and forced to have different restrictions based not on risk factors/services/community health with expert advice included but instead based on some peoples personal opinions. If a bowling alley were doing this and SCOTUS were ruling in their favor that would be an issue. If somewhere has restrictions on all business being 25% capacity and restaurants fight to be the only places allowed at 100% I would disagree with ruling that it was illegal to give them the same restrictions as others too but I haven't seen that. I don't think restaurants should be immune to restrictions either.
    But you have an issue with churches being open in purple zones or whatever. And you also do with indoor dining, correct?

    I'm talking about church because that was theconvo, I have stated I support any industry that can safely operate to be allowed to operate under that stage protocol.

    The thing you dont seem to take into account is that it is very possible to take risk factors, services, and community health into account and deem church essential. Your opinion is that it isnt with these things taken into account, but your opinion is not fact.

    I asked earlier what measures were used for classification, I was expecting some type of spread coefficient to be used, but apparently it's all just subjective opinion. If actual data were somehow used for classification, it would minimize what is opinion and what is objective fact.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  4. #6979
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    38,626
    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    For whatever reason, he sluggo and special get me to respond despite me knowing there is no point.
    lol, it's funny how different we see things..

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  5. #6980
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    12,973
    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    One person's opinion shouldn't be the be all end all, that's why I have been saying my take is we shouldn't be catering to opinions, we should be catering to the statistics of the spread.

    I see, so if a local govt deems church essential then you agree with it? If they take into account service provided, risk factor, and general public health into account, and in doing so they deem church essential, then you agree with them?



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Well it's interesting you keep pushing you opinion on essential so hard then when it isn't overly meaningful.

    I don't necessarily agree with tons of restrictions in place now but I don't have an issue with them for the most part either. If they are based in consistent standards, factoring risk and service etc. then it would be alright with me sure. I am not saying Churches NEED to be essential or non essential, I have my own opinion but I do on restaurants too (should be takeout not what they are). The issue is when special treatment/labels are forced outside of using this type of standard/public health and local community look for a specific group/organization based on what mostly appears to be personal opinion.

  6. #6981
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    12,973
    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    But you have an issue with churches being open in purple zones or whatever. And you also do with indoor dining, correct?

    I'm talking about church because that was theconvo, I have stated I support any industry that can safely operate to be allowed to operate under that stage protocol.

    The thing you dont seem to take into account is that it is very possible to take risk factors, services, and community health into account and deem church essential. Your opinion is that it isnt with these things taken into account, but your opinion is not fact.

    I asked earlier what measures were used for classification, I was expecting some type of spread coefficient to be used, but apparently it's all just subjective opinion. If actual data were somehow used for classification, it would minimize what is opinion and what is objective fact.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I personally would not want indoor dining nor churches to have in person service (well maybe with extreme limits) if we are talking about the most extreme hit areas/high risk spots or outbreaks.

    It is the special treatment being given to them that's the problem not the churches themselves.

    Sure one could possibly do that, I was just talking about how that is fine with me if it is done and consistent etc. I am stating that decision should be based on health experts, comprehensive plans, local governments like was done in NY. I never said this wasn't possible you just aren't following along, they could be essential but in this case they weren't in that analysis.

    You are the one trying to just push subjective opinion. Others are talking about real life scenarios that happened and are not opinions of anyone here but an actual example of a comprehensive plan that labeled them non essential. It's not based on opinion that is the reality of the plan in that area and you have been arguing solely with subjective opinion against it.

  7. #6982
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    62,133
    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    For whatever reason, he sluggo and special get me to respond despite me knowing there is no point.
    Everyone loves a good train wreck.

  8. #6983
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    62,133
    I think part of it is when you see someone post this kind of completely out there nonsense, it's natural to feel like not responding to it is kind of normalizing it in away. Like you want to let it be known that not only do you not agree but that the person is out of their frickin' mind (even though deep down you know it's a complete waste of time).

    Odd phenomenon indeed.

  9. #6984
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    America
    Posts
    102,808
    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    See, these aren't even objective measures, these subjective.

    "As cities and states continue to shut down their nonessential businesses, what is considered essential will likely vary based on the needs of each location. But businesses that people rely on in everyday life will largely remain open.
    Nonessential businesses are generally recreational in nature.*"

    Maybe there are no objective measures, I dont know. If that's the case, then doesn't that lend even more credence to them attempting to be defined as essential, since it is very much a matter of opinion?


    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    There is some room for local and state governments to make slightly different decisions for sure. But there is no argument that a religious service is necessary in one county or state and isnít in another.

    Iím sorry there just isnít a good argument for it being essential. Nobody will die, suffer, or be anything more than inconvenienced if they are shut down or limited during a pandemic or some other national emergency. Not one solitary soul.

  10. #6985
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    38,626
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Well it's interesting you keep pushing you opinion on essential so hard then when it isn't overly meaningful.

    I don't necessarily agree with tons of restrictions in place now but I don't have an issue with them for the most part either. If they are based in consistent standards, factoring risk and service etc. then it would be alright with me sure. I am not saying Churches NEED to be essential or non essential, I have my own opinion but I do on restaurants too (should be takeout not what they are). The issue is when special treatment/labels are forced outside of using this type of standard/public health and local community look for a specific group/organization based on what mostly appears to be personal opinion.
    I'm not pushing my opinion on essential, I am responding to people calling it non essential as a fact by saying that's simply an opinion and I can just as easily call it essential. Many people consider it to be such.

    This is why I say opinions shouldn't be catered to, stats should.

    Alright, well isnt closing it down to begin with already a matter of opinion. Why does this opinion trump that opinion?

    That's why I was asking what objevtive measures were used to determine which list each entity belongs in. But it seems as tho no objective measures were used, only subjective.

    Which gives the church's argument that much more credibility, imo.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  11. #6986
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    38,626
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post

    It is the special treatment being given to them that's the problem not the churches themselves.

    Sure one could possibly do that, I was just talking about how that is fine with me if it is done and consistent etc. I am stating that decision should be based on health experts, comprehensive plans, local governments like was done in NY.
    Ok. If that special treatment poses no health risk to the public, why does it bother you?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  12. #6987
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    America
    Posts
    102,808
    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I'm not pushing my opinion on essential, I am responding to people calling it non essential as a fact by saying that's simply an opinion and I can just as easily call it essential. Many people consider it to be such.

    This is why I say opinions shouldn't be catered to, stats should.

    Alright, well isnt closing it down to begin with already a matter of opinion. Why does this opinion trump that opinion?

    That's why I was asking what objevtive measures were used to determine which list each entity belongs in. But it seems as tho no objective measures were used, only subjective.

    Which gives the church's argument that much more credibility, imo.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I can call a cat a cactus. But that doesnít make it so. The legal criteria that Iíve provided make it clear that under no jurisdiction or government entity can religious institutions qualify for essential services. They just canít.

  13. #6988
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    38,626
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post

    You are the one trying to just push subjective opinion. Others are talking about real life scenarios that happened and are not opinions of anyone here but an actual example of a comprehensive plan that labeled them non essential. It's not based on opinion that is the reality of the plan in that area and you have been arguing solely with subjective opinion against it.
    But that comprehensive plan was no based on objective measure or fact, as far as I have seen that plan was initially based on opinion, nothing more.

    So if opinion is what is used to deem it non essential, does it not make sense that the opposite opinion would try to push their opinion over the opposing opinion?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  14. #6989
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    62,133
    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I'm not pushing my opinion on essential, I am responding to people calling it non essential as a fact by saying that's simply an opinion and I can just as easily call it essential. Many people consider it to be such.

    This is why I say opinions shouldn't be catered to, stats should.

    Alright, well isnt closing it down to begin with already a matter of opinion. Why does this opinion trump that opinion?

    That's why I was asking what objevtive measures were used to determine which list each entity belongs in. But it seems as tho no objective measures were used, only subjective.

    Which gives the church's argument that much more credibility, imo.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I think what you're really saying is that opinions shouldn't be catered to....unless they are your opinions.

  15. #6990
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    38,626
    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The legal criteria that Iíve provided make it clear that under no jurisdiction or government entity can religious institutions qualify for essential services. They just canít.
    But the legal criteria you referenced is in of itself an opinion. It's based on subjective definitions, not objective measures.

    So when you work your way back, it is still simply an opinion.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •