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  1. #1
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    Democratic imagine problem

    We touched on this in other threads. I think the party has an imagine problem. It seems they have lost appeal with middle America and a lot of blue collar workers. Is this bc of imagine or policy? Why, is it something they need to fix, and if so how?

    I think a lot of middle America sees the Democrats as the party of political correctness and cancel culture. I don’t think this is fair. Joe Biden can’t stop a twitter mob or companies from bowing down to them. At the same time I think they played into this after “me to” with the Judge and that Al Franklin guy . I am not sure how they fix this. Running people with military backgrounds seems to play well but its a tough label to shed.

    The socialism thing also gets play but I really don’t think most Republicans think Democrats are socialist. it’s like when people used to refer to things as gay. They really weren’t calling it homosexual. I think the Dems would well be served to start call election interference, and wealth concentration socialist etc.


    Idk what are your thoughts


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  2. #2
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    You're right. The Democratic Party at large has focused so staunchly on appealing to specific types of people, minorities, suburban woman, college graduates, that their messaging is almost completely identity politics as opposed to campaigning on policy. While I'm sure that way of campaigning has helped them win over specific voters, it really hurts them everywhere else. Identity politics doesn't resonate with middle America, older, and lower educated voters, policy does. They care about how they can pay their bills and put food on the table. Older voters worry about their kids/grandkids. I know that sounds like a big cliché, but it's true. So when all the Democratic Party seems to want to campaign on is identity politics, it not only turns them away from the Democrats, it leads to resentment and hate toward Democrats.

    Obviously there is a balance on how to appeal to different voters in different areas, but there has to be a message that you can convey to the masses that inspires them to vote for you. Identity politics will never be that message, it has to be based on some type of policy. How are you going to make people's lives better? That's what people care about at the end of the day.

    To make this all even damning for the Democrats and how they run campaigns, the majority the American people actually agree with them on policy. Raising taxes on the rich, raising minimum wage to a living wage, increasing Social Security benefits, investing in clean energy, universal healthcare, all very popular proposals favored by Democrats. If they stopped the identity politics and just started campaigning on their own policies not only would they win, they would help heal and transform this nation into what it should be. Democrats can actually MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

    They just have to start doing it.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 11-17-2020 at 10:22 AM.

  3. #3
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    One huge problem in ALL campaigns for years now has been that NOBODY seems to run on a platform. Far too much campaign energy focuses on two things- tell voters their opponent is bad and give voters veiled generic reasons why they are the better choice. Nobody has the balls to be specific about what they believe and what they intend to do with the term they're looking to be elected to serve in.

    Another issue is that IMO the vast majority of voters have only very general knowledge of what each party's platform actually is, if they really have any at all.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    One huge problem in ALL campaigns for years now has been that NOBODY seems to run on a platform. Far too much campaign energy focuses on two things- tell voters their opponent is bad and give voters veiled generic reasons why they are the better choice. Nobody has the balls to be specific about what they believe and what they intend to do with the term they're looking to be elected to serve in.

    Another issue is that IMO the vast majority of voters have only very general knowledge of what each party's platform actually is, if they really have any at all.
    Republicans CAN'T run on policy though because they would absolutely lose. Keep the federal government out of everything so the largest corporations can run rough shot over everyone else. Can't regulate Wall Street ("would cost jobs"), can't raise minimum wage ("bad for business") must allow the fossil fuel industry to pollute the environment ("cheaper energy"), must allow Universities to charge students with massive tuition costs ("Tuition free college=free ride/taker). They don't have a plan on healthcare, they've been trying to repeal Obamacare for a decade and haven't came up with a legitimate replacement in the entire time. Basically they would go back to pre-Obamacare days where you could be discriminated against if you have previously been sick/injured, but they would allow you to purchase health insurance from a different state to promote competition. That's their entire plan, spend less money and shift the burden of cost onto the consumer.

    Republicans run campaigns the way they do because they have to. They cannot win on policy so they have to make it about something else. Demonizing their opponents and fear mongering is all they got and they know it. It only works sometimes because the Democrats, for some insane reason, never want to run on policy either.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 11-17-2020 at 10:56 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    We touched on this in other threads. I think the party has an imagine problem. It seems they have lost appeal with middle America and a lot of blue collar workers. Is this bc of imagine or policy? Why, is it something they need to fix, and if so how?

    I think a lot of middle America sees the Democrats as the party of political correctness and cancel culture. I don’t think this is fair. Joe Biden can’t stop a twitter mob or companies from bowing down to them. At the same time I think they played into this after “me to” with the Judge and that Al Franklin guy . I am not sure how they fix this. Running people with military backgrounds seems to play well but its a tough label to shed.

    The socialism thing also gets play but I really don’t think most Republicans think Democrats are socialist. it’s like when people used to refer to things as gay. They really weren’t calling it homosexual. I think the Dems would well be served to start call election interference, and wealth concentration socialist etc.


    Idk what are your thoughts


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    I think they have trouble getting the message out. It's not simple. How do you explain that the benefits of medicare for all are not just you have health insurance. (The costs are easy TAXES go way up.. and as, Sitewolf I think mentioned, people don't even understand tax brackets) There is the benefit of not having to pay your portion of the insurance. There is the benefit of your employer not having to provide hunmdreds of dollars a month for insurance (they can just give that money to you and you can decide how to spend it).

    I can show you studies where person A is very willing to take a loss, to prevent someone else from gaining something they believe that person didn't earn. So while liberals are often looking to other people with their "bleeding hearts," coinservatives are also often ignoring the impacts to themselves and looking for who's cheating the game. That's the messages they are being sent.

    The whole "gay" thing actually matters. I heard a kid say ****** in my class once. So what I did was make everyone in the class use the kids name to refer to anything negative in the class. Kid didn't like it. Kid got it (feels bad). Everyone else got it (They all started thinking more negatively about the kid). But that's in a college psychology class where people are there to understand why people do and think the things they do. Usually I teach that by teaching the difference between calling someone a Schizophrenic (defining them by their illness), vs calling someone with colon cancer a Cancer (defining them by their illness). ****ing words matter. When we were calling things gay in as little kids we DIDN'T know what we were doing. But I have a gay brother... a brother who knew he was gay when he was real little. It mattered to him. And we were being conditioned to think of gay as negative that whole time.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    Republicans CAN'T run on policy though because they would absolutely lose. Keep the federal government out of everything so the largest corporations can run rough shot over everyone else. Can't regulate Wall Street ("would cost jobs"), can't raise minimum wage ("bad for business") must allow the fossil fuel industry to pollute the environment ("cheaper energy"), must allow Universities to charge students with massive tuition costs ("Tuition free college=free ride/taker). They don't have a plan on healthcare, they've been trying to repeal Obamacare for a decade and haven't came up with a legitimate replacement in the entire time. Basically they would go back to pre-Obamacare days where you could be discriminated against if you have previously been sick/injured, but they would allow you to purchase health insurance from a different state to promote competition. That's their entire plan, spend less money and shift the burden of cost onto the consumer.

    Republicans run campaigns the way they do because they have to. They cannot win on policy so they have to make it about something else. Demonizing their opponents and fear mongering is all they got and they know it. It only works sometimes because the Democrats, for some insane reason, never want to run on policy either.
    I think this shows how little you know of conservative policy.

    America First
    Comprehensive Legal Immigration Reform
    Less Regulation to Encourage Jobs and Wages
    Reasonable Environmental Controls
    Allowing coverage on pre-existing conditions for Medical
    Less Federal Government returning more control to Individuals
    Ending legislation from the bench by filling vacancies with such minded judges
    Ending the murder of innocent unborns
    Strong Military

    It's a platform that a great deal of Americans want however even the Conservatives have bigger eyes than wallets and spend, spend, spend. They like to say they are different than Liberals in finances but they don't show it.
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  7. #7
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    Here's the problem with the dems vis a vis repubs and how both parties relate to conservatives, blue collars, middle America etc.

    The dems constantly give credence to all these odd little sub groups that the vast majority of Americans don't care about one way or the other. All the political correctness the dems support is stupid, wasteful ad unproductive. Most people really don't care about it…but yhe dems seem to force themselves into siding with some of these silly issues.

    Case in point……I was reading up on the BLM movement. One of the founders (Patrisse Cullors) is married to someone (I guess a woman. Not sure based on the photo) who is black, queer, intersectional (whatever that is) , gender non-conforming whatever. She (I assume) has to be referred to as "they" and accepts no other pronouns. This is just a stupid position that the vast majority of Americans could not care less about. It's pointless. It is such a stupid and pointless position that many who would be supportive of BLM, sees this crap and simply write them off.

    It's pointless like most of the PC and "woke" (whatever that is) bullcrap that keeps getting thrown at us day in day out. And most of this crap is associated with the dems.

    One of the Carolinas lost out on a big NFL event because of a controversy over bathroom usage. Millions of $$$$ lost over toilets.

    Some states accept "X" on drivers's licenses instead of Male / Female

    NY recognizes dozens of sexes instead of just M F

    Males beating females in their sports because they feel like a female today.

    All this crap is pointless and counterproductive. No one really cares other than the oddballs that keep pushing these issues inn our faces Why not just drop your drawers, check out the plumbing and that is what you are??? M or F.

    And for the record……no one cares if gays get married or not,, no one want to fire gays, no one wants to bar them from housing or employment, no one is looking to beat up gays. In short……no one cares about them one way or the other. Just like no one cares if you are hetero, white, black, Christian, Muslim, Jewish……no on really cares. It gets real irritating when these groups feel the need to keep shoving their little views in the public's face.

    No one cares.

    And, as always, feel free to do what you want.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    I think this shows how little you know of conservative policy.

    America First
    Comprehensive Legal Immigration Reform
    Less Regulation to Encourage Jobs and Wages
    Reasonable Environmental Controls
    Allowing coverage on pre-existing conditions for Medical
    Less Federal Government returning more control to Individuals
    Ending legislation from the bench by filling vacancies with such minded judges
    Ending the murder of innocent unborns
    Strong Military

    It's a platform that a great deal of Americans want however even the Conservatives have bigger eyes than wallets and spend, spend, spend. They like to say they are different than Liberals in finances but they don't show it.
    I don't know any conservative that would disagree with any of this. I might temper the abortion point a bit.

    And when you read it a few points come to mind……
    1 rather than being a political position, it is more common sense.
    2. None of this hurts anyone
    3. note that it does not apply to any one person or group. It is applicable to all Americqans.
    4. Re-read point 3.

    Good post.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    I think this shows how little you know of conservative policy.

    America First
    Comprehensive Legal Immigration Reform
    Less Regulation to Encourage Jobs and Wages
    Reasonable Environmental Controls
    Allowing coverage on pre-existing conditions for Medical
    Less Federal Government returning more control to Individuals
    Ending legislation from the bench by filling vacancies with such minded judges
    Ending the murder of innocent unborns
    Strong Military

    It's a platform that a great deal of Americans want however even the Conservatives have bigger eyes than wallets and spend, spend, spend. They like to say they are different than Liberals in finances but they don't show it.
    Do you mean like the minimum wage aka "if it were legal to pay you less, I would"?
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Do you mean like the minimum wage aka "if it were legal to pay you less, I would"?
    Or maybe "if you were worth more you would get paid more."

    Serious question……

    how much can you pay a burger flipper or a pizza delivery
    and then ……how much would you be willing to pay for a burger or pizza.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    I think this shows how little you know of conservative policy.

    America First
    Comprehensive Legal Immigration Reform
    Less Regulation to Encourage Jobs and Wages
    Reasonable Environmental Controls
    Allowing coverage on pre-existing conditions for Medical
    Less Federal Government returning more control to Individuals
    Ending legislation from the bench by filling vacancies with such minded judges
    Ending the murder of innocent unborns
    Strong Military

    It's a platform that a great deal of Americans want however even the Conservatives have bigger eyes than wallets and spend, spend, spend. They like to say they are different than Liberals in finances but they don't show it.
    The poster you quoted said Republicans — not conservatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    Republicans CAN'T run on policy though because they would absolutely lose. Keep the federal government out of everything so the largest corporations can run rough shot over everyone else. Can't regulate Wall Street ("would cost jobs"), can't raise minimum wage ("bad for business") must allow the fossil fuel industry to pollute the environment ("cheaper energy"), must allow Universities to charge students with massive tuition costs ("Tuition free college=free ride/taker). They don't have a plan on healthcare, they've been trying to repeal Obamacare for a decade and haven't came up with a legitimate replacement in the entire time. Basically they would go back to pre-Obamacare days where you could be discriminated against if you have previously been sick/injured, but they would allow you to purchase health insurance from a different state to promote competition. That's their entire plan, spend less money and shift the burden of cost onto the consumer.

    Republicans run campaigns the way they do because they have to. They cannot win on policy so they have to make it about something else. Demonizing their opponents and fear mongering is all they got and they know it. It only works sometimes because the Democrats, for some insane reason, never want to run on policy either.
    Last edited by Crovash; 11-17-2020 at 11:31 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    I think they have trouble getting the message out. It's not simple. How do you explain that the benefits of medicare for all are not just you have health insurance. (The costs are easy TAXES go way up.. and as, Sitewolf I think mentioned, people don't even understand tax brackets) There is the benefit of not having to pay your portion of the insurance. There is the benefit of your employer not having to provide hunmdreds of dollars a month for insurance (they can just give that money to you and you can decide how to spend it).

    I can show you studies where person A is very willing to take a loss, to prevent someone else from gaining something they believe that person didn't earn. So while liberals are often looking to other people with their "bleeding hearts," coinservatives are also often ignoring the impacts to themselves and looking for who's cheating the game. That's the messages they are being sent.

    The whole "gay" thing actually matters. I heard a kid say ****** in my class once. So what I did was make everyone in the class use the kids name to refer to anything negative in the class. Kid didn't like it. Kid got it (feels bad). Everyone else got it (They all started thinking more negatively about the kid). But that's in a college psychology class where people are there to understand why people do and think the things they do. Usually I teach that by teaching the difference between calling someone a Schizophrenic (defining them by their illness), vs calling someone with colon cancer a Cancer (defining them by their illness). ****ing words matter. When we were calling things gay in as little kids we DIDN'T know what we were doing. But I have a gay brother... a brother who knew he was gay when he was real little. It mattered to him. And we were being conditioned to think of gay as negative that whole time.
    I agree with you. I was only pointing out that I don’t think most Republicans really think Biden and Harris are akin to Joe Stalin. It doesn’t make what they are saying correct, nice, or unimportant it just means that the intent isn’t quite literal


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  13. #13
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    Democratic imagine problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    I don't know any conservative that would disagree with any of this. I might temper the abortion point a bit.

    And when you read it a few points come to mind……
    1 rather than being a political position, it is more common sense.
    2. None of this hurts anyone
    3. note that it does not apply to any one person or group. It is applicable to all Americqans.
    4. Re-read point 3.

    Good post.
    on the Democrats side no one cares about the BLM “leaders” that less 10 people in the country can name without the help of goggle. You do. They do care about some of the issues this movement speaks to. Maybe they should make this more clear somehow. I am not sure. You seem to care about all this stuff quite passionately actually

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    Last edited by ewing; 11-17-2020 at 11:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
    I think this shows how little you know of conservative policy.

    America First
    Comprehensive Legal Immigration Reform
    Less Regulation to Encourage Jobs and Wages
    Reasonable Environmental Controls
    Allowing coverage on pre-existing conditions for Medical
    Less Federal Government returning more control to Individuals
    Ending legislation from the bench by filling vacancies with such minded judges
    Ending the murder of innocent unborns
    Strong Military

    It's a platform that a great deal of Americans want however even the Conservatives have bigger eyes than wallets and spend, spend, spend. They like to say they are different than Liberals in finances but they don't show it.
    That all sounds good, but it's not the reality

    On "America First", what does that mean actually? Are we going to suddenly start making things in America again? That hasn't happened. It's cheaper for companies to make things overseas and so they do. We haven't "taken care of our own" in terms of proving healthcare, increasing social security for seniors, and wages for the working class have been stagnant for over 40 years. "America First" is a slogan, not a policy that is pushed by the GOP.

    On Legal Immigration reform, Republicans could have done something about it when they had the White House, House, Senate, and Supreme Court from 2017-2019. They didn't pass any legislation on immigration. The only thing that's happened on immigration the last four years was through executive order that not only promoted mass deportation, it also restricted LEGAL immigration. You can say you're for something, but when they had the opportunity to do something they didn't.

    On "Less Regulation to encourage jobs and wages", again real wages have been stagnant for over 40 years. Unsurprisingly, income inequality has skyrocketed in the last 40+ years.

    https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2019/

    On "Reasonable Environmental Controls", What is reasonable exactly? Do you know that right now the Trump administration is trying to sell off oil rights in the Arctics to the largest fossil fuel corporations so they can drill? Is that reasonable? Is it reasonable to take millions of dollars in campaign money from the fossil fuel industry and then deny their role in climate change? Because that's what the GOP does, it's the reality of the situation.

    On Healthcare, they don't have a plan, we all know they don't. They say repeal and replace, but they have never tried to replace. The only policy proposal they have been for is remove state lines. They say we'll cover pre existing conditions, but that's the not the reality of how they've governed.

    On "Less Federal Government/returning control to individuals", what are they returning to individuals? Power? Money? Again, no. That only goes to big business. The government got out of the way and allowed huge mergers from corporations like Disney and Fox, Time Warner and AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint to happen and it's done nothing for consumers. It didn't lower costs, in fact AT&T specifically raised costs after merging with Time Warner. You might have an argument with state rights, and I don't disagree with that, but it depends on what we're talking about. Just saying "less federal government=more opportunity for individuals" is wrong and frankly unintelligent.

    On Judges, I don't really have a strong take here either way. I agree Judges should only interpret the law and call "balls and strikes". I don't agree that is what the GOP have in mind with how they have stacked the courts but that's only my opinion.

    On abortion, Roe v Wade stated that a woman has a right to do with her body what she chooses. The reality is though that this topic is more about what your opinion is on the matter, so I'll give you that one.

    On "Strong Military", again define strong military. Do we have to spend more than the next the next 10 nations combined to have a strong military? I don't believe that and I would argue most people don't. Where does all that money go exactly anyway? Could it possibly be that the U.S. government gives huge corporations like Boeing billions of dollars in profit from defense contracts every single year? Oh yeah that does happen. Just like "America First", "Strong Military" is a slogan not a policy.

    The GOP doesn't represent what you said, and their policies are terrible.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 11-17-2020 at 12:05 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    The poster you quoted said Republicans — not conservatives.
    It's the party's platform as well. I just made it more inclusive.
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