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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    You do realize that this scenario is something that we can't really use the CBA as a guideline right? Literally every sport is in unprecedented territory. And you ask anyone that and they'll say it. Yes the ongoing talks between players and the NBA offices right now is how to we settle shutting it down and not when do we get back up, but that doesn't mean that they will be able to follow the CBA.

    What happens if teams can't get players in to check medicals? Can't have the combine? Teams can't congregate in offices for the draft? Teams can't meet with players for FA? Is your answer "too bad that's the CBA"? Or is it "hey we're in unprecedented times, we got to make alterations here."

    Things aren't going to go absolutely the way the CBA says they should. Just can't and likely won't. They're going to have to change things. So quoting the CBA in right now's situation isn't the final word.
    Dude, no crap, thanks for making my argument for me. That's literally what I've been trying to tell you, you referenced the CBA first in post #99 talking about 15 through 30 will stay the same in the draft no matter what because that's how it has been for 70 years, all I was trying to convey to you and in your own words is "hey we're in unprecedented times, we got to make alterations here."

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Dude, no crap, thanks for making my argument for me. That's literally what I've been trying to tell you, you referenced the CBA first in post #99 talking about 15 through 30 will stay the same in the draft no matter what because that's how it has been for 70 years, all I was trying to convey to you and in your own words is "hey we're in unprecedented times, we got to make alterations here."
    The issue is there's 0 reason to change the draft, and there's life altering reasons to change when things happen.


    But of course that seems lost here.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Here's the thing though.....owners and players generally don't want to mess with that contract, and I agree. However this is all uncharted territory. If the players union and ownership came together, agreed that "hey we're not opening cans of worms, but we need some one time exemptions" I truly believe they can get it done. It's going to need to be something to be explored.

    I feel as though if ownership/Adam Silver were to lay out what the 'revised' offseason, take it to NBPA as a finalized 'this is all that will be changed', it could get done.

    I think from an ownership perspective, they are interested in seeing how the NFL draft goes. If it's a disaster, they're going to want to move things around.

    Think of it this way:
    There's injured players bound to be FA's that haven't played since February, NCAA players that haven't played since then. There's going to be medical checks on them. There are injured players that could be traded that teams are going to want to do physicals on. If players can go to teams, teams can't come to players, and they have to lean on independent doctors to check on it, which in many places if these aren't ICU/ER doctors, they might be in short supply. Add on the challenges of meeting with players, getting them to work out, seeing them in group scrimmages. I know top players don't go through things like that, but that's how you find the Jordan Bells, Manu Ginobli's, Tony Parker's of the NBA. At least for the NFL they got the combine in before the pandemic really hit, so teams have gotten at least 1 chance to meet with players.

    If they continue with the offseason with dates as set forth, we will learn what scouts/front offices are good vs ones that should be fired.

    Beyond the players, this messes with FO hiring and firing, coach hiring and firing, and other organization decisions. Teams might stick with a HC just because they can't really go through the interview process the way they want to. Front offices will stay intact for another year because you won't want a new GM/President coming in and shifting focus without being able to actually sit with every player and staff member.

    My prediction is if they stick with the offseason as laid out (and honestly is sounds like it won't from listening to NBA Radio) we're going to see the least amount of turnover of players and staff in a long time IMO. Players will take one year deals with a familiar spot, few long term deals out of not wanting to be locked in cheaper than they could be, things like that.
    I agree that they are going to work together for this season, I just think they are much more likely to sacrifice this season rather than put anything into next season.

    I agree that they are going to look for some kind of solutions to all the scouting/draft issues, but I don't think there is anyway they get all the data they want on the players so scouting and front offices are going to be exposed to more risk no doubt.

    I could see the NBA giving the players a list of designated doctors they can go to for physicals and basic measurables during the shelter in place. That's really the least of the issues. Interviews and player discussion online is certain to happen. Tryouts are going to be scrapped if the shelter goes too long but I agree they are probably working to find a way to get them in.

    Still, the whole issue comes down to when the shelter in place ends. As long as it's in place there will be no tryouts and no playoffs. If it goes through May I suspect the playoffs will be cancelled outright, and the draft options and scheduling is shrinking all the time.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I agree that they are going to work together for this season, I just think they are much more likely to sacrifice this season rather than put anything into next season.

    I agree that they are going to look for some kind of solutions to all the scouting/draft issues, but I don't think there is anyway they get all the data they want on the players so scouting and front offices are going to be exposed to more risk no doubt.

    I could see the NBA giving the players a list of designated doctors they can go to for physicals and basic measurables during the shelter in place. That's really the least of the issues. Interviews and player discussion online is certain to happen. Tryouts are going to be scrapped if the shelter goes too long but I agree they are probably working to find a way to get them in.

    Still, the whole issue comes down to when the shelter in place ends. As long as it's in place there will be no tryouts and no playoffs. If it goes through May I suspect the playoffs will be cancelled outright, and the draft options and scheduling is shrinking all the time.
    I would say more when restrictions on gatherings expire than the shelter in place. In China and Wuhan they lifted the shelter in place, but still had tight restrictions on gatherings and travel to (reportedly) keep it down.

    I think what makes part of it hard with your idea on designated doctors is that's (1) something that's going to have to be agreed on between players and owners and (2) there's likely players in some remote places or possibly out of the country by that time.

    If I had to take an uninformed guess as to why a cancellation hasn't been announced (in order):
    ~ They need to figure out the pay. Players want to get paid something but likely there's going to be some type of deferment agreement.
    ~ They know the offseason schedule needs to change and they are working on the dates.
    ~ They are working on how to start the 2020-21 season.
    ~ They are talking about shifting the entire NBA calendar to starting on Christmas.

    I would land on the first two is what's being discussed the most. How will players be compensated and what is the offseason going to look like.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    The issue is there's 0 reason to change the draft, and there's life altering reasons to change when things happen.


    But of course that seems lost here.
    I'll just stick with your "hey we're in unprecedented times, we got to make alterations here." In regards to the draft, because that is the only logical and coherent thing I've heard on the issue.

    Thanks for coming to the light even if you wanna shy from it after the fact. 🤝

  6. #141
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    I have not come to the light with draft change at all. lol.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I have not come to the light with draft change at all. lol.
    Everything in the CBA should be negotiable outside of the draft order, how illogical

    You're funny war.

  8. #143
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    Draft order has nothing to do with the virus. Timing does. It actually is quite logical TBH.

  9. #144
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    Without using the crutch of the playoffs, why should they change the draft order from 15-30?

  10. #145
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    Besides with doing that you would need all 30 teams to agree to it, agree to what the odds are, possibly change the terms of trades, you effect teams financials (pick 15 makes $1.1 mil more than pick 30), scouting would need to change on a dime, possible trades need to change on a dime.

    Changing the date of start of FA, the combine, the draft, summer league is easy. The massive ripple effects of a second lottery is massive.

  11. #146
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    Playoffs have no bearing on draft order. We've had a shortened season before due to a lockout and they didn't change draft odds. We also had the 2012-13 season where two teams only played 81 games and they made no adjustments. This is such an odd argument.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    Playoffs have no bearing on draft order. We've had a shortened season before due to a lockout and they didn't change draft odds. We also had the 2012-13 season where two teams only played 81 games and they made no adjustments. This is such an odd argument.
    I’ve said that a few times but we need to “be fair” because of no playoffs. I pointed that out about 12-13 and his argument was “see they’ve changed it before.”

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    Playoffs have no bearing on draft order. We've had a shortened season before due to a lockout and they didn't change draft odds. We also had the 2012-13 season where two teams only played 81 games and they made no adjustments. This is such an odd argument.
    When was the last time lockout season or otherwise that a season hasn't had a playoffs or champion? I'll wait...

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    Playoffs have no bearing on draft order. We've had a shortened season before due to a lockout and they didn't change draft odds. We also had the 2012-13 season where two teams only played 81 games and they made no adjustments. This is such an odd argument.
    would the outcome of that game change either of their standings? Both teams were playoff teams, so Im assuming nothing was on the line if the game wasn't made up
    YOU JUST MADE THE LIST!!!!!

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  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Without using the crutch of the playoffs, why should they change the draft order from 15-30?
    I've told you, there were anywhere from 15 to 19 games left(depending upon team), you're locking people into positions they otherwise were not guaranteed to be locked into.

    That's almost 1/5 or 1/4 of a season left and you referred to it before as "a few games"... Pfft.

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