Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 13 of 72 FirstFirst ... 311121314152363 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 1075
  1. #181
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,388
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I almost forgot graham and how dominant he was. Yep, thatís my vote with gronk.
    Kelce is ahead of him. This isnít fantasy football.

  2. #182
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    [emoji288]
    Posts
    16,898
    In the 2010s, Jimmy Graham totaled 7883 receiving yards compared to Witten's 7012. If Witten hadn't retired for a year, it's safe to say he would be around 7500 if not more.

    TDs are a different story with Graham's 74 to Witten's 45, but Dez Bryant filled the role of red zone target on the Cowboys. During the 4 full seasons or close to full seasons Romo played in the 2010s, Bryant caught 50 TDs! It's also worth considering that Graham's QBs for his entire career were Brees, Wilson, and Rodgers. He didn't even play a game with a backup QB for the entire decade!

    So those receiving numbers to me are close enough. In terms of blocking, Graham and Witten aren't close at all. So I'd take Witten over Graham as 2010s All-Decade TE.

    Purely in terms of production Witten easily beats out Kelce, but of course Kelce only really played from 2014 onward. He missed almost his entire rookie season due to a knee injury. So it's more of a discussion over methodology between those two. Witten's 2010 season rivals Kelce's late-decade peak though.
    Last edited by QB_Eagles; 04-07-2020 at 09:31 PM.

  3. #183
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,388
    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    In the 2010s, Jimmy Graham totaled 7883 receiving yards compared to Witten's 7012. If Witten hadn't retired for a year, it's safe to say he would be around 7500 if not more.

    TDs are a different story with Graham's 74 to Witten's 45, but Dez Bryant filled the role of red zone target on the Cowboys. During the 4 full seasons or close to full seasons Romo played in the 2010s, Bryant caught 50 TDs! It's also worth considering that Graham's QBs for his entire career were Brees, Wilson, and Rodgers. He didn't even play a game with a backup QB for the entire decade!

    So those receiving numbers to me are close enough. In terms of blocking, Graham and Witten aren't close at all. So I'd take Witten over Graham as 2010s All-Decade TE.

    Purely in terms of production Witten easily beats out Kelce, but of course Kelce only really played from 2014 onward. He missed almost his entire rookie season due to a knee injury. So it's more of a discussion over methodology between those two. Witten's 2010 season rivals Kelce's late-decade peak though.
    Very well written.

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bethlehem
    Posts
    40,576

    NFCE 2020 Season Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    In the 2010s, Jimmy Graham totaled 7883 receiving yards compared to Witten's 7012. If Witten hadn't retired for a year, it's safe to say he would be around 7500 if not more.

    TDs are a different story with Graham's 74 to Witten's 45, but Dez Bryant filled the role of red zone target on the Cowboys. During the 4 full seasons or close to full seasons Romo played in the 2010s, Bryant caught 50 TDs! It's also worth considering that Graham's QBs for his entire career were Brees, Wilson, and Rodgers. He didn't even play a game with a backup QB for the entire decade!

    So those receiving numbers to me are close enough. In terms of blocking, Graham and Witten aren't close at all. So I'd take Witten over Graham as 2010s All-Decade TE.

    Purely in terms of production Witten easily beats out Kelce, but of course Kelce only really played from 2014 onward. He missed almost his entire rookie season due to a knee injury. So it's more of a discussion over methodology between those two. Witten's 2010 season rivals Kelce's late-decade peak though.
    But Witten did retire. We get enough **** about what Carson wouldíve finished with during the 2017 season, but the reality is he didnít win the MVP because he didnít finish the season. Those numbers didnít happen. Graham missed 7 games in this decade (according to PFR and this doesnít count games he left which Iím sure he left games more often than Witten) so should we had numbers to him?

    And Brees is notorious for spreading the ball around so if anything that leads more in favor of Graham and his ability to put up pretty monster number. Also Witten and Graham both had roughly 1000 targets (give or take 10ish) in this decade and thatís with Witten missing a season. Now Graham averaged about 140 from 2011-2014 in New Orleans but Witten was roughly at 120 around that time as well.

    Witten was obviously the more well rounded, durable, and reliable of the two and the argument can be made for that but purely by offensive output, Graham blows him away especially considering they were targeted roughly the same amount of times throughout the decade.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by koldjerky; 04-08-2020 at 08:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bethlehem
    Posts
    40,576
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Kelce is ahead of him. This isnít fantasy football.
    To be fair, all these TEs were elite fantasy football options during this decade too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,620
    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    In the 2010s, Jimmy Graham totaled 7883 receiving yards compared to Witten's 7012. If Witten hadn't retired for a year, it's safe to say he would be around 7500 if not more.

    TDs are a different story with Graham's 74 to Witten's 45, but Dez Bryant filled the role of red zone target on the Cowboys. During the 4 full seasons or close to full seasons Romo played in the 2010s, Bryant caught 50 TDs! It's also worth considering that Graham's QBs for his entire career were Brees, Wilson, and Rodgers. He didn't even play a game with a backup QB for the entire decade!

    So those receiving numbers to me are close enough. In terms of blocking, Graham and Witten aren't close at all. So I'd take Witten over Graham as 2010s All-Decade TE.

    Purely in terms of production Witten easily beats out Kelce, but of course Kelce only really played from 2014 onward. He missed almost his entire rookie season due to a knee injury. So it's more of a discussion over methodology between those two. Witten's 2010 season rivals Kelce's late-decade peak though.
    Jimmy Graham basically missed an entire year too when he shredded his knee.

  7. #187
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    [emoji288]
    Posts
    16,898
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Jimmy Graham basically missed an entire year too when he shredded his knee.
    I shouldn't have even made the point about the retired year because the yards are close enough without it.

  8. #188
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    [emoji288]
    Posts
    16,898
    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    And Brees is notorious for spreading the ball around so if anything that leads more in favor of Graham and his ability to put up pretty monster number.
    Graham led the Saints in receiving yards in 2011 and 2013, as well as in TDs in 2011, 2013, and 2014. Like I said, he was basically a receiver. Yet Witten has comparable receiving yards on the decade while also actually playing as a tight end.

  9. #189
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,620
    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    I shouldn't have even made the point about the retired year because the yards are close enough without it.
    So I was curious on this and just checked it. If we did 2010-2019 as the seasons for the all decade team:
    Witten: 144 games played, 144 starts (reg season)
    Graham: 153 games played, 111 starts (reg season)
    Witten: 3 playoff games played, 3 started
    Graham: 8 playoff games played, 6 started

    I wish I had Grahamís snap count numbers because there 3 games in his rookie year he didnít see the field for offense (so it seems via PFR), and 4 games with 2 or less targets. Of course this entire time Witten was the starter. Also hard to account for those games Jimmy was hurt and played limited snaps, or started but came out early, and things like that. All in all I think Wittenís 33 games started advantage (meaning thatís 42 games Graham was not a starter and potentially saw limited snap counts) helps him more than the lost year hurt him.

    Edit:
    BTW I bring this point up not because I disagree with you but rather because I hate any type of stat adjustment. Because it skews what the player did. On a per catch basis and per game basis Jimmy Graham was better statistically, but (1) like you've said blocking is a big part of being a TE and everyone ignores it in the "quality" of a TE discussions and (2) if you look at NextGen stats for the years available, Jimmy Graham's average yards of a route run out paces Witten by roughly 10 yards, but their YAC is roughly the same, as is percent of TD's caught in the endzone, so in the end what makes Jimmy statistically better is the fact that Jimmy ran deeper routes than Witten.

    All of that being said, I would lean Jimmy because most of the 2010's was his prime, while most of the 2010's were Witten's 'back 9' so to speak.
    Last edited by warfelg; 04-08-2020 at 08:49 AM.

  10. #190
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,388
    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    To be fair, all these TEs were elite fantasy football options during this decade too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Iím sorry if Iím not understanding you correctly but it really sounds like your totally dismissing blocking.
    You say Witten was the better all rounded player like a boring afterthought.
    Tight end blocking is just as important as Running back receiving yards or Lamar Jacksonís running yards.

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,620
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Iím sorry if Iím not understanding you correctly but it really sounds like your totally dismissing blocking.
    You say Witten was the better all rounded player like a boring afterthought.
    Tight end blocking is just as important as Running back receiving yards or Lamar Jacksonís running yards.
    I didn't take it that way at all. In fact I took your comment as in there were guys with lesser stats that were better because they blocked. In the 2010's OC's started to really learn what a weapon a good pass catching TE is. Especially with the new rules allowing guys to get off the line and into space better, the league becoming more open as teams used the width of the field. TE's that can beat simple Tampa-Cover-2 concepts (look around the league and even man teams use some of this on the backend) will put up good stats.

    So take all the TE's being discussed and they were all elite FF options. Has nothing with dismissing blocking. This isn't like the 80's and 90's where you could legit put a non-pass catching TE who was a glorified LT as one of the best in the game. You need to block but you also need to be that pass catching threat or your offense loses an advantage it could have had.

  12. #192
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,388
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    I didn't take it that way at all. In fact I took your comment as in there were guys with lesser stats that were better because they blocked. In the 2010's OC's started to really learn what a weapon a good pass catching TE is. Especially with the new rules allowing guys to get off the line and into space better, the league becoming more open as teams used the width of the field. TE's that can beat simple Tampa-Cover-2 concepts (look around the league and even man teams use some of this on the backend) will put up good stats.

    So take all the TE's being discussed and they were all elite FF options. Has nothing with dismissing blocking. This isn't like the 80's and 90's where you could legit put a non-pass catching TE who was a glorified LT as one of the best in the game. You need to block but you also need to be that pass catching threat or your offense loses an advantage it could have had.
    Is it possible for a tight end to have inferior offensive stats but be more valuable overall?

  13. #193
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    58,620
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Is it possible for a tight end to have inferior offensive stats but be more valuable overall?
    If you are talking close inferior yes. But you can't compare a guy with 500 yards and 3 TD to a guy with 900 yards and 10 TD, even if the guy that has less is a better blocker.

  14. #194
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    86,802
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    If you are talking close inferior yes. But you can't compare a guy with 500 yards and 3 TD to a guy with 900 yards and 10 TD, even if the guy that has less is a better blocker.
    This

  15. #195
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,388
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    If you are talking close inferior yes. But you can't compare a guy with 500 yards and 3 TD to a guy with 900 yards and 10 TD, even if the guy that has less is a better blocker.
    No one was implying that and thatís clearly not the case here.

Page 13 of 72 FirstFirst ... 311121314152363 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •