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  1. #121
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    15 part series - Analyzing Present-Future of each Knick- Mark Hale, Marc Berman

    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Elfrid Payton- Part 10 of a series analyzing the New York Knicks
    Never have i a seen a guy that a team depended on as much as the Knicks depended on this guy and have him get the kind of hate he gets. Heís not the answer to all our problems but he was far from a problem himself. He is a hard working unselfish pro that plays real hard on D and we were much better on O with him on the floor. Shame he canít shoot for ****


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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Bobby Portis- Part 11 of a series analyzing the New York Knicks
    Total waste of pretty good talent. Makes Tim Thomas look like an overachiever


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Julius Randle- Part 12 of a series analyzing the New York Knicks
    He is exactly what I thought he was.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Mitchell Robinson- Part 13 of a series analyzing the New York Knicks
    The one real asset on this team. The cub board is pretty bare but Iíd love to get some long shooters around Mitch and let him run wild. He is an impact player


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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    yes i'll correct you, my answer is the same for Mitch who just may be my favorite player right now, you have them locked up you don't need to rush, why sign him now, what changes if you wait part or even all of next season? The quick answer is Nothing......you still have his QO, hence why they have QO for Rookie contracts to protect the team, so NBA gives you something and you don't use it? Like the Houston rule and Dolan don't use it, not smart was that?
    Trade him? I said for the right deal if he needs to be included, absolutely......what Knick fan wouldn't? Only Frank fans, not Knick fans, correct?

    Okay I posted many more, enough with Frank it's redundant and I don't think anyone is willing to truly read how I feel, just same old interpretations.....I'm a Knick fan first, players are secondary to the team.
    So youíre not correcting me lol because thatís exactly what I said you said. Donít sign him now, wait, and trade him if possible.

    Iím Knicks first too man Iím just saying based on your assessment there you donít really value him much which is fine. I donít even know what weíre arguing about at this point we can just agree we value him differently at the moment.

    Btw Iím fine with waiting to resign him unless thereís a downside to that Iím not seeing. Maybe rican can explain what the potential downside to waiting to resign him is.
    Last edited by HeartOfStarks; 04-05-2020 at 02:34 PM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    So youíre not correcting me lol because thatís exactly what I said you said. Donít sign him now, wait, and trade him if possible.

    Iím Knicks first too man Iím just saying based on your assessment there you donít really value him much which is fine. I donít even know what weíre arguing about at this point we can just agree we value him differently at the moment.

    Btw Iím fine with waiting to resign him unless thereís a downside to that Iím not seeing. Maybe rican can explain what the potential downside to waiting to resign him is.
    it's not a big deal either way, but it would be nice to A) show some faith and commitment to him long term

    and B) there was an article comparing Frank's contract situation to Harkless, Exum, & Smart. All 3 got $11m per year or more, keep in mind Moe & Exum was under a MUCH lower cap. So in reality they all got 13-14m per year, based on their defense alone really, and their age and perceived upside. So if you can get Frank to commit to a 3 or 4 year deal at $8m per year, instead of maybe having to match a 11-13m per year contract, AND show some faith in him at the same time, then why not do it? I don't think his value would be less than $8m in the FA market today so there's very little risk.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    it's not a big deal either way, but it would be nice to A) show some faith and commitment to him long term

    and B) there was an article comparing Frank's contract situation to Harkless, Exum, & Smart. All 3 got $11m per year or more, keep in mind Moe & Exum was under a MUCH lower cap. So in reality they all got 13-14m per year, based on their defense alone really, and their age and perceived upside. So if you can get Frank to commit to a 3 or 4 year deal at $8m per year, instead of maybe having to match a 11-13m per year contract, AND show some faith in him at the same time, then why not do it? I don't think his value would be less than $8m in the FA market today so there's very little risk.
    Copy that I agree with this thought.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Never have i a seen a guy that a team depended on as much as the Knicks depended on this guy and have him get the kind of hate he gets. Heís not the answer to all our problems but he was far from a problem himself. He is a hard working unselfish pro that plays real hard on D and we were much better on O with him on the floor. Shame he canít shoot for ****


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    Proof that just like mgt., the fan base is completely shellshocked and in disarray.

  9. #129
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    15 part series - Analyzing Present-Future of each Knick- Mark Hale, Marc Berman

    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    it's not a big deal either way, but it would be nice to A) show some faith and commitment to him long term

    and B) there was an article comparing Frank's contract situation to Harkless, Exum, & Smart. All 3 got $11m per year or more, keep in mind Moe & Exum was under a MUCH lower cap. So in reality they all got 13-14m per year, based on their defense alone really, and their age and perceived upside. So if you can get Frank to commit to a 3 or 4 year deal at $8m per year, instead of maybe having to match a 11-13m per year contract, AND show some faith in him at the same time, then why not do it? I don't think his value would be less than $8m in the FA market today so there's very little risk.
    You donít have to match and only one of those 3 guys lived up to the contract so I wouldnt advise it if it came to it. Sounds like you are willing to bet against the odds by your own logic. Sometimes you win doing that but I wouldnít expect to convince people to come around to your thinking using those examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  10. #130
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    15 part series - Analyzing Present-Future of each Knick- Mark Hale, Marc Berman

    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Never have i a seen a guy that a team depended on as much as the Knicks depended on this guy and have him get the kind of hate he gets. Heís not the answer to all our problems but he was far from a problem himself. He is a hard working unselfish pro that plays real hard on D and we were much better on O with him on the floor. Shame he canít shoot for ****


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    Payton sucks, and so does his defense.

    The Knicks went 3-14 during that stretch where Payton was injured, but thereís many reasons for that.

    -Fizdale played with no back-up PG while DSJ as well was hurt for 6 games and decided to have RJ handling the ball with a bunch of veterans. When DSJ came back, he played like crap

    -The team had brand new players and chemistry was clearly lacking early in the season

    -RJ in particular played really poorly during this stretch (37/27/56)

    -Our schedule wasnít exactly a cake-walk and we pulled a few upsets against Dallas. We would have won more games with Frank/Kadeem instead of trying RJ as a backup PG or playing DSJ

    -Whenever Payton starts, we have a capable backup PG behind him with Frank. Obviously weíll be better with that set-up. The teamís assist% is higher with Frank on the court than it is with Payton

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Total waste of pretty good talent. Makes Tim Thomas look like an overachiever


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    Honestly Portis isnít a bad player, but he got way too much money. He was never going to live up to his contract. Iíd bring him back for less money, but heíll probably go elsewhere and thatís fine with me.

    His rebounding was also very disappointing. I think he would be more efficient if he eliminated his mid-range game because heís much better from <10FT when heís not shooting 3s. Heís not a guy who can afford to shoot 40% on long 2s and 26% of his total shots come from there. He should cut that to 10-15%.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    He is exactly what I thought he was.


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    I thought heíd be a more efficient player. I think Fizdale ruined him by making him think he needed to be the man here.

  13. #133
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    15 part series - Analyzing Present-Future of each Knick- Mark Hale, Marc Berman

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Payton sucks, and so does his defense.

    The Knicks went 3-14 during that stretch where Payton was injured, but thereís many reasons for that.

    -Fizdale played with no back-up PG while DSJ as well was hurt for 6 games and decided to have RJ handling the ball with a bunch of veterans. When DSJ came back, he played like crap

    -The team had brand new players and chemistry was clearly lacking early in the season

    -RJ in particular played really poorly during this stretch (37/27/56)

    -Our schedule wasnít exactly a cake-walk and we pulled a few upsets against Dallas. We would have won more games with Frank/Kadeem instead of trying RJ as a backup PG or playing DSJ

    -Whenever Payton starts, we have a capable backup PG behind him with Frank. Obviously weíll be better with that set-up. The teamís assist% is higher with Frank on the court than it is with Payton
    Saying his defense sucks is just wrong. what do you think assist % tells us anyway? The team was much much better on offense with him handling the ball and went in the tank without him. They were by far the worst offense in the league he when he was hurt and they were the worst in the league when he was off the floor overall. It so transparent that the hate is largely bc some posters such big Frank fans. Iím sorry but Payton played pretty well this year and probably aided Frankís development more then anything. He is a brick layer and seems to regularly be hurt so I wouldnít look to him to be a long term answer.


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    Last edited by ewing; 04-05-2020 at 10:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  14. #134
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    15 part series - Analyzing Present-Future of each Knick- Mark Hale, Marc Berman

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    I thought heíd be a more efficient player. I think Fizdale ruined him by making him think he needed to be the man here.
    He did need to. Fizdale let him handle the ball out behide the 3 point line too much. He seems a little obsessed with the idea of having a point forward


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    Last edited by ewing; 04-05-2020 at 08:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Saying his defense sucks is just wrong. what do you think assist % tells us anyway? The team was much much better on offense with him handling the ball and went in the tank without him. They were by far the worst offense in the league he when he was hurt and they were the worst in the league when he was off the floor overall. It so transparent that the hate is largely bc some posters such big Frank fans. Iím sorry but Payton played pretty well this year and probably aided Frankís development more then anything. He is a brick layer and seems to regularly be hurt so I wouldnít look to him to be a long term answer.


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    Like I said the team struggled for the reasons I mentioned. Our depth at PG was ravaged and the team chemistry was poor with new players. Payton coming back just helped the team get back to normal. He should not be brought back as he is a square peg in a round hole.

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