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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Eli Manning
    4300 yards and 21 tds.

    I think it's safe to say we've proven that Cam was playing as a top 4-8 QB during that time when healthy.
    Why have you mentioned Baker and Eli???
    Obviously Cam had better numbers then some QBs.
    Weíve already proven that 4,5,6 is not possible.
    Rodgers
    Brees
    Ben
    Mahomes
    So we can take away the 4 in your range.
    Also
    Luck
    Goff
    Ryan
    The only thing that is really debatable is could he be in the 8 spot. I still donít think he is.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Why have you mentioned Baker and Eli???
    Obviously Cam had better numbers then some QBs.
    Weíve already proven that 4,5,6 is not possible.
    Rodgers
    Brees
    Ben
    Mahomes
    So we can take away the 4 in your range.
    Also
    Luck
    Goff
    Ryan
    The only thing that is really debatable is could he be in the 8 spot. I still donít think he is.
    No, those guys are guys you could put ahead. Everyone's rankings are going to be different. For example, no chance I'm putting Ryan, Luck, Goff, or Ben in front of Cam. And when factoring surrounding talent, I probably don't put Brees over him.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  3. #123
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    I donít think positional rankings are as variable year to year and game to game as statistics. If any team had one game to win in 2018 I highly doubt any of them are taking Cam over Brees or Brady regardless of the stats. And conversely I doubt any of them are taking Goff over Cam regardless of if the stats are close or even on Goffís favor.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    No, those guys are guys you could put ahead. Everyone's rankings are going to be different. For example, no chance I'm putting Ryan, Luck, Goff, or Ben in front of Cam. And when factoring surrounding talent, I probably don't put Brees over him.
    Most of those guys you kind of have to put ahead. Especially seeing as your using a theoretical model. Easy to say he was projected to throw for close to 4000 yards but the reality is he hasnít actually done it since 2011.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Most of those guys you kind of have to put ahead. Especially seeing as your using a theoretical model. Easy to say he was projected to throw for close to 4000 yards but the reality is he hasnít actually done it since 2011.
    Why do I have to put those guys ahead? Guys who are playing with WRs like Julio, Michael Thomas, AB, and TY Hilton. Guys who are having their blindside protected by LTs like Armstead, Matthews, Castanzo, and Whitworth. **** like that is why you pretty much have to look at the bad players Cam carries every single year.

    Cams 2018 starting WRs most of the year: Funchess, Torrey Smith, and a rookie DJ Moore. Smith couldn't even get significant reps in philly or SF before Carolina and couldn't find a team in 2019. Funchess is garbage and was allowed to leave only to get injured. Moore is developing but was raw and underused as a rookie.

    Cams OL: Some over the hill nobody at LT who I've honestly forgotten his name and dont care to look up, a UDFA LG, old/injured Ryan Kalil and his UDFA backup at C, Trai Turner, and Taylor Moton.

    The whole point of my 'theoretical model' was that Cam was really ****ing good when healthy before getting a significant shoulder injury. There's no more goalpost moving beyond that, I don't have to give a **** about "actual stats" when I'm only concerned with how Cam played when healthy, which has been my point from the beginning.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Why do I have to put those guys ahead? Guys who are playing with WRs like Julio, Michael Thomas, AB, and TY Hilton. Guys who are having their blindside protected by LTs like Armstead, Matthews, Castanzo, and Whitworth. **** like that is why you pretty much have to look at the bad players Cam carries every single year.

    Cams 2018 starting WRs most of the year: Funchess, Torrey Smith, and a rookie DJ Moore. Smith couldn't even get significant reps in philly or SF before Carolina and couldn't find a team in 2019. Funchess is garbage and was allowed to leave only to get injured. Moore is developing but was raw and underused as a rookie.

    Cams OL: Some over the hill nobody at LT who I've honestly forgotten his name and dont care to look up, a UDFA LG, old/injured Ryan Kalil and his UDFA backup at C, Trai Turner, and Taylor Moton.

    The whole point of my 'theoretical model' was that Cam was really ****ing good when healthy before getting a significant shoulder injury. There's no more goalpost moving beyond that, I don't have to give a **** about "actual stats" when I'm only concerned with how Cam played when healthy, which has been my point from the beginning.
    This.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Why do I have to put those guys ahead? Guys who are playing with WRs like Julio, Michael Thomas, AB, and TY Hilton. Guys who are having their blindside protected by LTs like Armstead, Matthews, Castanzo, and Whitworth. **** like that is why you pretty much have to look at the bad players Cam carries every single year.

    Cams 2018 starting WRs most of the year: Funchess, Torrey Smith, and a rookie DJ Moore. Smith couldn't even get significant reps in philly or SF before Carolina and couldn't find a team in 2019. Funchess is garbage and was allowed to leave only to get injured. Moore is developing but was raw and underused as a rookie.

    Cams OL: Some over the hill nobody at LT who I've honestly forgotten his name and dont care to look up, a UDFA LG, old/injured Ryan Kalil and his UDFA backup at C, Trai Turner, and Taylor Moton.

    The whole point of my 'theoretical model' was that Cam was really ****ing good when healthy before getting a significant shoulder injury. There's no more goalpost moving beyond that, I don't have to give a **** about "actual stats" when I'm only concerned with how Cam played when healthy, which has been my point from the beginning.
    Most QBs can play at an elite level in a shorter sample size. Fitzpatrick started the year with three 400 yard games. Doesnít mean anything.

    In 2018 Rivers was better then Cam after the first 11 games.
    He had 3119 yards passing
    26 TDs
    Completed 70 percent of his passes
    6 INTs ( one less then Cam )
    Does that mean Rivers is in the 4 to 8 range too? Lol

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Most QBs can play at an elite level in a shorter sample size. Fitzpatrick started the year with three 400 yard games. Doesnít mean anything.

    In 2018 Rivers was better then Cam after the first 11 games.
    He had 3119 yards passing
    26 TDs
    Completed 70 percent of his passes
    6 INTs ( one less then Cam )
    Does that mean Rivers is in the 4 to 8 range too? Lol
    Dude, I'm done playing the goalpost moving game. I've literally proven my point a dozen times with pretty much every comparable QB I've thrown at you. Did Rivers have a significant injury that clearly hampered his performance? If not, then wtf does that have to do with any of this?

    Also 11 games isn't a short sample size and it's certainly not the first good season Cam has had.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Dude, I'm done playing the goalpost moving game. I've literally proven my point a dozen times with pretty much every comparable QB I've thrown at you. Did Rivers have a significant injury that clearly hampered his performance? If not, then wtf does that have to do with any of this?

    Also 11 games isn't a short sample size and it's certainly not the first good season Cam has had.
    Youíve proven absolutely nothing.
    I have proven however that the other QBs have statistically done better.
    Rivers first 11 games were better then Cams first 11 games. Deal with it! So if you were consistent Rivers would have to be in the same range.
    I have never shifted the goalpost. I have bent over backwards to fit your narrative.

    You claimed the numbers and stats when healthy. Then when that was easily dismissed you shifted the goalpost away from stats and facts to good old boring he does more with less routine. So Cams 4500 yards is better then Big Bens 5200 or so.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Youíve proven absolutely nothing.
    I have proven however that the other QBs have statistically done better.
    Rivers first 11 games were better then Cams first 11 games. Deal with it! So if you were consistent Rivers would have to be in the same range.
    I have never shifted the goalpost. I have bent over backwards to fit your narrative.

    You claimed the numbers and stats when healthy. Then when that was easily dismissed you shifted the goalpost away from stats and facts to good old boring he does more with less routine. So Cams 4500 yards is better then Big Bens 5200 or so.
    Why is it so easy to dismiss surrounding talent?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Why is it so easy to dismiss surrounding talent?
    Itís a very slippery slope. You can use this logic to justify anything.
    Using stats is the best way to dispassionately compare players.
    Plus if we canít agree on facts how could we ever agree on something so subjective?

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Itís a very slippery slope. You can use this logic to justify anything.
    Using stats is the best way to dispassionately compare players.
    Plus if we canít agree on facts how could we ever agree on something so subjective?
    Stats lie.

    Itís not subjective to say Antonio Brown is better than Devin Funchess.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Itís a very slippery slope. You can use this logic to justify anything.
    Using stats is the best way to dispassionately compare players.
    Plus if we canít agree on facts how could we ever agree on something so subjective?
    2018 isn't too long ago, so I know a list of QBs ranked by stats isn't going to be a list of QBs ranked by individual performance. Since there is no stat that accurately measures a QB's individual performance, discussions like this are always going to be subjective.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    2018 isn't too long ago, so I know a list of QBs ranked by stats isn't going to be a list of QBs ranked by individual performance. Since there is no stat that accurately measures a QB's individual performance, discussions like this are always going to be subjective.
    Very true and well said. Also I donít have a problem with someone saying that they donít weigh stats as much. But donít tell me the stats were better.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Stats lie.

    Itís not subjective to say Antonio Brown is better than Devin Funchess.
    I had someone tell me that Hopkins was a better receiver then Jerry Rice. I showed the stats and he didnít care. He listed all the bad QBs that have thrown the ball to him. He then said that Rice had Montana and Young so the stats were irrelevant.
    This is the danger.

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