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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...18/passing.htm

    I think you'll be surprised that he absolutely is. His first 11 games projected him to finish 3rd in total TDs, 7th in total yards, 8th in passer rating, and 5th in comp% that everyone loves so much. Even with the 3 injured games and missing the last two games altogether, he finished 11th in total TDs, 15th in total yards, and 9th in comp%.



    You think that was the first time someone has loaded the box against the run-first Panthers? The all-decade Broncos defense beat the dog **** out of several great QBs, it's really no surprise that they limited a pretty weak Panthers offense that was being driven by 3 talented players all season long. "Except a stretch of play in 2018" or 2013, 2014 when the OL was functional, 2015, 2017 when he took a garbage group of nobodies to the playoffs and nearly upset the favorite Saints.... Come on son.
    i mean everyone can have a good season but cam has constantly under performed compared to the expectations he had... hes not a bad QB but he was never a great QB outside of a fluke season and he couldnt sustain it.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Gee if only Cam had a great line, great receivers, and a great running back... He would have been so much better! No ****. So would every QB.
    yea they all **** on Dak who has been waaaaaaaaaay better than cam ever was so far.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    I don't see how people don't see that. Chris Harris laid the blueprint out after the Super Bowl saying
    "Load the box, force y’all to throw the ball. Can you throw the football? That was the game plan." He was awful in the Super Bowl, and hasn't really been good since... Except for a stretch of play in 2018.
    They could have left Ted Ginn uncovered and he would have only caught 50% of his targets.

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    yea they all **** on Dak who has been waaaaaaaaaay better than cam ever was so far.
    I mean, one of the two is an actual NFL MVP.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    They could have left Ted Ginn uncovered and he would have only caught 50% of his targets.


    I mean, one of the two is an actual NFL MVP.
    and dilfer is a superbowl winning QB... **** happens... tell me how Cam was the mvp exactly and dont use the 15-1 record in which the team was loaded which goes to the argument of cam is **** without a pro bowl squad

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...15/passing.htm

    Dak this season vs cams mvp season

    yards- dak
    ypa-Dak
    Touchdowns-Cam
    Rushing yards-Cam
    Comp-Dak
    Qbr-Dak
    QB rating-Dak

    Should i go on?
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 03-21-2020 at 02:15 AM.

  5. #80
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    carson palmer had a better season over newton when newton won his mvp.

    Russel wilson had a better season over newton when newton won his mvp


    tell me how newton deserved mvp over wilson that season? RECORD AMIRITE? GTFO

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Gee if only Cam had a great line, great receivers, and a great running back... He would have been so much better! No ****. So would every QB.
    I've never said he needed great pieces all around him, but he does need competency, like literally every QB. Hes played most of his career with an OL and WRs full of guys who wouldn't play anywhere else, much less start.

    Put any non athletic QB with Michael Oher and Mike Remmers with Ted Ginn and Jericho Cotchery; not only do they not win MVP and lead the league in scoring, they probably don't survive 16 games. Put another QB with Matt Kalil and Darryl Williams with receivers like Kelvin Benjamin, Devin Funchess, Kaylim Clay, and Brenton Bersin. Not only do they not make playoffs and nearly beat the Saints, they probably look abysmal and go on IR by mid-season.

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    carson palmer had a better season over newton when newton won his mvp.

    Russel wilson had a better season over newton when newton won his mvp


    tell me how newton deserved mvp over wilson that season? RECORD AMIRITE? GTFO
    Carson Palmer had significantly better players around him and all he had to show for it was a couple hundred yards more. Week 17 with the #1 seed still on the line Cam sealed the deal while Palmer and the Cardinals got **** on by the Seahawks.

    Lmao, I'm turning this one around on you, YOU tell ME how Wilson deserved ANY vote that year. He was straight up bad the first half of the year. Also, MVP votes: Cam-48, Brady-1, Palmer-1. If Wilson was so amazing that year, why did 50 people choose to not vote for him?

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    and dilfer is a superbowl winning QB... **** happens... tell me how Cam was the mvp exactly and dont use the 15-1 record in which the team was loaded which goes to the argument of cam is **** without a pro bowl squad

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...15/passing.htm

    Dak this season vs cams mvp season

    yards- dak
    ypa-Dak
    Touchdowns-Cam
    Rushing yards-Cam
    Comp-Dak
    Qbr-Dak
    QB rating-Dak

    Should i go on?
    You should go on, name Dak's OL and weapons, then name Cam's. How far did Dak take his stacked offense in the playoffs?

    Our 2015 OL featured castaway OTs, an UDFA OG, and two good interior OL. Dak has a straight up pro bowl caliber OL. Our 2015 weapons were Ted Ginn (Carson Palmer's 4th option in 2014), Jericho Cotchery at age 68, rookie Funchess who had somehow worse hands than he does now, Jonathan Stewart, and of course Olsen. Just looking at Cooper and Zeke blows those guys away.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    and dilfer is a superbowl winning QB... **** happens... tell me how Cam was the mvp exactly and dont use the 15-1 record in which the team was loaded which goes to the argument of cam is **** without a pro bowl squad

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...15/passing.htm

    Dak this season vs cams mvp season

    yards- dak
    ypa-Dak
    Touchdowns-Cam
    Rushing yards-Cam
    Comp-Dak
    Qbr-Dak
    QB rating-Dak

    Should i go on?
    MVP is the overall performance.

    Cam had 4500ish total yards in 600ish attempts. 45 total TDs and 15 turnovers (I think because PFR I think does total fumbles so 5 of those). And also not to use it as be all end all (not even sure how good it is as compared to baseballs bWAR) but his AV was 20 that season. He had Greg Olson... that’s it.

    Dak had 5200ish total yards in 650ish attempts. 33 total TDs and 17 turnovers (PFRs saying 6 fumbles) with his AV at 16. He has that oline, Zeke, and a pretty solid/above average WR corps.

    If you put everything together, Cams MVP year was a lot better than Daks year as an overall player (which is what MVP should be).

    Now... as for just strictly a QB and now with Cam
    Possibly not being able to be the type of player he was then, for this overall thread topic, I’d be sheepish going forward with Cam too. Dude does need to learn to be a better passer if it wants to stick around.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  9. #84
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    1) first we have to forget the bad games he played cause he was hurt and eliminate some of the data.
    2) Then we take the fewer games and extrapolate the manipulated data and theorize to come up with better numbers.
    3) Against all logic we accept the first two steps and still find that Cams prorated numbers still wasn’t in the 4 to 8 range but now must consider he had fewer weapons too?

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Gee if only Cam had a great line, great receivers, and a great running back... He would have been so much better! No ****. So would every QB.
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    1) first we have to forget the bad games he played cause he was hurt and eliminate some of the data.
    2) Then we take the fewer games and extrapolate the manipulated data and theorize to come up with better numbers.
    3) Against all logic we accept the first two steps and still find that Cams prorated numbers still wasn’t in the 4 to 8 range but now must consider he had fewer weapons too?
    You really gotta keep up with what you're reading. The original post you commented to I specifically said he was playing at a top 4-8 level until injured. I haven't moved the goalpost once, I even proved what his first 11 games projected into 16 looked like and he was top 8 in most important categories. And also pointed out that even with injured games and missing games he still finished pretty well in rankings in several categories.

    As for a QBs surrounding talent, why wouldn't you account for it when comparing QBs in vacuum? Do you really think teams have equal talent everywhere but QB?

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    You really gotta keep up with what you're reading. The original post you commented to I specifically said he was playing at a top 4-8 level until injured. I haven't moved the goalpost once, I even proved what his first 11 games projected into 16 looked like and he was top 8 in most important categories. And also pointed out that even with injured games and missing games he still finished pretty well in rankings in several categories.

    As for a QBs surrounding talent, why wouldn't you account for it when comparing QBs in vacuum? Do you really think teams have equal talent everywhere but QB?
    There's a reason why I quoted a few words of his completely out of context.

    Alas, my genius is lost on the masses.

  12. #87
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    Mariner4life you do make solid points though. Keep it coming!

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    There's a reason why I quoted a few words of his completely out of context.

    Alas, my genius is lost on the masses.
    He was not on pace to be in the 4 to 8 range. Even if we are generous and allow the restrictive criteria. Shall we compare each QB one at a time?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    He was not on pace to be in the 4 to 8 range. Even if we are generous and allow the restrictive criteria. Shall we compare each QB one at a time?
    Since you're clearly not reading, let me give you the highlights of what's been said so far:

    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    It obviously depends on his level of health. He looked amazing in 2018 through the first 11 games until his shoulder completely fell apart. I would easily have put him somewhere around the 4-8 range when healthy in 2018.
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Somewhere in the 4 to 8 range??? Lol
    I would suggest that your love or bias is equal or more then the hate others have for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'm obviously biased, but I'm not wrong here. The problem is Cam has so many haters (not on PSD, just in general) that people blindly comment on him without seemingly ever watching him. Here's his statline through 11 games in 2018:

    69.64% comp%, 2699 passing yards, 22 passing TDs, 7 INTs 103.7 passer rating, 417 rushing yards, 4 rushing TDs.

    When extrapolated to 16 games, that's:
    3925 yards passing, 32 passing TDs, 10 INTs, 606 rushing yards, and 6 rush TDs.

    You can't tell me a 4500 combined yards, 38 combined TD, 10 INT season wouldn't fall in line with a top 8 season and very possibly closer to 4.

    That's what people don't realize. He was that good barely over a calendar year ago, but people act like he hasn't played at a high level in a decade.
    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    He literally threw 13 interceptions. How do you extrapolate to 10?
    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...18/passing.htm

    I think you'll be surprised that he absolutely is. His first 11 games projected him to finish 3rd in total TDs, 7th in total yards, 8th in passer rating, and 5th in comp% that everyone loves so much. Even with the 3 injured games and missing the last two games altogether, he finished 11th in total TDs, 15th in total yards, and 9th in comp%.
    So, as I said from the very beginning, when healthy in 2018, he was playing at a top 4-8 rate. Nothing about his surrounding talent. Again, I haven't moved the goalpost once about this discussion, you just haven't been keeping up with what's been posted.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    He was not on pace to be in the 4 to 8 range. Even if we are generous and allow the restrictive criteria. Shall we compare each QB one at a time?
    He was. But not as a pure QB. As an all around football player, he was in the 4-8 QB range. But we all knew that he'd start getting injured and with age his physical ability would decline and he'd have to actually develop as a passer. That's the question now. Can he be a good pocket QB? So far, the Panthers don't believe he can and no other gm has taken a chance on him.

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