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  1. #6976
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    No Nicky many states are showing increased cases. I mention Fla because DeSantis was the last to close and first to reopen. He voiced, amidst the spike, he is not shutting things down! He prefers the party line, more testing more cases. When the data clearly shows otherwise. He is getting all his marching orders from the Fuhrer.
    Drt come on , this virus has been here for atleast 4 months , desantis closing too late and opening too early Is not why there is a spike NOW . Even with the spike going on here in Florida , the stare still has about half the cases that ny has . And Still you keep ignoring the real main cause of the spikes going on now nation wide and that is from the gathering of hundreds of thousands of protests all across this country .
    Last edited by Posada20; 06-19-2020 at 02:38 PM.

  2. #6977
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    See, this what I mean. Trump was not against peaceful protesters. He is against the violent ones. But you put them as one big protest. Do you like destruction and violence or think it is ok because of the cause? Do you call that a form of protest?
    I didn't group them as one big protest. The president did though. There are ways to denounce violence while understanding that most of the protests are peaceful. They don't require the same course of action, either. The media is going to cover the anarchy because it gets ratings but there was no reason for multiple cities to have been using tear gas, rubber bullets, physical force, etc on peaceful protestors. Advocating such behavior is a joke and his divisive, antagonistic message over the BLM movement, kneeling for the anthem, etc just stokes more fires.

  3. #6978
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  4. #6979
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    They ignore the protests. Of course spikes happened because if it.....they want some scientists to say it first before they can agree and even if they did hear a scientist say it they will just quickly turn their head and forget about it.

    They put peaceful protest and violent destructive type protests as all one big protests. So when somebody criticizes the violence they say that person is against protests and that is no the case.
    Yeah it’s just a coincidence that after almost 4 weeks of protests there is suddenly a large spike in cases here in Florida . And that’s on top of the large spikes in over a dozen more states across this country .

  5. #6980
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Isn’t the GOP convention or pro trump rallies happening in Tulsa ?

  6. #6981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    Isn’t the GOP convention or pro trump rallies happening in Tulsa ?
    One of Trump's rallies are, yes. People should be allowed to protest there if they want to. Not everyone in Tulsa will be a Trump voter.

  7. #6982
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    One of Trump's rallies are, yes. People should be allowed to protest there if they want to. Not everyone in Tulsa will be a Trump voter.
    Well one reason trump made that tweet is because he is going to be there and there will be heightened security there so he wants to keep everyone safe . And be real if there are going to be a lot of people protesting that rally you can’t expect there to be peace . And all it takes is one or two unstable people in a large crowd , to ruin it for everyone else .

  8. #6983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    Drt come on , this virus has been here for atleast 4 months , desantis closing too late and opening too early Is not why there is a spike NOW . Even with the spike going on here in Florida , the stare still has about half the cases that ny has . And Still you keep ignoring the real main cause of the spikes going on now nation wide and that is from the gathering of hundreds of thousands of protests all across this country .
    Noone is denying protests as a factor. I said as much several pages back. But there are many factors contributing to the spike. You and Nick seem convinced and adamant it was only the result of protests.

    Did Fla have protests across the state? Did he open beaches across the state? Bars, clubs, restaurants?
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    “The greatest menace to freedom is an inert people.” - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  9. #6984
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Noone is denying protests as a factor. I said as much several pages back. But there are many factors contributing to the spike. You and Nick seem convinced and adamant it was only the result of protests.

    Did Fla have protests across the state? Did he open beaches across the state? Bars, clubs, restaurants?
    Actually yes , there were large protests in both northern and southern parts of Florida For weeks now . They just haven’t been in the news much because they have been mostly peaceful . For almost 2 weeks there were curfews . The fact that there is a large spike here and in other states only further proves that the lock downs were not effective in stopping the virus , it only delayed the inevitable . And If people can gather in large numbers to protest then I don’t see why people can’t go to the beach or to a bar . So I still don’t have a problem with the bars and beaches being opened when they were and I hope they don’t close everything down again
    Last edited by Posada20; 06-19-2020 at 03:10 PM.

  10. #6985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Posada20 View Post
    Actually yes , there were large protests in both northern and southern parts of Florida For weeks now . They just haven’t been in the news much because they have been mostly peaceful . For almost 2 weeks there were curfews . The fact that there is a large spike here and in other states only further proves that the lock downs were not effective in stopping the virus , it only delayed the inevitable .
    Absolutely incorrect assumption. Without Lockdowns, Another 60 Million People in U.S. Could Have Developed COVID-19

    Face masks, staying home and social distancing helped stop the spread of COVID-19. Getty images
    Without interventions, COVID-19 cases would grow at an average of about 38 percent per day, meaning the number of cases would have doubled about every 2 days.

    Some people may mistake the success of this brief period of physical distancing with the end of the first wave.
    Physical distancing, mask wearing, and hygiene habits are good tools to prevent the virus from spreading and overwhelming hospitals.

    Going into lockdown during the COVID-19 pandemic prevented 60 million cases of the virus in America, according to a reportTrusted Source published this week in Nature journal.

    Government shutdowns prevented 285 million cases in China, the report found.

    “Social distancing works,” said Melissa McPheeters, PhD, MPH, a health policy research professor and co-director of the Center for Improving the Public’s Health Through Informatics at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.

    But we need to continue being cautious because the virus is still circulating, McPheeters told Healthline.

    Lockdowns helped save millions of lives, study finds
    Along with other interventions, physical distancing (aka social distancing) and lockdowns were effective in reducing infection rates.

    The economic and social costs of shutdown policies was highly visible, but the health benefits in terms of cases prevented or delayed was unseen, said Esther Rolf, a PhD student and one of the study authors from UC Berkeley.

    One of the most surprising findings was how high the baseline growth rates of infections were — meaning how quickly the cases would have grown without lockdowns.

    Without interventions, COVID-19 cases would grow at an average of about 38 percent per day, meaning the number of cases would have doubled about every 2 days.

    “That is a very high baseline growth rate, and it is remarkably consistent across all countries in our sample except Iran,” Rolf said. Because polices were enacted, the growth rate was reduced significantly, she said.

    Another reportTrusted Source said quarantines saved about 3.1 million lives in 11 countries throughout Europe alone. In the United States, if 60 million cases were averted, that could translate to hundreds of thousands of lives saved over recent months.

    Thomas Glass, PhD, a retired professor of epidemiology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, said that physical distancing can lower the rate of disease transmission.

    “All it really does is spread them out over a longer period of time,” he said.

    How much contact those with the virus have with people who are susceptible is the most crucial factor in dampening the potential for exponential transmission, like what we saw in April, Glass explained.

    “People still are under the false belief that this is a sprint to an end to the epidemic. It’s not. It’s a marathon to herd immunity through the population getting infected or vaccinated,” he said.

    “To claim that 60 million infections have been prevented is to miss the point. All we have done is slowed things down to a more manageable pace, which at the moment is 20,000 new cases a day,” Glass pointed out.

    Resurgence
    While many people talk about a “second wave,” Glass doesn’t like to use the term because it can be confusing for many people.

    “Show me the evidence that the first one is over,” he said. “This wave is not over, it’s just shifting terrain, moving from patch to patch.”

    Some people may mistake the success of this brief period of physical distancing with the end of the first wave.

    “I believe we are now seeing a resurgence of cases as a result of reopening,” Glass said, adding that it will “continue and accelerate.”

    He doubts people will adhere to re-engagement of stay-at-home orders if they’re put in place. Although he thinks some will voluntarily stay home.

    “It’s going to be a very bumpy summer. And yes, there will be additional wavelets in the fall,” he said. When cold and flu season starts, heat and humidity wane, and people spend more time indoors, there will be a “substantial resurgence.”

    “We are nowhere near herd immunity,” Glass said. “Until there is a vaccine, and even after there is, it is likely to be repeated waves of transmission intensity.

    Staying safe
    “We need to remain vigilant,” McPheeters said. Physical distancing, mask wearing, and hygiene habits are good tools to prevent the virus from spreading.

    “Certainly, it is likely that as we do move toward more familiar operations we will see more cases, and we are already seeing this in a number of states across the country,” she said. This is why strong testing, tracing, and isolation practices are a must.

    “As we give the virus more potential hosts, it will try and take advantage,” McPheeters added.

    If there is a “second wave,” health systems are prepared to handle it, she said. The country has also learned how to reduce mobility effectively via lockdown measures, and can do so in a targeted way going forward if needed.

    “We will need to keep a very close eye on the data and all of the new science we have developed in the past few months, and make sure that information is shared with the public and policymakers,” McPheeters said.

    Phase 1 to phase 3 reopening plans recommend that individuals who can stay at home should do so, said Amira Roess, PhD, MPH, a global health and epidemiology professor at George Mason University.

    “For as long as the virus is circulating in its current form, individuals are urged to continue to maintain social distance, wear masks in public, monitor their health, and to do their part to reduce the risk of infection to themselves and others,” she told Healthline.

    “As the country reopens, we have to remember that we are not yet out of the woods,” Roess added.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

    https://www.vumc.org/health-policy/p...eeters-phd-mph

    https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...s,-study-finds
    Last edited by drt1010; 06-19-2020 at 03:35 PM.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    “The greatest menace to freedom is an inert people.” - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  11. #6986
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    Jan 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Absolutely incorrect assumption. Without Lockdowns, Another 60 Million People in U.S. Could Have Developed COVID-19

    Face masks, staying home and social distancing helped stop the spread of COVID-19. Getty images
    Without interventions, COVID-19 cases would grow at an average of about 38 percent per day, meaning the number of cases would have doubled about every 2 days.

    Some people may mistake the success of this brief period of physical distancing with the end of the first wave.
    Physical distancing, mask wearing, and hygiene habits are good tools to prevent the virus from spreading and overwhelming hospitals.

    Going into lockdown during the COVID-19 pandemic prevented 60 million cases of the virus in America, according to a reportTrusted Source published this week in Nature journal.

    Government shutdowns prevented 285 million cases in China, the report found.

    “Social distancing works,” said Melissa McPheeters, PhD, MPH, a health policy research professor and co-director of the Center for Improving the Public’s Health Through Informatics at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.

    But we need to continue being cautious because the virus is still circulating, McPheeters told Healthline.

    Lockdowns helped save millions of lives, study finds
    Along with other interventions, physical distancing (aka social distancing) and lockdowns were effective in reducing infection rates.

    The economic and social costs of shutdown policies was highly visible, but the health benefits in terms of cases prevented or delayed was unseen, said Esther Rolf, a PhD student and one of the study authors from UC Berkeley.

    One of the most surprising findings was how high the baseline growth rates of infections were — meaning how quickly the cases would have grown without lockdowns.

    Without interventions, COVID-19 cases would grow at an average of about 38 percent per day, meaning the number of cases would have doubled about every 2 days.

    “That is a very high baseline growth rate, and it is remarkably consistent across all countries in our sample except Iran,” Rolf said. Because polices were enacted, the growth rate was reduced significantly, she said.

    Another reportTrusted Source said quarantines saved about 3.1 million lives in 11 countries throughout Europe alone. In the United States, if 60 million cases were averted, that could translate to hundreds of thousands of lives saved over recent months.

    Thomas Glass, PhD, a retired professor of epidemiology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, said that physical distancing can lower the rate of disease transmission.

    “All it really does is spread them out over a longer period of time,” he said.

    How much contact those with the virus have with people who are susceptible is the most crucial factor in dampening the potential for exponential transmission, like what we saw in April, Glass explained.

    “People still are under the false belief that this is a sprint to an end to the epidemic. It’s not. It’s a marathon to herd immunity through the population getting infected or vaccinated,” he said.

    “To claim that 60 million infections have been prevented is to miss the point. All we have done is slowed things down to a more manageable pace, which at the moment is 20,000 new cases a day,” Glass pointed out.

    Resurgence
    While many people talk about a “second wave,” Glass doesn’t like to use the term because it can be confusing for many people.

    “Show me the evidence that the first one is over,” he said. “This wave is not over, it’s just shifting terrain, moving from patch to patch.”

    Some people may mistake the success of this brief period of physical distancing with the end of the first wave.

    “I believe we are now seeing a resurgence of cases as a result of reopening,” Glass said, adding that it will “continue and accelerate.”

    He doubts people will adhere to re-engagement of stay-at-home orders if they’re put in place. Although he thinks some will voluntarily stay home.

    “It’s going to be a very bumpy summer. And yes, there will be additional wavelets in the fall,” he said. When cold and flu season starts, heat and humidity wane, and people spend more time indoors, there will be a “substantial resurgence.”

    “We are nowhere near herd immunity,” Glass said. “Until there is a vaccine, and even after there is, it is likely to be repeated waves of transmission intensity.

    Staying safe
    “We need to remain vigilant,” McPheeters said. Physical distancing, mask wearing, and hygiene habits are good tools to prevent the virus from spreading.

    “Certainly, it is likely that as we do move toward more familiar operations we will see more cases, and we are already seeing this in a number of states across the country,” she said. This is why strong testing, tracing, and isolation practices are a must.

    “As we give the virus more potential hosts, it will try and take advantage,” McPheeters added.

    If there is a “second wave,” health systems are prepared to handle it, she said. The country has also learned how to reduce mobility effectively via lockdown measures, and can do so in a targeted way going forward if needed.

    “We will need to keep a very close eye on the data and all of the new science we have developed in the past few months, and make sure that information is shared with the public and policymakers,” McPheeters said.

    Phase 1 to phase 3 reopening plans recommend that individuals who can stay at home should do so, said Amira Roess, PhD, MPH, a global health and epidemiology professor at George Mason University.

    “For as long as the virus is circulating in its current form, individuals are urged to continue to maintain social distance, wear masks in public, monitor their health, and to do their part to reduce the risk of infection to themselves and others,” she told Healthline.

    “As the country reopens, we have to remember that we are not yet out of the woods,” Roess added.

    https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...loped-covid-19

    https://www.vumc.org/health-policy/p...eeters-phd-mph

    https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...s,-study-finds
    “ Could have”is not saying it is a fact . They also said after the lockdowns started that millions would die and it didn’t happen . Again the lockdowns didn’t stop the virus it just slowed it down , even the article stated that , just not in the same words . And since we can’t be in lockdown forever , there will always be large spike happening every few weeks because as the article says “ we are not out of the woods” .

  12. #6987
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    I give up. Logic, reason, data, expert opinion all fall on deaf ears. You believe what you will. Defend the dotard and swallow the narrative whole, but realize you do so at your own peril.
    "Dante once said that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality,” JFK 1963.
    “The greatest menace to freedom is an inert people.” - Ruth Bader Ginsburg
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin




  13. #6988
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    I give up. Logic, reason, data, expert opinion all fall on deaf ears. You believe what you will. Defend the dotard and swallow the narrative whole, but realize you do so at your own peril.
    The article said itself said that the lockdown didn’t stop the virus . And common sense dictates that if there are spikes of the virus still going on across the country that the virus was never stopped . Yes the lock downs slowed the virus but it didn’t stop it , that is my point .
    Last edited by Posada20; 06-19-2020 at 03:55 PM.

  14. #6989
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    Stop. Of course.
    Could have fooled me.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  15. #6990
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    If people are allowed to protests, destroy property cause violence and Covid was still around so then why it is bad for Trump’s rally tomorrow?

    Why are there complaints from the opposition with regards to Covid-19?

    People had no issue with the protests and their closeness to one another and not wearing masks or having temperatures checked before the protest but the same do now with Trump’s rally.
    What a shock that you see no difference between these two types of gatherings.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

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