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  1. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    This is where you have to use critical thinking...

    Fox News: Trump is the greatest president in US history!
    CNN: Trump is a notch below Hitler
    MSNBC: Trump is an angry orange man!

    Of course these comments aren't real "news".


    Now then, these supposed news networks are filled with hot biased takes. I didn't refute they have an agenda. Nevertheless, they were REPORTING on actual facts in the article when it comes to the assessment made by the CDC and NIH.

    Fox News/CNN/MSNBC: New York remains the biggest hotspot infected by the Coronavirus according to the CDC's latest report.

    A broken clock is right twice a day... While they are always giving opinions on the news/politicians, they do on occasion report on the news. What I specifically quoted CAN BE FACT CHECKED! Don't take my word for it.

    I think you're mistaking my pointing this out as my claiming you said x y or z. I don't care if you said x y or z, I'm just stating facts which contradict your claims any organization was "gutted" and the leftists claims anything was defunded. Yes, the facts come from networks that care more about ratings than delivering the news, nevertheless, if they report "1 plus 1 equals 2"... they aren't wrong.

    Bottom line, get over who reported the facts... research it to see if they are true before you continue to spread misinformation. lol
    Just a month before the first coronavirus cases emerged in China, a two-year CSIS commission, which included six members of Congress, health experts, and former U.S. and military officials warned that they were “sounding the alarm that the U.S. government is caught in a cycle of crisis and complacency” when it came to preparing the country for a pandemic. As its very first recommendation, the commission urged the White House to restore health security leadership at the NSC.
    https://time.com/5806558/administrat...ght-criticism/

    “One year later I was mystified when the White House dissolved the office, leaving the country less prepared for pandemics like COVID-19,” Beth Cameron, the first director of the unit, wrote in an op-ed Friday in The Washington Post.

    She said the directorate was set up to be the “smoke alarm” and get ahead of emergencies and sound a warning at the earliest sign of fire — “all with the goal of avoiding a six-alarm fire.”
    https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a

    We were warned in 2018, on the 100th anniversary of the flu pandemic of 1918, which killed 50 to 100 million people around the world. My colleague Ed Yong served notice that the “next plague” was coming, with influenza the most dangerous possibility, even as the United States succumbed to “forgetfulness and shortsightedness.” Luciana Borio, then the director for medical and biodefense preparedness at the National Security Council, told a symposium that “the threat of pandemic flu is our number-one health security concern.” Serving under a president who’d come to office on the pledge to wall off the United States, she noted that such a threat could not “be stopped at the border.” The very next day, news broke that National Security Adviser John Bolton had shuttered the NSC’s unit for preparing and responding to pandemics, of which Borio was a part. The White House official in charge of spearheading such a response to infectious threats departed as well and was not replaced.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...mp-cdc/608215/

    Explain to me what misinformation I am spreading again?

  2. #647
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    Everybody in here trying to prove "their" group of politicians who don't give a **** about you is the best.


    Rippin' lips son!!

  3. #648
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    Welp, the USA has more cases than any other country now.

  4. #649
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    I don't think you're reading everything I'm saying. I've said, literally, everything you just posted. I also stated that Trumps downfall was not replacing the "head coach" or leadership position... Instead they "reorganized" it which effectively made it less organized and less efficient. Hence, he messed up, but that wouldn't have changed what is currently happen with the Coronavirus.

    “The Global Health Security directorate was absorbed into another directorate where similar responsibilities still exist at the National Security Council but under different titles,” a senior administration official tells TIME
    From your own source, it explains NOTHING was gutted... The duties were all there. You have not explicitly stated any agency was defunded, Biden and the Democrats have lied about that... you merely spread the misinformation that it was "gutted". Nothing was gutted... read your own article. lol
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  5. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZNC View Post
    Everybody in here trying to prove "their" group of politicians who don't give a **** about you is the best.
    Sadly, I don't have a political group. Both are sicker and astronomically more deadly than this virus.
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  6. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    I don't think you're reading everything I'm saying. I've said, literally, everything you just posted. I also stated that Trumps downfall was not replacing the "head coach" or leadership position... Instead they "reorganized" it which effectively made it less organized and less efficient. Hence, he messed up, but that wouldn't have changed what is currently happen with the Coronavirus.



    From your own source, it explains NOTHING was gutted... The duties were all there. You have not explicitly stated any agency was defunded, Biden and the Democrats have lied about that... you merely spread the misinformation that it was "gutted". Nothing was gutted... read your own article. lol
    Again, I did not say any "agency was defunded". The directorate at the NSC was removed, cutting the staff at the NSC from over 200 to around 115. You are once again arguing against things I DID NOT SAY. You wanna believe Dems lied or exaggerated anything, that's your prerogative. But you are saying that I am spreading misinformation and that is patently untrue. You are deliberately rewording what I'm saying into something you can try to refute, which is a STRAWMAN ARGUMENT.
    Last edited by IndyRealist; 03-26-2020 at 07:14 PM.

  7. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    Again, I did not say any "agency was defunded". The directorate at the NSC was removed, cutting the staff at the NSC from over 200 to around 115. You are once again arguing against things I DID NOT SAY. You wanna believe Dems lied or exaggerated anything, that's your prerogative. But you are saying that I am spreading misinformation and that is patently untrue. You are deliberately rewording what I'm saying into something you can try to refute, which is a STRAWMAN ARGUMENT.


    You are either Joe Biden or are proving my point you don't read shiz that I write. To continue discussing further is pointless... though, I do appreciate you attempting to bring sustenance to this discussion.
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  8. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post


    You are either Joe Biden or are proving my point you don't read shiz that I write. To continue discussing further is pointless... though, I do appreciate you attempting to bring sustenance to this discussion.
    I did missconstrue that statement.

    So your issue is with the word "gutted"? The NSC was cut in half, directorate charged with pandemic response was dissolved. That is the definition of gutted.

    If your work removed half the people in your department, and then said that you had to do twice the work to cover, you don't think that would affect the outcomes of your job?
    Last edited by IndyRealist; 03-26-2020 at 07:33 PM.

  9. #654
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    To anyone who is willing to read:

    Fact: Trump never replaced the leadership position in the NSC because he and his people felt the NSC was bloated and had too many chefs in the kitchen. Instead, congress increased funding (even though Trump proposed a reduction pre-coronavirus) and "reorganized" it.

    Fact: Trump closed the border to China in January and was called a racist for it. Not everyone on the left took a dump on Trump about it, but many did.

    Opinion by the Left: "Gutting" and "defunding" pandemic strategy agencies is why the Coronavirus is as bad as it is. It slowed our defense to it down.

    Opinion by the right: Reorganizing the NSC helped streamline response time to the Coronavirus. It needed to be done.

    NOT PROVEN FACTUAL:
    Right wing: Reorganizing increased efficiency (I actually agree with the left on this one, but it's just my opinion).
    Left wing: "Gutting" and "defunding" these essential agencies hindered our defense and attack on the Coronavirus.
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  10. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    Fair enough. What should he have done in hindsight? Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but I'm curious what you think he should have done differently.
    I know, with the help of 20/20 hindsight, what we should do: vote Trump the **** out. This is yet another reason why electing a “businessesman” to the presidency is a bad idea. He personally is losing money so he wants us all back and “raring to go” by Easter.

  11. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyRealist View Post
    I did missconstrue that statement.

    So your issue is with the word "gutted"? The NSC was cut in half, directorate charged with pandemic response was dissolved. That is the definition of gutted.

    If your work removed half the people in your department, and then said that you had to do twice the work to cover, you don't think that would affect the outcomes of your job?
    Before I was an attorney, I worked with several lobbyists and politicians and can speak first hand on how excellent they are at wasting tax-payer money. The only thing they are better at doing than that is creating more unnecessary positions in government that could be done by already existing positions.

    I'm playing devil's advocate right now because I actually think by Trump not having a head chef, he more than likely delayed our defense against the Coronavirus (this is just my opinion). However, this doesn't mean I think he "gutted" the NSC or "defunded" as the left has mentioned. It was a big topic at the Democratic debates which was the first time I was aware of it. I actually believed it at the time until a colleague of mine showed me the fact check.

    I understand your analogy... My playing devil's advocate and looking at it from Trump's point of view, I would make a different analogy. If you owned a restaurant with 20 head chefs, wouldn't you think that was a terrible business model in need of change asap? There are entirely too many chefs in the kitchen. The 20 head chefs can be repositioned (they use the word 'reorganized') while doing the SAME duties they were doing before, just under different titles. Instead of the title of "head-chef", there would only be 1x head-chef, 1x sous-chef, and 18 cooks. The goal would be to streamline dinner services, not have 20 head chefs arguing with each other. Trump just repositioned 20x chefs and turned them into cooks and made himself the head-chef and Mike Pence the sous-chef. He isn't fit to be head-chef. lol

    Only time will tell which one was more pragmatic. There is no way to know as of this moment, even if I MAY agree with you.
    Last edited by Redrum187; 03-26-2020 at 07:56 PM.
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  12. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    Before I was an attorney, I worked with several lobbyists and politicians and can speak first hand on how excellent they are at wasting tax-payer money. The only thing they are better at doing than that is creating more unnecessary positions in government that could be done by already existing positions.

    I'm playing devil's advocate right now because I actually think by Trump not having a head chef, he more than likely delayed our defense against the Coronavirus (this is just my opinion). However, this doesn't mean I think he "gutted" the NSC or "defunded" as the left has mentioned. It was a big topic at the Democratic debates which was the first time I was aware of it. I actually believed it at the time until a colleague of mine showed me the fact check.

    I understand your analogy... My playing devil's advocate and looking at it from Trump's point of view, I would make a different analogy. If you owned a restaurant with 20 head chefs, wouldn't you think that was a terrible business model in need of change asap? There are entirely too many chefs in the kitchen. The 20 head chefs can be repositioned (they use the word 'reorganized') while doing the SAME duties they were doing before, just under different titles. The goal would be to streamline dinner services, not have 20 head chefs arguing with each other.

    Only time will tell which one was more pragmatic. There is no way to know as of this moment, even if I MAY agree with you.
    You are absolutely right that it is not proven that one choice or another would have made a difference. You can never "prove" something like that. But where we will probably end up is looking at the preponderance of the evidence and decide that it was more or less likely to have been a contributing factor to this mess. That's how negligence is decided, right?

  13. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    Before I was an attorney, I worked with several lobbyists and politicians and can speak first hand on how excellent they are at wasting tax-payer money. The only thing they are better at doing than that is creating more unnecessary positions in government that could be done by already existing positions.

    I'm playing devil's advocate right now because I actually think by Trump not having a head chef, he more than likely delayed our defense against the Coronavirus (this is just my opinion). However, this doesn't mean I think he "gutted" the NSC or "defunded" as the left has mentioned. It was a big topic at the Democratic debates which was the first time I was aware of it. I actually believed it at the time until a colleague of mine showed me the fact check.

    I understand your analogy... My playing devil's advocate and looking at it from Trump's point of view, I would make a different analogy. If you owned a restaurant with 20 head chefs, wouldn't you think that was a terrible business model in need of change asap? There are entirely too many chefs in the kitchen. The 20 head chefs can be repositioned (they use the word 'reorganized') while doing the SAME duties they were doing before, just under different titles. The goal would be to streamline dinner services, not have 20 head chefs arguing with each other.

    Only time will tell which one was more pragmatic. There is no way to know as of this moment, even if I MAY agree with you.
    Who said that there were 20 “chefs”? Who said that 200 was too many workers? Would you fire those 20 chefs (using your analogy) but not keep one to be the “head chef” or not get a new one? Why were the “head chefs” “arguing with each other”? Who said that? How do you know that there was “too many” workers in this specific department? Who said that they were doing the “same duties”? Isn’t that sorta why we’re in this position since apparently we were the most prepared nation for this while now being the leader of cases (with a vast shortage of tests so no telling how many more are secretly infected)?

    You’re an attorney? Every argument you’ve ever given here at PSD has been full of holes, half truths and conjecture. You keep giving us “facts” and then come up with this garbage?
    Last edited by Saddletramp; 03-26-2020 at 08:09 PM.

  14. #659
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    Well, a little perspective. Roughly 30 people were fired at my job today.

  15. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA all the way View Post
    Well, a little perspective. Roughly 30 people were fired at my job today.
    I know they were forcing you to come in. Did people refuse?

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