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  1. #1846
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Well considering I never said anything about some people making decisions not to and this is the 2nd time you responded to the same post without addressing my last one I think I should be the one saying WTF lol.

    If we open up people will be forced to choose between going out and putting others at risk and losing their job etc. You keep whining about some people having this issue now without ever being specific how they weren't covered in the 2 trillion plan and now are pushing to open and potentially force them into making that decision. Unless you are saying we pass another 2 trillion package for some to decide to stay home while others can go out and make it worse etc. short term then my guess is most people would actually still stay at home and avoid the morons. Otherwise of course people will go out if you force them into deciding that or living, which is why we have these orders and so on so they don't have to make that decision. As the polls showed people are generally more worried about opening up to quick, do you understand that? This idea we should open up for a few is just like saying why can't a few of us do coke/hookers? That isn't how America works we don't just break/create new laws that apply to some who want to because they keep whining freedom lol.

    I have no idea what this rambling is about, it would have been much easierjust to acknowledge we don't have absolute freedom to do whatever we want in this country. Those that keep whining about it constantly during the pandemic like has been shown/discussed are being selfish/entitled which is why they get rightfully vilified often.
    1) If we give people the option to sit at home and not work and make the same amount of money (or more) as if they went to work. Many will take that option regardless of their concern for the current pandemic.

    2) We currently are opening up for a few. Mayors, governors and more of these same people oppressing the public are still going to gyms every day, they are still getting their hair done. They are creating these rules to limit regular citizens to have the same quality of life as they do. If these people were really acting in our best interest. There is no way they would be out getting their roots done. Its a power grab and they are treating the public like they are lesser human beings. It is disgusting how many people just blindly follow these guidelines without even considering the implications of them not following the same rules.

    3) They are being vilified to prevent others for standing up for their rights. The government wants people 100% dependent on them for every single freedom. That makes it easier to pass laws and get people to agree to things. They are using fear as a tool. If they believed there was really something to be fearful of, they wouldn't be out doing the things they are telling average people to avoid. They also would show some level of compassion and appreciation for what everyone has given up during all of this. Innocent people are giving away their freedom......throwing their quality of life down the drain (possibly for generations). People are giving up their dreams.....


    and despite the relief package and enhanced unemployment- there are still people and businesses that are not being made whole.

    A) Most of the forgivable loans to businesses are primarily designed to cover payroll and keep jobs. (Which isnt a bad thing)- but businesses have other expenses. Insurances, Property Leases, Equipment leases, mortgages, inventory on consignment, etc.

    Also- Many of the companies that need the sba loans the most are the ones having the most trouble getting the funds from the banks.

    B) The loans are designed for businesses with less than 500 employees. J Crew just filed bankruptcy last week and Nordstrom announced that they are shutting down like 90 stores in the next 3-6 months. IM not saying you have to be a fan of those stores- but those are a lot of lost jobs.

    C) The 1200 dollars was a joke. Im hesitant I would even waste time doing it, but if so it should have been more. It should have been targeted to people who needed it- not people living in states that never shut down. Should not be going to people who didnt lose any income (IE SSi recipients, pension recipients, essential workers who are getting hazard pay etc.)

    D) Unemployment benefits are only for people making less than 130k per year. The people making more than that may also have expenses. I realize they shouldn't be the first priority but im not sure they should be ignored either.


    * On the bigger picture, dumping trillions of dollars into an economy that is currently producing next to nothing is not a good idea. Eventually it leads to a ton of money chasing few goods and services. In other words- it creates inflation and makes peoples life savings worth less.

    * Further more it isnt the best way to run an economy. An economy is most succesful when people are allowed to buy and produce goods and services. The economic experts are the ones we should be listening too because their concerns are more consistent. They all agree that this was bad a month ago, and this will be bad next month as well. The science experts differ in opinions and they seem to be all over the place from month to month.

  2. #1847
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Yup and it is pretty obvious how this works generally when people aren't so hypocritical/have double standards around this stuff often due to politics (again CK great example of the hypocrisy). Protesting is fine, the way it is done is the issue. People tried applying this logic to CK when reality is he did it by kneeling not going against state orders in a pandemic. He went against feelings, these people are going against state orders to keep our society safe during a pandemic. It is very very obvious if this was ever about how it was done who would clearly be in the wrong and who just went against some peoples opinions.

    As shown a large majority get this, it is just a chunk of people often tied with a political agenda that fight/whine because they want something else/it affects what they personally want. As if that has never happened to anyone else before and they are major victims for being forced to follow rules to protect society as a whole.
    Not sure what CK has to do with all of this. I dont think he should have been vilified either. I dont think he should be fined. I dont think he should be in jail. I personally wouldnt treat him like hes a hero though.

    Also a different kind of protest..... CK was protesting to create awareness. He wasnt really looking to solve any specific problem. I havent seen him specify anything in a specific trial that he didnt agree with.

    The people protesting the lock down are asking for something very very specific (END THE LOCKDOWN and run the country the way its been successfully ran for the last 400 years), and its a problem the government is 100% responsible for. The government also has the ability to fix it tomorrow if they choose.


    The more ok the government thinks the people are with these lock downs.... the longer they are going to hold them in place. its about power. People feel like the only way out is to try and fight for their freedoms or they could end up like this for the rest of their lives.

  3. #1848
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    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    first amendment isnt something that gets turned on and off. People are being deprived of the ability to prosper and make the most out of their lives. They are treating the general population like they are on health arrest when these people have done nothing wrong. They didnt even do this crap during the spanish flu!!
    100 years ago was a totally different time.

    And yes, Iíve already answered why the 1st Anendment doesnít apply here. You seem to have a lotof time on your hands. Go back and find it.

  4. #1849
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    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    1) If we give people the option to sit at home and not work and make the same amount of money (or more) as if they went to work. Many will take that option regardless of their concern for the current pandemic.

    2) We currently are opening up for a few. Mayors, governors and more of these same people oppressing the public are still going to gyms every day, they are still getting their hair done. They are creating these rules to limit regular citizens to have the same quality of life as they do. If these people were really acting in our best interest. There is no way they would be out getting their roots done. Its a power grab and they are treating the public like they are lesser human beings. It is disgusting how many people just blindly follow these guidelines without even considering the implications of them not following the same rules.

    3) They are being vilified to prevent others for standing up for their rights. The government wants people 100% dependent on them for every single freedom. That makes it easier to pass laws and get people to agree to things. They are using fear as a tool. If they believed there was really something to be fearful of, they wouldn't be out doing the things they are telling average people to avoid. They also would show some level of compassion and appreciation for what everyone has given up during all of this. Innocent people are giving away their freedom......throwing their quality of life down the drain (possibly for generations). People are giving up their dreams.....


    and despite the relief package and enhanced unemployment- there are still people and businesses that are not being made whole.

    A) Most of the forgivable loans to businesses are primarily designed to cover payroll and keep jobs. (Which isnt a bad thing)- but businesses have other expenses. Insurances, Property Leases, Equipment leases, mortgages, inventory on consignment, etc.

    Also- Many of the companies that need the sba loans the most are the ones having the most trouble getting the funds from the banks.

    B) The loans are designed for businesses with less than 500 employees. J Crew just filed bankruptcy last week and Nordstrom announced that they are shutting down like 90 stores in the next 3-6 months. IM not saying you have to be a fan of those stores- but those are a lot of lost jobs.

    C) The 1200 dollars was a joke. Im hesitant I would even waste time doing it, but if so it should have been more. It should have been targeted to people who needed it- not people living in states that never shut down. Should not be going to people who didnt lose any income (IE SSi recipients, pension recipients, essential workers who are getting hazard pay etc.)

    D) Unemployment benefits are only for people making less than 130k per year. The people making more than that may also have expenses. I realize they shouldn't be the first priority but im not sure they should be ignored either.


    * On the bigger picture, dumping trillions of dollars into an economy that is currently producing next to nothing is not a good idea. Eventually it leads to a ton of money chasing few goods and services. In other words- it creates inflation and makes peoples life savings worth less.

    * Further more it isnt the best way to run an economy. An economy is most succesful when people are allowed to buy and produce goods and services. The economic experts are the ones we should be listening too because their concerns are more consistent. They all agree that this was bad a month ago, and this will be bad next month as well. The science experts differ in opinions and they seem to be all over the place from month to month.
    1. I bet a good chunk would, that doesn't change anything.

    2. Rich/powerful people get more benefits in life and in this country that gap is pretty wide. Yup that is true, sorry that is how it currently works here. Still not a meaningful point, just because some do something does not mean it is an excuse for everyone to then do whatever that bad things is. That is just childish to point a finger at a couple others to excuse behavior, people follow the rules in a pandemic because that is the normal/sane thing to do. The ones pushing so hard like this against them are the ones who should be asking themselves why? I did and got prom and then a couple aspects I explained were covered. I got a person gaining off this financially for pushing a political agenda. It's almost like the one's going to these extremes are being pushed/motivated politically.

    3. They are being vilified for being extremists. They are going against state orders during a pandemic potentially risking the safety of others (unless you want to tell me none of them ever came in close proximity to anyone else that wasn't there). Yes they are using fake fear like that women who had a clear agenda as a tool. Her business was eligible for a loan but instead she made a political stand to get a win. You simply like the politics aspect they are pushing this is so obvious at this point. ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE IS FOLLOWING THE RULES TOO. This isn't some woah is me lol. They are being asked to respect others during a pandemic and realize their wants are not as important as others lives.

    A.
    I agree that there are likely some holes here but this is where we need to get specific and call for help for these people in those ways. I also agree that some have had issues/this was handled very poorly overall. My dad owns his own small business actually and had to go through the process with some issues given the nature but he ended up getting what was needed. This is a completely different point than freedom on repeat and while valid is not reason alone to just start doing all this stuff without first trying a proper route (legally, making the issue public and so on but screaming freedom/breaking laws/putting yourself and anyone coming in vicinity in future at risk etc. is not making an issue like this public).

    https://www.nytimes.com/article/smal...ronavirus.html
    "The government has also expanded the existing economic injury disaster loan program, which offers low-interest loans to cover most business expenses. A portion of those loans do not have to be paid back."

    B. I agree that some larger companies and so on will also be affected. There are some holes as mentioned above and we should call for more help to businesses in need and this time try and do a better job of making sure it goes to who/where it is really needed (kinda think the Lakers are ok). Again this is a different point, I do have sympathy for people who want to explain they have issues like this but I haven't seen it done once. It is mostly about other complaints. I am willing to sacrifice some companies over peoples lives though so in the end I don't think this will overly change the argument and I acknowledge some businesses will end up closing.

    C. It should be more and many have called for much more. This is a political issue where it comes down to party battles often, some have called for 2000 per month to people. The issue is the people riling up to get people out there and going to extremes don't want more payments like this to ensure people are covered. "That's Socialism!"

    D. I don't think we need to prioritize those making that much but I would agree they should have the potential maybe for a loan program if you are over that amount. Something can be done they don't need to be neglected but we can't even get A/B/C right yet so let's start with those first I would say as it likely is covering those who need help a little more than those making that much (and may have a 2nd house or boat and so on they could sell or downgrade from where they are while others don't have options near that).

    *I agree this is not a long term strategy, this is a pandemic that we are trying to handle.

    *Economy often has mixed expert opinions and often is used to split people into teams politically like is being done here. I think some people need to realize their beliefs on how the economy works are not more important than other peoples lives. That goes for left/center/right if anyone is taking the approach some of these people are it is not good. People are often vilified for breaking rules, spring breakers just wanted their freedom too but they got mocked by some initially and used as an example of not taking it serious. That is how it works, people aren't mocking that others have different economic beliefs they are mocking the selfishness/entitlement about those beliefs and trying to push them on others during a pandemic instead of listening to medicine/experts/following the rules in place and when there are issues you don't whine/break them in this manner if it is legitimate issues because no one has any idea you have real issues when you are busy screaming freedom over and over in mass.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 05-10-2020 at 04:09 PM.

  5. #1850
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    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    Not sure what CK has to do with all of this. I dont think he should have been vilified either. I dont think he should be fined. I dont think he should be in jail. I personally wouldnt treat him like hes a hero though.

    Also a different kind of protest..... CK was protesting to create awareness. He wasnt really looking to solve any specific problem. I havent seen him specify anything in a specific trial that he didnt agree with.

    The people protesting the lock down are asking for something very very specific (END THE LOCKDOWN and run the country the way its been successfully ran for the last 400 years), and its a problem the government is 100% responsible for. The government also has the ability to fix it tomorrow if they choose.


    The more ok the government thinks the people are with these lock downs.... the longer they are going to hold them in place. its about power. People feel like the only way out is to try and fight for their freedoms or they could end up like this for the rest of their lives.
    He was mentioned earlier in the thread, I just think it is interesting how people bashing him was ok to many and now they whine about these people going to further extremes getting bashed. It was just funny to see it in here too and I think it shows that the issue isn't about how someone protests it's the issue they are protesting. In this case these people are handling this all horribly and actually breaking state orders. If it was ever about the HOW this is the bad way during a pandemic while kneeling is getting into peoples feelings.

    They both are political protests, it was about racial inequality and police brutality for CK and opening up during the pandemic for others. You just agree with the message one is trying to send so you defend it but not the other. The messages are different as I said but the difference is the HOW. That is what everyone said CK got bashed for when they did it but now we see those same people defend this BS with a far worse how. Even if their message is better the HOW is clearly worse and not just about peoples feels but going against state orders/medicine/science.

  6. #1851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    100 years ago was a totally different time.

    And yes, Iíve already answered why the 1st Anendment doesnít apply here. You seem to have a lotof time on your hands. Go back and find it.
    good day to you too saddle....

  7. #1852
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    [QUOTE=mngopher35;33477743]
    He was mentioned earlier in the thread, I just think it is interesting how people bashing him was ok to many and now they whine about these people going to further extremes getting bashed. It was just funny to see it in here too and I think it shows that the issue isn't about how someone protests it's the issue they are protesting. In this case these people are handling this all horribly and actually breaking state orders. If it was ever about the HOW this is the bad way during a pandemic while kneeling is getting into peoples feelings.
    LOL, I found this funny. The people are protesting the orders!!! The people are concerned about losing all their dreams and their futures. They are scared because their Lives are changing very very very fast and they lost control over everything.... there also is no end date in sight.

    They both are political protests, it was about racial inequality and police brutality for CK and opening up during the pandemic for others. You just agree with the message one is trying to send so you defend it but not the other. The messages are different as I said but the difference is the HOW. That is what everyone said CK got bashed for when they did it but now we see those same people defend this BS with a far worse how. Even if their message is better the HOW is clearly worse and not just about peoples feels but going against state orders/medicine/science.
    IM not sure they are both political protests. I think a lot of the people protesting have personal concerns about themselves and their lives that have nothing to do with a political affiliation.

    However, most of the people defending peoples right to protest are conservative. I actually dont know why liberals are more in favor of the lock down and conservatives are more against it. I dont know if its because Trump has said he has a desire to open up so liberals immediately hate that idea, or if conservatives value control over their own lives more so than liberals. It might be just media on both sides pushing different narratives. Id be interested if anyone had any good answers for how this issue became so political.

    Side note- I actually dont think there will be another stimulus package coming out for people. Ive heard liberals push an idea of up to 5500 a month for a family of 5 for up to 12 months. Conservatives like Lindsey Graham have said theyd rather put more money into capacity for hospitals to handle a spike when we open up.

  8. #1853
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    [QUOTE=likemystylez;33477763]
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post

    LOL, I found this funny. The people are protesting the orders!!! The people are concerned about losing all their dreams and their futures. They are scared because their Lives are changing very very very fast and they lost control over everything.... there also is no end date in sight.



    IM not sure they are both political protests. I think a lot of the people protesting have personal concerns about themselves and their lives that have nothing to do with a political affiliation.

    However, most of the people defending peoples right to protest are conservative. I actually dont know why liberals are more in favor of the lock down and conservatives are more against it. I dont know if its because Trump has said he has a desire to open up so liberals immediately hate that idea, or if conservatives value control over their own lives more so than liberals. It might be just media on both sides pushing different narratives. Id be interested if anyone had any good answers for how this issue became so political.

    Side note- I actually dont think there will be another stimulus package coming out for people. Ive heard liberals push an idea of up to 5500 a month for a family of 5 for up to 12 months. Conservatives like Lindsey Graham have said theyd rather put more money into capacity for hospitals to handle a spike when we open up.
    Yes, Colin Kapernick was protesting cops brutality and he didn't go out in mass at them breaking orders and he didn't go against science/medicine potentially putting others at risk, he knelt during the anthem lol. Many people are scared about things in their lives related to racism/police brutality too. Again you just like one groups political message is the key here.

    Political protests often happen because people have concern lol. People are concerned they get treated badly/attacked for their race. They fear cops overstepping an possibly killing a family member and so on. Fear is not an excuse to go overboard in your reaction though. You are excusing it here, again, because you agree this time.

    What do you mean? Trump tweeted CK should be suspended etc. they were calling for action because he protested. I think you are generalizing conservatives/liberals wrong here but do agree it fits a media narrative. I have pointed out repeatedly Trump making this thing political as opposed to going with science/experts. A lot of things in this country have just come down to this political game instead of common sense and having the same standards. I actually think as we bring race up many often assume others have a double standards due to racism (like some accused others of with CK) when the reality is they didn't like the political message more than anything and let that political bias get in the way more than everyone is racist.

    I agree nothing will actually happen because the politicians just play each side against each other over and over. The politics are both driving some peoples response as they get caught up in it and why we aren't actually taking real/better steps toward handling this.

  9. #1854
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    [QUOTE=mngopher35;33477769]
    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post

    Yes, Colin Kapernick was protesting cops brutality and he didn't go out in mass at them breaking orders and he didn't go against science/medicine potentially putting others at risk, he knelt during the anthem lol. Many people are scared about things in their lives related to racism/police brutality too. Again you just like one groups political message is the key here.

    Political protests often happen because people have concern lol. People are concerned they get treated badly/attacked for their race. They fear cops overstepping an possibly killing a family member and so on. Fear is not an excuse to go overboard in your reaction though. You are excusing it here, again, because you agree this time.

    What do you mean? Trump tweeted CK should be suspended etc. they were calling for action because he protested. I think you are generalizing conservatives/liberals wrong here but do agree it fits a media narrative. I have pointed out repeatedly Trump making this thing political as opposed to going with science/experts. A lot of things in this country have just come down to this political game instead of common sense and having the same standards. I actually think as we bring race up many often assume others have a double standards due to racism (like some accused others of with CK) when the reality is they didn't like the political message more than anything and let that political bias get in the way more than everyone is racist.

    I agree nothing will actually happen because the politicians just play each side against each other over and over. The politics are both driving some peoples response as they get caught up in it and why we aren't actually taking real/better steps toward handling this.
    This is a little bit more serious of an issue than what CK was protesting. He was vaguely protesting the number of blacks being mistreated by the criminal justice system. I dont remember him ever calling out any specific affidavit, line of questioning, or piece of evidence that he had a problem with. He just didnt like the total number of blacks killed by police. (Doesnt matter if they attacked the cop, they refused to put down a gun). CK was protesting an issue that directly effected a very small percentage of people. Also a huge portion of cops have not killed anybody of any race. The shut down issue is the entire government destroying the lives of Millions and millions of people. This is systematic oppression.... not a few one off debatable situations here and there.

    And those protests did put people in danger. I live in the bay area. I have 2 friends that are police officers. They had to incentivize police officers to work security at 49er games for a while because because police were legitimately scared they would be attacked. So yes- Cops all over the country were in more danger.

    I think trumps biggest concern was that he was disrespecting the american flag.....and for a while when some football players still saluted the flag, those players were shamed by the media.
    Last edited by likemystylez; 05-10-2020 at 04:56 PM.

  10. #1855
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    Coronavirus; NBA season suspended

    [QUOTE=likemystylez;33477787]
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post

    This is a little bit more serious of an issue than what CK was protesting. He was vaguely protesting the number of blacks being mistreated by the criminal justice system. I dont remember him ever calling out any specific affidavit, line of questioning, or piece of evidence that he had a problem with. He just didnt like the total number of blacks killed by police. (Doesnt matter if they attacked the cop, they refused to put down a gun). CK was protesting an issue that directly effected a very small percentage of people. Also a huge portion of cops have not killed anybody of any race. The shut down issue is the entire government destroying the lives of Millions and millions of people. This is systematic oppression.... not a few one off debatable situations here and there.

    And those protests did put people in danger. I live in the bay area. I have 2 friends that are police officers. They had to incentivize police officers to work security at 49er games for a while because because police were legitimately scared they would be attacked. So yes- Cops all over the country were in more danger.
    Yes it is more serious due to the pandemic which makes doing it in this manner even more dangerous/worse is part of the point. These people are vaguely protesting a lock down, that is the point and he did call out some specific issues over time you should look into all the times he has talked on the issue maybe. However I bet plenty of people feel differently about which is more important/hurting their community in general. That is my point, you feel this is important so you excuse behavior that you would never accept elsewhere. People are mocking that behavior and you are getting mad but not understanding you wouldn't allow this approach UNLESS it fit your political viewpoint and you personally see it as a big enough political issue to warrant behavior.

    So again you agreeing personally with this political stance is why you are defending this. It is alright that you have certain beliefs and it is also alright people mock and call out those being very selfish/entitled. If CK were to start putting others lives at risk going against state orders/medicine and so on I would change my mind about his approach too because I don't care either way about the politics. I am pointing out the way each handled it and the extreme entitlement/selfishness shown which is leading to criticism that is far more deserving.

    You can think whatever you want about each issue but the way it is being handled is clearly ridiculous/selfish/entitled from one group going against state orders/medicine to keep people safe while the other person kneeled and got into peoples feels. One is bad (going against orders/medicine and risking health of others) and probably should be vilified, the other is a difference of opinion on a political topic that someone handled without breaking orders or putting others at risk during a pandemic.

    Again protesting in general is not bad. If they had followed the measures in place and so on it would not have been as ridiculed but they were standing next to each other, with no masks, some armed etc. and so on. You can't justify what they are doing by using the pandemic then ignore that they are breaking orders during a pandemic putting others at risk and so on at the same time. That is a very key difference that makes their HOW significantly worse than simply kneeling peacefully.

    As for trump he is just a great example of the general selfish attitude and political game we talk about. He goes to extremes attacking others in a team/identity manner often. He has been downplaying it and encouraging this stuff in dangerous fashion throughout. It's what people expect though, he is the same way people just defend him for the same dumb political reasons and have clear double standards around him too often.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 05-10-2020 at 06:06 PM.

  11. #1856
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    [QUOTE=mngopher35;33477793]
    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post

    Yes it is more serious due to the pandemic which makes doing it in this manner even more dangerous/worse is part of the point. These people are vaguely protesting a lock down, that is the point and he did call out some specific issues over time you should look into all the times he has talked on the issue maybe. However I bet plenty of people feel differently about which is more important/hurting their community in general. That is my point, you feel this is important so you excuse behavior that you would never accept elsewhere. People are mocking that behavior and you are getting mad but not understanding you wouldn't allow this approach UNLESS it fit your political viewpoint and you personally see it as a big enough political issue to warrant behavior.

    So again you agreeing personally with this political stance is why you are defending this. It is alright that you have certain beliefs and it is also alright people mock and call out those being very selfish/entitled. If CK were to start putting others lives at risk going against state orders/medicine and so on I would change my mind about his approach too because I don't care either way about the politics. I am pointing out the way each handled it and the extreme entitlement/selfishness shown which is leading to criticism that is far more deserving.

    You can think whatever you want about each issue but the way it is being handled is clearly ridiculous/selfish/entitled from one group going against state orders/medicine to keep people safe while the other person kneeled and got into peoples feels. One is bad (going against orders/medicine and risking health of others) and probably should be vilified, the other is a difference of opinion on a political topic that someone handled without breaking orders or putting others at risk during a pandemic.

    Again protesting in general is not bad. If they had followed the measures in place and so on it would not have been as ridiculed but they were standing next to each other, with no masks, some armed etc. and so on. You can't justify what they are doing by using the pandemic then ignore that they are breaking orders during a pandemic putting others at risk and so on at the same time. That is a very key difference that makes their HOW significantly worse than simply kneeling peacefully.
    Im not protesting..... Ive sheltered in place.The worst thing I have done is gotten 2 haircuts from my coworkers wife. But it was an indoor gathering of less than 10 people..... so i dont know if its against a direct order.

    I also havent lost my job or any income. Me arguing for 33 million people losing their jobs and many businesses being forced out of operation is not selfish. We are both arguing for the benefit of a lot of people- I happen to be arguing for the benefit of about 50 times as many people as you though.

    when you say its just being selfish- its just a way of ignoring the problems on the other side of the balance sheet. If it was just me losing my job- then maybe youd have a point. LOL next thing your going to be saying Ghandi was selfish

  12. #1857
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    [QUOTE=likemystylez;33477798]
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post

    Im not protesting..... Ive sheltered in place.The worst thing I have done is gotten 2 haircuts from my coworkers wife. But it was an indoor gathering of less than 10 people..... so i dont know if its against a direct order.

    I also havent lost my job or any income. Me arguing for 33 million people losing their jobs and many businesses being forced out of operation is not selfish. We are both arguing for the benefit of a lot of people- I happen to be arguing for the benefit of about 50 times as many people as you though.

    when you say its just being selfish- its just a way of ignoring the problems on the other side of the balance sheet. If it was just me losing my job- then maybe youd have a point. LOL next thing your going to be saying Ghandi was selfish
    You are using them to justify it lol. I am actually one of the unemployed due to this and we have a process within that bill. Again anyone can have their own political cause and justify it but they can't go around breaking orders and risking others safety. I would say you are just defending dangerous things then and commend you on actually understanding it's too far/not acting in the way some have despite what's been argued.

    You are not though because as I showed most people currently are more worried about opening early so you are arguing against most and I've shown that with an actual poll. Again you are trying to justify your stance by using the idea everyone is with you when it's not a reality.

    No I am calling you selfish because the arguments you make and things you bring up show selfishness/entitlement. Prom for example is a selfish reason.


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  13. #1858
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    21,207
    [QUOTE=mngopher35;33477793]
    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post

    Yes it is more serious due to the pandemic which makes doing it in this manner even more dangerous/worse is part of the point. These people are vaguely protesting a lock down, that is the point and he did call out some specific issues over time you should look into all the times he has talked on the issue maybe. However I bet plenty of people feel differently about which is more important/hurting their community in general. That is my point, you feel this is important so you excuse behavior that you would never accept elsewhere. People are mocking that behavior and you are getting mad but not understanding you wouldn't allow this approach UNLESS it fit your political viewpoint and you personally see it as a big enough political issue to warrant behavior.

    So again you agreeing personally with this political stance is why you are defending this. It is alright that you have certain beliefs and it is also alright people mock and call out those being very selfish/entitled. If CK were to start putting others lives at risk going against state orders/medicine and so on I would change my mind about his approach too because I don't care either way about the politics. I am pointing out the way each handled it and the extreme entitlement/selfishness shown which is leading to criticism that is far more deserving.

    You can think whatever you want about each issue but the way it is being handled is clearly ridiculous/selfish/entitled from one group going against state orders/medicine to keep people safe while the other person kneeled and got into peoples feels. One is bad (going against orders/medicine and risking health of others) and probably should be vilified, the other is a difference of opinion on a political topic that someone handled without breaking orders or putting others at risk during a pandemic.

    Again protesting in general is not bad. If they had followed the measures in place and so on it would not have been as ridiculed but they were standing next to each other, with no masks, some armed etc. and so on. You can't justify what they are doing by using the pandemic then ignore that they are breaking orders during a pandemic putting others at risk and so on at the same time. That is a very key difference that makes their HOW significantly worse than simply kneeling peacefully.
    personal question..... In your mind would there ever be a point where it would be acceptable to protest this? I mean if we are in this same situation 6 months from now, 9 months from now 5 years from now? Would there ever be a point where the current plan needs to be rethought?Where this "Shelter in place" is not getting us up and running fast enough? Or would you be prepared to live the rest of your life like this if thats what the state orders were?

  14. #1859
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
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    11,803
    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post
    The shut down issue is the entire government destroying the lives of Millions and millions of people. This is systematic oppression.... not a few one off debatable situations here and there.
    Herein lies a HUGE hole in your argument. You're viewing policies and temporary ordinances specifically intended to protect the public as the government destroying lives, oppressing people, and taking away freedoms........EXCESSIVELY short-sighted. You'd get no disagreement from me on whether some things could have been handled better, but we're also viewing the situation with the benefit of hindsight; if they knew then what they know now, they likely handle things differently as well...they didn't know those things, it's been a gradually peeling onion for months now.

    And btw, one thing the media never seems to mention is that a noticeable number of those 33 million newly unemployed...are self-employed and gig employees who will be re-employed as things open up, not the typical unemployed needing to find a new job. Self-employed were never allowed to FILE for unemployment before now, but that's how they're keeping them afloat right now.

    There's also a new group of people there's generally NEVER been before, as things start opening up- people NOT willing to go back to work until their benefits run out...because the government stupidly allowed a system where many are making more to NOT work...than they were earning at the job they lost.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  15. #1860
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    11,803
    Quote Originally Posted by likemystylez View Post

    personal question..... In your mind would there ever be a point where it would be acceptable to protest this? I mean if we are in this same situation 6 months from now, 9 months from now 5 years from now? Would there ever be a point where the current plan needs to be rethought?Where this "Shelter in place" is not getting us up and running fast enough? Or would you be prepared to live the rest of your life like this if thats what the state orders were?
    won't happen...can't happen...in order for there to continue to be money available to keep people going, there has to at some point soon be money coming IN...from businesses, from people working, from people spending money, etc.....so even AS we open up, some things have to change.

    Businesses are learning ways they can adjust their norms to create less contact between their customers and between their employees. They're finding ways for more and more of their people to work from home and still be productive. PEOPLE are learning HOW to work from home and be productive. That's not to say shelter in place needs to continue ongoing, just that adjustments can and will be made going forward and our new normal will look different than our old one.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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