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  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    (overpaid?) middle-6 wings are disposable; top pair defensemen are not. i don't think it makes sense to dismiss the idea before investigating. and on that note

    option C:
    -> dustin byfuglien
    is keith even a top defensemen anymore? at 36 with 4 years left at that contract? I am definitely ok. And buff is done. gotta go another route. They both dont make us better. If buff wasn't done then I would be on board

  2. #497
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    Yea, I'd retire too if I was forced to spent the majority of my time in Winnipeg.


    Byfuglien is the most intriguing name mentioned so far for me. Shouldn't cost much, considering he retired and didn't play. 7.6 cap hit with 6 million cash if he plays the LAST year on the contract.

    It's not necessarily a need, but having a top 6 of Provy, Sanheim, Myers, niskanen, ghost and Byfuglien is definitely intriguing.


    Assuming he's interested in playing, for not the jets. What would a reasonable deal look like for a retired top 4 dman?
    "2008 WORLD ****ING CHAMPIONS"

  3. #498
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    I feel as though we have so many prospects on D at this point that we don't upgrade anymore. We keep Niky and roll with our young guys but have Ghost as our trade chip...

    Niskanen, Provy, Sanheim, and Myers are our top 4 for the foreseeable future and should be. Niskanen will need replacing soon, but we have York we should groom for that (not necessarily as a top option, but more as a replacement into the top 4). I could see something like Provy and Myers being our top 2 with our second pairing being Sanheim and York. Our third pairing could be guys like Zamula, Friedman, Haag, Morin, Wylie, Kalynuk, or some FA signing. With the previously mentioned top 4, I think they should be fine in a 3rd pairing role.

    I want us to use guys like Ghost and maybe one of our prospects to land a proven star/elite Forward given the cap works out.

  4. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    I feel as though we have so many prospects on D at this point that we don't upgrade anymore. We keep Niky and roll with our young guys but have Ghost as our trade chip...

    Niskanen, Provy, Sanheim, and Myers are our top 4 for the foreseeable future and should be. Niskanen will need replacing soon, but we have York we should groom for that (not necessarily as a top option, but more as a replacement into the top 4). I could see something like Provy and Myers being our top 2 with our second pairing being Sanheim and York. Our third pairing could be guys like Zamula, Friedman, Haag, Morin, Wylie, Kalynuk, or some FA signing. With the previously mentioned top 4, I think they should be fine in a 3rd pairing role.

    I want us to use guys like Ghost and maybe one of our prospects to land a proven star/elite Forward given the cap works out.
    this is exactly what I want. Ride ghost out next year. If we are in the playoff mix again and ghost is playing good, don't trade him. See what we can do in the playoffs. Trade him after the season is done when his stock is high and before the expansion draft.

    We need patrick, farabee, frost to take some steps forward. If they can provide, more than this season which is not much in frost/patricks case and even farabee to an extent, and improve to giving us 30-60 points than its a win. Really, patrick and frost are going to be key. I can see farabee getting to 40 points. Patrick and frost are certainly capable of getting there. Patrick SHOULD be there by now.

    Also there's ghost for next year. I can't imagine him having this bad of a season, offensively that is, again. These things should dramatically improve our offense.

    G-couts-tk
    farbaee-hayes-voracek
    jvr-patrick-frost
    pitlick-laughton-nak
    raffl

    I would not be opposed to trading frost and ghost for a top player. Frost is nice but still a ? at this point. I like farabee's skill and versatility. If we can get a better top 6 forward than frost will ever be then go for it. If not, I am ok with this lineup (if patrick, farabee, ghost do better)

  5. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    this is exactly what I want. Ride ghost out next year. If we are in the playoff mix again and ghost is playing good, don't trade him. See what we can do in the playoffs. Trade him after the season is done when his stock is high and before the expansion draft.

    We need patrick, farabee, frost to take some steps forward. If they can provide, more than this season which is not much in frost/patricks case and even farabee to an extent, and improve to giving us 30-60 points than its a win. Really, patrick and frost are going to be key. I can see farabee getting to 40 points. Patrick and frost are certainly capable of getting there. Patrick SHOULD be there by now.

    Also there's ghost for next year. I can't imagine him having this bad of a season, offensively that is, again. These things should dramatically improve our offense.

    G-couts-tk
    farbaee-hayes-voracek
    jvr-patrick-frost
    pitlick-laughton-nak
    raffl

    I would not be opposed to trading frost and ghost for a top player. Frost is nice but still a ? at this point. I like farabee's skill and versatility. If we can get a better top 6 forward than frost will ever be then go for it. If not, I am ok with this lineup (if patrick, farabee, ghost do better)
    Morgan Frost still has growing to do. He is a 6'0" string bean still. He is only 20 years old. Let's not Patrick Sharp this one lol. I want to keep the kid. I remember when people wanted to trade Giroux before he changed his number to 28 lol It's crazy...then we wonder why we don't win cups. Look, I'm not saying that we will win the cup with Frost, but I am saying I believe our chance is the same and the window would be greater. Frost can be a homegrown top player. That's just my point of view. I have a good feeling about him. He reminds me of Danny Briere but taller and can be stronger.

  6. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Morgan Frost still has growing to do. He is a 6'0" string bean still. He is only 20 years old. Let's not Patrick Sharp this one lol. I want to keep the kid. I remember when people wanted to trade Giroux before he changed his number to 28 lol It's crazy...then we wonder why we don't win cups. Look, I'm not saying that we will win the cup with Frost, but I am saying I believe our chance is the same and the window would be greater. Frost can be a homegrown top player. That's just my point of view. I have a good feeling about him. He reminds me of Danny Briere but taller and can be stronger.
    obviously lets not trade him for trades similar to jvr/sharp, etc. But if we can trade frost, ghost and something (1st round picks or whateer) for meier, connor type players im jumping all over it. Those guys are young, decent contacts, and what we need. itll never happen but those types of players im willing to trade frost for 100%, no hesitation

  7. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    obviously lets not trade him for trades similar to jvr/sharp, etc. But if we can trade frost, ghost and something (1st round picks or whateer) for meier, connor type players im jumping all over it. Those guys are young, decent contacts, and what we need. itll never happen but those types of players im willing to trade frost for 100%, no hesitation
    Yeah, my gut says that in a year or two, we will be happy to have Frost....I mean his name is Frost...it doesn't get more hockey than that! XD

  8. #503
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    Holy moly talkiking about trading for Keith and Getzlaf? Keith is barely functionable anymore as a defender. Getzlaf can barely skate. Toews actually probably has 2-3 good years left in him, but to hell with that contract.

  9. #504
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    And I see isolation is starting to mess with some of you guys mentally so here we go:

    - The simplest solution is to trade Ghost for a young/prime aged forward. You can't protect him with Provorov, Sanheim, and Myers being your top 3 for the foreseeable future, so as much as it pains me Ghost has to go. Ideally for a forward under 27 that can play in the top 6, but I'd be willing to accept he futures package that includes a 1st+at least a B+ caliber prospect.

    - You can't count on Lindblom to be back. Praying won't make it so and I don't want to get my hopes up. I'll treat it like a free top 6 fwd if he does come back.

    - Farabee, York, Brink, Zamula, should all be off limits in trade talks. Noticably I left Frost off that list bc:
    1. He has a much lower floor than Farabee and arguably lower ceiling
    2. I'm not really sure where he fits in the long term plans. Which leads me to:

    - You currently have Couturier, Hayes, Laughton down the middle. That's pretty good. Ideally you'd like to find a higher end #2 center to slot between Couturier and Hayes and suddenly you have an elite group of centers 1-4 causing matchup problems for opponents across the board.
    1. Do you believe Patrick or Frost can be that guy? If the answer is no, then you have to make the choice of possibly moving one or both in a package to get that type of guy.
    2. Do you believe either fit as a top 6 winger? Again, if no then they need to be moved while they have value. I'm of the assumption that both guys are likely to top out as high end bottom 6-middle 6 fwds. As deep as the Flyers system is they will continue to have a high end bottom 6, so it makes sense to move him while their value is still high with viable replacements in the pipeline.

    - Voracek I'm only really willing to move for the right deal. It's unlikely you get the right deal, so best course of action is to keep him and chain him to Couturier. Giroux-Couturier-Voracek when together have been one of the best lines in the NHL. No reason to not ride that if you can slot the rest of your lineup. Which leads me to:

    Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
    Farabee-Trade-Konecny
    JVR-Hayes-(?)
    (?)-Laughton-NAK

    -Grant and Pitlick should be considered to be brought back if their price tag is appropriate.
    -Lindblom obviously makes this easy if he were to come back and you could flip flop he and Farabee.
    -Patrick, Frost, Rubstov, Vorobyev, Ratcliffe, Bunnaman should all both be considered to either fill out the bottom of the roster or be used in a trade if the option arises for them to acquire a high end #2 center.

    Provorov-Niskanen
    Sanheim-Myers
    Hagg-Friedman
    ?

    -I'd consider bringing back Braun if he's paid like a #7 defender. I'd be OK with rotating and playing the hot hand 2 out of 3 between Hagg, Friedman, and Braun.
    -Also a spot where they maybe should consider acquiring an upgrade at #5 defender whether via trade(on the cheap) or free agency.
    -Ghost as a trade chip again to acquire that #2 center. He would likely need to be the main piece of any deal in order to both make the cap work and get the caliber of player they need.
    -York and Zamula likely not options for next year, but certainly should be considered options to possibly make a push for a roster spot in 2021-2022 season.

    Hart
    (?)

    -I'd be fine with bringing Elliott back and several other potential veteran targets. Should be some decent options for the Flyers to choose from to backup Hart.

    This team really isn't that far away. A legitimate high end #2 center really does a lot for this team. The rest of the pieces are there aside from some minor tweaks here and there.

  10. #505
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    i would rather trade frost than patrick. I see patrick as someone who can become a better wing if he is moved there. Frost might have more offense but patrick has the higher ceiling. Frost + ghost should net you solid return if thats the move.

    However, when you look at it....there's not many top 6 centers available. Trocheck is gone now which was a wasted attempt.

    In the atlantic..no one from boston, none from buffalo, detroit isn't trading larkin, tyjo but hes more of a winger and contract doesnt help, idk if i want domi and they aren't trading suzuki/kotkoniemi, sens have no one and they aren't trading norris, tampa has

    pacific: getzlaf is old but would be a decent option as a rental but too expensive/he won't leave anaheim. yotes=stepan is ew and dvorak isnt going anywhere, flames have no one, kings aren't trading kopi, sharks only have couture, canucks aren't trading horvat, knights aren't trading WK

    metro: we aren't getting anyone from here.

    central: chicago isn't trading toews, avs/dallas/wild/preds have no one. blues aren't trading ROR/schenn, jets only have schiefle

    I mean there are no options available really except overpay or get old/awful guys.

  11. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    And I see isolation is starting to mess with some of you guys mentally so here we go:

    - The simplest solution is to trade Ghost for a young/prime aged forward. You can't protect him with Provorov, Sanheim, and Myers being your top 3 for the foreseeable future, so as much as it pains me Ghost has to go. Ideally for a forward under 27 that can play in the top 6, but I'd be willing to accept he futures package that includes a 1st+at least a B+ caliber prospect.

    - You can't count on Lindblom to be back. Praying won't make it so and I don't want to get my hopes up. I'll treat it like a free top 6 fwd if he does come back.

    - Farabee, York, Brink, Zamula, should all be off limits in trade talks. Noticably I left Frost off that list bc:
    1. He has a much lower floor than Farabee and arguably lower ceiling
    2. I'm not really sure where he fits in the long term plans. Which leads me to:

    - You currently have Couturier, Hayes, Laughton down the middle. That's pretty good. Ideally you'd like to find a higher end #2 center to slot between Couturier and Hayes and suddenly you have an elite group of centers 1-4 causing matchup problems for opponents across the board.
    1. Do you believe Patrick or Frost can be that guy? If the answer is no, then you have to make the choice of possibly moving one or both in a package to get that type of guy.
    2. Do you believe either fit as a top 6 winger? Again, if no then they need to be moved while they have value. I'm of the assumption that both guys are likely to top out as high end bottom 6-middle 6 fwds. As deep as the Flyers system is they will continue to have a high end bottom 6, so it makes sense to move him while their value is still high with viable replacements in the pipeline.

    - Voracek I'm only really willing to move for the right deal. It's unlikely you get the right deal, so best course of action is to keep him and chain him to Couturier. Giroux-Couturier-Voracek when together have been one of the best lines in the NHL. No reason to not ride that if you can slot the rest of your lineup. Which leads me to:

    Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
    Farabee-Trade-Konecny
    JVR-Hayes-(?)
    (?)-Laughton-NAK

    -Grant and Pitlick should be considered to be brought back if their price tag is appropriate.
    -Lindblom obviously makes this easy if he were to come back and you could flip flop he and Farabee.
    -Patrick, Frost, Rubstov, Vorobyev, Ratcliffe, Bunnaman should all both be considered to either fill out the bottom of the roster or be used in a trade if the option arises for them to acquire a high end #2 center.

    Provorov-Niskanen
    Sanheim-Myers
    Hagg-Friedman
    ?

    -I'd consider bringing back Braun if he's paid like a #7 defender. I'd be OK with rotating and playing the hot hand 2 out of 3 between Hagg, Friedman, and Braun.
    -Also a spot where they maybe should consider acquiring an upgrade at #5 defender whether via trade(on the cheap) or free agency.
    -Ghost as a trade chip again to acquire that #2 center. He would likely need to be the main piece of any deal in order to both make the cap work and get the caliber of player they need.
    -York and Zamula likely not options for next year, but certainly should be considered options to possibly make a push for a roster spot in 2021-2022 season.

    Hart
    (?)

    -I'd be fine with bringing Elliott back and several other potential veteran targets. Should be some decent options for the Flyers to choose from to backup Hart.

    This team really isn't that far away. A legitimate high end #2 center really does a lot for this team. The rest of the pieces are there aside from some minor tweaks here and there.
    - I understand people think ghost has some sort of immense trade value. He was worth a top 6 forward and more 2 years ago, when he was posting 60 pts. He's unlikely to recoup anything like that now. He quite possible has more value in what would be a 1 off season to help the flyers make a cup run than to be move in the off-season. Imo

    - we've had the discussion before about Frost. I'm still in the camp thay he's a future low end 1C with high end skill, or an elite 2C. I love the skillset and the IQ. I think he's a capable winger as well. He could miss though. And miss hard. So if the right deal pops up, I could be convinced (bona-fide U25 top 6er)

    -1. Yes. Frost. He's that guy. No. Not to start next season, going in its his 3rd c spot to lose imo.
    2. Patrick has a wide range of skills and appears more versatile to me. I doubt he has any value right now, so if the choices are to sell low, or hope he can play wing, im moving him to wing and seeing how it works. Decent plan b if Frost fails in the 3c next season.

    For the most part we agree on the rest. Obviously moving pieces based on my frost beliefs but generally we agree.

    As far as backup G goes, I'd be interested in looking into Mike Smith. I havent seen numbers or anything, but he's an elite puck handler who I think Hart could learn a lot from. Should be cheap, and if his play has held up a decent guy to give 25-30 games to.

    My simple lineup going into next year, assuming a Perfecr trade doesn't pop is something like

    28-14-93
    49-13-11
    25-48-19
    Xxx-21-NAK

    9-15
    6-5
    53-8/freidman

    Hart
    Smith/elliot/talbot/khudoben/decent vet backup



    PS I fully expect the cap to drop. The lack of revenue for 10+games for 31 teams isn't going to be ignored.
    "2008 WORLD ****ING CHAMPIONS"

  12. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    - I understand people think ghost has some sort of immense trade value. He was worth a top 6 forward and more 2 years ago, when he was posting 60 pts. He's unlikely to recoup anything like that now. He quite possible has more value in what would be a 1 off season to help the flyers make a cup run than to be move in the off-season. Imo

    - we've had the discussion before about Frost. I'm still in the camp thay he's a future low end 1C with high end skill, or an elite 2C. I love the skillset and the IQ. I think he's a capable winger as well. He could miss though. And miss hard. So if the right deal pops up, I could be convinced (bona-fide U25 top 6er)

    -1. Yes. Frost. He's that guy. No. Not to start next season, going in its his 3rd c spot to lose imo.
    2. Patrick has a wide range of skills and appears more versatile to me. I doubt he has any value right now, so if the choices are to sell low, or hope he can play wing, im moving him to wing and seeing how it works. Decent plan b if Frost fails in the 3c next season.

    For the most part we agree on the rest. Obviously moving pieces based on my frost beliefs but generally we agree.

    As far as backup G goes, I'd be interested in looking into Mike Smith. I havent seen numbers or anything, but he's an elite puck handler who I think Hart could learn a lot from. Should be cheap, and if his play has held up a decent guy to give 25-30 games to.

    My simple lineup going into next year, assuming a Perfecr trade doesn't pop is something like

    28-14-93
    49-13-11
    25-48-19
    Xxx-21-NAK

    9-15
    6-5
    53-8/freidman

    Hart
    Smith/elliot/talbot/khudoben/decent vet backup



    PS I fully expect the cap to drop. The lack of revenue for 10+games for 31 teams isn't going to be ignored.
    I'm willing to bet that Ghost can still get you a top 6 forward even with his recent struggles. Teams tend to be more forgiving on defenders than with forwards and overlook their flaws considering how few teams actually have a legitimate top 4 1-4. A team like Winnipeg immediately comes to mind. Even with Dylan Samberg signing and Heinola possibly being penciled in for 2 spots that still leaves them with:

    Morrissey-Pionk
    Heinola-Niku
    Samberg-Poolman

    Even with adding 2 rookies, they don't currently have another defender under contract next season with NHL experience. So in essence they have 4 current defenders with more than 10 games in the NHL and to further drive the point home, they only have about 10 mil in cap with only 13 players committed and that's based on the cap going up to 84 mil. Now is Ghost enough to net you Connor, Laine, or Ehlers on his own? Doubtful, but I'm certain they could sweeten the pot a bit to make a deal happen. And really that's just 1 example and the most obvious match to make a deal.

    As for Mike Smith, he's been the normal roller coaster ride you would expect. I watch more Oilers games than I would like to because Hart-Smith is my goalie tandem in one of my dynasty leagues. Given the choice, I would probably rather have Elliott at this point in their careers especially with Mike Smith at age 38. The ultimate prize would be Robin Lehner, but he's probably out of the Flyers price range. Crawford and Markstrom I imagine will both get deals done with their respective teams, but Markstrom especially...he was playing vezina caliber hockey this year. He really covers up a lot of defensive issues for Vancouver.

  13. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    I'm willing to bet that Ghost can still get you a top 6 forward even with his recent struggles. Teams tend to be more forgiving on defenders than with forwards and overlook their flaws considering how few teams actually have a legitimate top 4 1-4. A team like Winnipeg immediately comes to mind. Even with Dylan Samberg signing and Heinola possibly being penciled in for 2 spots that still leaves them with:

    Morrissey-Pionk
    Heinola-Niku
    Samberg-Poolman

    Even with adding 2 rookies, they don't currently have another defender under contract next season with NHL experience. So in essence they have 4 current defenders with more than 10 games in the NHL and to further drive the point home, they only have about 10 mil in cap with only 13 players committed and that's based on the cap going up to 84 mil. Now is Ghost enough to net you Connor, Laine, or Ehlers on his own? Doubtful, but I'm certain they could sweeten the pot a bit to make a deal happen. And really that's just 1 example and the most obvious match to make a deal.

    As for Mike Smith, he's been the normal roller coaster ride you would expect. I watch more Oilers games than I would like to because Hart-Smith is my goalie tandem in one of my dynasty leagues. Given the choice, I would probably rather have Elliott at this point in their careers especially with Mike Smith at age 38. The ultimate prize would be Robin Lehner, but he's probably out of the Flyers price range. Crawford and Markstrom I imagine will both get deals done with their respective teams, but Markstrom especially...he was playing vezina caliber hockey this year. He really covers up a lot of defensive issues for Vancouver.
    As far as ghost goes, I'm sure there's a package he can be apart of that lands someone interesting. My issue is the additional pieces to make it work are likely no longer "throw aways". I'm all for moving him for the right deal, hell I'm all for moving anyone for the right deal. Just not sure if that deal will present itself. Wonder if the jets would be willing to add big buff to a deal as a throw in... That would be something. Assuming he'd play for the flyers I'd love a one year rental with him.
    "2008 WORLD ****ING CHAMPIONS"

  14. #509
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    I'd like to think Buff is done with hockey and at least certainly done with the Jets. That could certainly be something if he were willing to give it one last go for a cup and still 80% of the player he was pre injury. Not sure how the cap would work, but it would certainly be interesting and be a nice rental to bridge to Zamula and York.

  15. #510
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    i think ghost and another piece for ehlers was always a deal that could've been done. Jets do seem to have similar defenders so that hurts any potential trade.

    as for goalies, I want khudobin.

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