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  1. #181
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    Feb 2009
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    3,124
    some more fun:
    I don't have an issue with Hayes, other than it was an overpay on both AAV & term by about a year and $750k (so about $10M total).

    But Niskanen? Forget the back 9 of his career, he's putting on the 18th green. Ditto for Braun. Those two are nothing special -- and you already had a better version of Braun in Gudas, who you traded for Niskanen?
    Lmao. This is the worst off-season I could have imagined. This is my nightmare.
    I have a sinking feeling Patty and Ghost wonít be here much longer ... hope Iím wrong.
    I'm starting to question my fandom. The Flyers have turned me completely apathetic to hockey, and it's only getting worse.
    I havenít paid much attention to the Flyers let alone the NHL as closely the last few seasons. Reading your posts keep me in tuned.

    That said, these moves by your reactions make me feel like getting back into more than just boxscore checking is not in my foreseeable future. Itís unfortunate.
    as for fletcher on the whole, for all the whining you people are doing about fletcher, he still hasn't gotten rid of a core piece. he didn't trade a 1st round pick for steve eminger; he didn't trade hagg and a 1st round pick to get negotiating rights for kevin hayes.


    everything he's traded away has been marginal. yeah, sure, the talbot trade didn't work out; the braun trade appears to have been a bit too rich; he missed out on trouba.

    and yet, look at the depth that he's building:
    ghost/braun/hagg are our 5th/6th/7th defensemen.
    laughton/hartman/raffl are our 10th/11th/12th forwards.


    there's no more macdonald.
    no more lehtera.
    no more weise.
    no more hakstol.

    fletcher has dumped all of your whipping boys, so what are you doing?

    you're going after him?

    **** off. ****ing insects.
    Welcome back Steagles
    I'm sick to my stomach and we haven't made it to the draft yet.
    It's only gonna get worse from here. Best to tune everything Flyers related out of your mind before you start thinking murderous thoughts like me. This is just unreal and I can't believe it has come to this. A trade like this is a fireable offense.
    tanev got 6/21 from PIT -- wow. that takes some balls.
    Last edited by steagles; 03-04-2020 at 10:43 PM.

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    8,255
    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    some more fun:
    Refocus ... back to new hockey posts.

  3. #183
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    Jul 2008
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    Every time I talk so much crap on Laughton, he gets a super lucky goal and I think Iím going to use that in the playoffs.

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    4,082
    F'n right. Boys may never lose again, lol. Funny thing when you have goaltending and don't have scrubs like MacDonald, Weise, Lehtera, etc.

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    California
    Posts
    9,526
    omfg i love this. I ahvent enjoyed this much flyers hockey since the pens-flyers series

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,124
    this one did not age well:
    fillpula scored as many points as nolan patrick this season.
    updated for 2020:
    patrick: 0 GP; 0 G; 0 PTS
    fillpula: 67 GP; 6 G; 21 PTS; -42...wait that can't be right....-42....my god.


    this one, otoh...still up in the air, tbh:
    Holmgren stepping aside to go into an advisory role. Fletcher being given the president label as well.


    Just wanna point out, steagles essentially predicted this months ago.

  7. #187
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    Jul 2008
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    8,255
    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    this one did not age well:

    updated for 2020:
    patrick: 0 GP; 0 G; 0 PTS
    fillpula: 67 GP; 6 G; 21 PTS; -42...wait that can't be right....-42....my god.


    this one, otoh...still up in the air, tbh:
    Out of your system yet?

  8. #188
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    Jan 2010
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    California
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    9,526
    what a game. Love this

  9. #189
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    Dec 2008
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    Philadelphia
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    111,806
    grant was a fantastic trade for us so far... the dude is doing everything

    Also Prov is a monster and hayes is on another level.

  10. #190
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    some more fun:

  11. #191
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    Feb 2009
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    Refocus ... back to new hockey posts.
    when i do this kind of thing, it's usually because i'm looking for something specific and haven't found it yet. i still haven't found it, so...enjoy:
    Iíd still do Provorov and Patrick + Hagg and a 1st for Marner
    not sure if anyone posted this quote from chuck fletcher, but either way:
    ďYou can wish for things and want to win a Stanley Cup right away. Thereís a process for everything,Ē Fletcher said last week. ďI donít think Iíve had to pump the brakes on anything. I just think the expectation is weíve got to find a way to get better and, as Iíve mentioned a few times, we give up way too many goals to win hockey games. Itís that simple. Until we learn to play the right way and have better details and have better habits ó we tweaked the personnel to cut down the goals against ó until we do that, weíre not gonna win games. Weíre not gonna win consistently and we have no chance. Thatís the focus and continuing to draft and develop and continuing to augment the roster with trades or free agency as needed.Ē
    (emphasis mine)
    Kids are going to have to push vets out. That's just the way it is. They didn't bring in this coaching staff to babysit a young developing team. For better or worse they're all in on a cup run.

  12. #192
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    Jul 2008
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    8,255
    Hate to bust your balls here Steagles, that trade is still pretty fair ... provorov and Patty for Marner, who is a legit star player ... Hagg is marginal loss ... 90 point forwards is something this team doesnít remotely have, and Patty hasnít played a game all year ... Value is almost exactly on

    I understand people donít want to move provorov ... I donít either unless itís for elite talent. I was the one before anyone saying we should draft him at 7 in his draft year, and he was the best dman in his class ... itís not like Iím anti-provorov ... but if we are going to get Marner, Itís going to take our best defender to acquire him.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    Hate to bust your balls here Steagles, that trade is still pretty fair ... provorov and Patty for Marner, who is a legit star player ... Hagg is marginal loss ... 90 point forwards is something this team doesnít remotely have, and Patty hasnít played a game all year ... Value is almost exactly on

    I understand people donít want to move provorov ... I donít either unless itís for elite talent. I was the one before anyone saying we should draft him at 7 in his draft year, and he was the best dman in his class ... itís not like Iím anti-provorov ... but if we are going to get Marner, Itís going to take our best defender to acquire him.
    yea i wouldnt trade prov for marner straight up sorry... you arent realizing just how much we rely on prov... there are 2 guys the flyers cant afford to lose or we are done and that is prov and couts... stop with this elite talent crap already.

  14. #194
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    Jul 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    yea i wouldnt trade prov for marner straight up sorry... you arent realizing just how much we rely on prov... there are 2 guys the flyers cant afford to lose or we are done and that is prov and couts... stop with this elite talent crap already.
    It is trading elite defensive talent, because we have Zamula and York + Sanheim, Myers, Ghost, and Hagg ... for elite offensive talent ... where we have Frost, who maybe will pan out to be semi-elite ... we have zero prospects or younger players that are 35/65 guys, or could hope to be ... that is what Marner is ...

    We could figure it out on defense, we need to supplement on offense.

    So Iím fully aware of what provorov means for us, and also what he could buy for us ... he is our biggest asset.

  15. #195
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    Feb 2009
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    wait for it....
    it's easy to make moves when you're willing to overpay. fletcher overpaid for hayes (in years and cap hit); he overpaid for niskanen (in cap hit); he overpaid for braun (in mid-round draft picks).

    what i find interesting are the assets that fletcher was willing to overpay for:
    - a middle-6 center
    - two veteran RH defensemen with 200+ combined playoff games

    ...and the currencies that fletcher was (and was not) willing to use to overpay:
    - cash: yes. clearly.
    - term: in some cases.
    - top prospects: nope.
    - non-top prospects: not yet.
    - young players: not yet.
    - 1st round draft picks: maybe, but the right deal never came together.
    - mid-round draft picks: like candy.
    if i'm fletcher, i don't pay anyone until this team wins a ****ing playoff series. the checkbook stays closed until i'm sure this thing has turned around for good. RFAs get bridge deals; UFAs get traded; noone gets paid long-term until this ****ing team is winning.
    if provorov can find someone to give him an 8.4MM offer sheet, i'd feel like **** about this, but i probably take the draft picks and use the cap room to sign jake gardiner as a stop gap replacement.
    10% of the current cap is 8.2MM
    9%: 7.3MM
    8%: 6.5MM
    7%: 5.7MM

    if you want to argue that provorov is better than jones, ristolainen and slavin, that's fine, but "better" is 6.5MM AAV. and even if you want to argue that the economics have changed (they haven't, btw; this kind of stuff is cyclical), that's still just 7.3MM.

    for provorov to get near 8MM AAV would require something exceptional: either an offer sheet, or the very credible threat of an offer sheet.
    most of this board doesn't see a difference between jori lehtera/dale weise/andrew macdonald/radko gudas/christian folin/michael neuvirth and kevin hayes/morgan frost/matt niskanen/phil myers/justin braun/carter hart, which is to say that it probably doesn't have anything to do with "attention"....


    brains just no work good after spend years slurming hextall dick.
    this season is going to be a case study of the impact from upgrading "terrible" to "average". fletcher got rid of "terrible" and he replaced it with "average"*. sure, hayes is an "average" 2nd line center; niskanen is an "average" 2nd pair defenseman; braun is an "average" 3rd pair defenseman; those are still substantial upgrades from what we've had.

    *i think "average" is pessimistic, but i prefer to be pessimistic while setting a floor for expectations this season.

    i get that this isn't sexy, but the improvement this offseason is real and significant.
    ...
    our depth of talent is going to make this an incredibly fun season.
    pulling a st louis seems optimistic given that our division accounts for 3 of the last 4 stanley cup winners, but moving that to the side for a moment, where do you see the weakness in our roster:


    is our 1st line (giroux - couturier - konecny) below an average 1st line?
    is our 2nd line (JVR - hayes - voracek) below an average 2nd line?
    is our 3rd line (laughton - patrick - frost) below an average 3rd line?
    is our 4th line (lindblom - pitlick - raffl) below an average 4th line?

    is our top D pair (provorov - niskanen) below an average top D pair?
    is our 2nd D pair (sanheim - myers) below an average 2nd D pair?
    is our 3rd D pair (ghost - braun/hagg) below an average 3rd D pair?

    is our #1 goalie (hart) below an average #1 goalie?
    is our backup goalie (elliott) below an average backup?

    is our #1 PP (JVR - hayes - giroux - ghost - voracek) below average?
    is our #2 PP (couturier - patrick - konecny - sanheim - frost) below average?

    is our #1 PK (couturier - raffl - provorov - braun) below average?
    is our #2 PK (laughton - pitlick - niskanen - myers) below average?



    i'm pretty sure some of those units will turn out to be below average when the games count, but right now, on paper, even the least of them seem to have a coinflip chance of being average or better, relative to their role.
    there's almost literally nothing that will "make this team infinitely better". hextall was able to sell that ******** to this fanbase while he did nothing for 5 years, and it got him fired. it's a defeatist mentality; it is toxic; and it needs to be dissolved in acid until it is gone forever.

    FOUND IT (...but it's not as good as i hoped it would be): [fun fact: that's also the name of my sex tape]
    i'm not sure if anyone has gone back to watch video of kevin hayes since we signed him, but two things that stuck out to me are how much of his production comes off of the rush, and how often he beats goalies clean with his wrist shot from 8-15 feet without a screen.

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