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  1. #16
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    I am willing to give Knox another year before I write him off as a complete bust but I also am not holding back trading him in any package that gets a legit starter here.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    I am willing to give Knox another year before I write him off as a complete bust but I also am not holding back trading him in any package that gets a legit starter here.
    getting a legit starter and trading Knox, really don't seem do go together at this point, I'm guessing your adding in picks?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    getting a legit starter and trading Knox, really don't seem do go together at this point, I'm guessing your adding in picks?
    Yes - hence the term "package".

  4. #19
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    This is really for the Athletic and fans who actually feel we don't develop our own?

    And I'm not backing or protecting our FO, but reality has to set in and stop putting blame where it don't belong we have so many other places to point that towards, trades, draft , multi coaching staffs and FO's......in no order either those are horrible combinations:

    But let's put this development to rest ok?

    I went back to 2004-2005......remember we traded many first round picks till 2017.

    How did all these players we didn't develop fair after we parted ways?

    Collins, Balkman, Nate, Hill, T. Douglas, Fields, S Williams, A Randoph, Rautins, Early, Larkin just to name the obvious young talents we had .........don't bother looking it up, they all didn't make it much longer or just were gone.

    Now the ones some think they have an argument:

    David Lee- we let him go in his prime because of what he got paid and sad part is we could have locked him up but one could argue Knicks did the development his stats from age 26 his last year with us actually went down afterwards when GS got him in his full prime, his assists went up but GS roster may have a some to do with that.

    Frye- we drafted him at 22, three point shooting wasn't as huge then, he scored 12.3 with us and had him for two years, he went down to 11.2 but shot a lot of three's when he got to Suns' go figure with Mike D. We didn't develop his three but either did Portland when he was traded there for two seasons before the suns.

    Curry- had his best years as a Knick

    Crawford- interesting that we actually propelled his career, which was good in Chicago but they didn't think good enough to retain him..... we took him to 17.6-4.4-2.4 and on his way to 6th man of the year......I think the Knicks get the development onCraw since we got him at 24 and he left at 28.

    Chandler- we drafted him at 20 years old, 4 seasons with us stats basically stayed status quo throughout his career, actually points dropped one per year.......

    Gallo- drafted at 21 we had him till 24 and his last season had 15.1-4.9, his went on to Denver for 16-4.8 in his prime so do Knicks get the credit?

    Shumpert- we had him till 24, he had a 9.3-3.4 and his career was 7.2-3.3, don't see anything there?

    Lin- obviously Knicks made him or he was in Europe, this was all NY

    Gallaway- his best year in his career was his rookie season with the Knicks we also couldn't retain him because Kings gave him the MLE at 5.2m up from 845K the season before on a multi year deal.

    KP- did the Knicks develop him at his early age putting up MVP numbers to start season 3? At age 24 yes comng off injury he is not putting up those numbers..........stupid trade but not lack of development just stupidity.




    So I'm trying to figure out how when Frank, Knox are still here we don't develop them, compared to what exactly? They both got more than fair shots to step it up, to stick, and both failed.

    RJ is a rookie getting the third most minutes for all rookies and would be leading if not for the injury.

    Mitch a second round pick, a guy that really doesn't have the highest IQ who never played college, who sat out an entire season how do the Knicks not get credit here?

    Trier, Knicks developed him but then lost him, not sure what to make of this one.

    Dotson, not sure Dot would be any different anywhere else, streaky shooter with ok defense that gets beat back door, and straight up.


    Lack of stability and poor drafting and trades and lack of any big time FA's wanting to come here......look no further.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    Been saying this this is why i thought they fired fiz but miller is doing the same shyt
    Word.

  6. #21
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    No way this kid Peters and Iggy shouldn't be playing on the big team... Peters would be the best point guard on the Knicks...

    https://youtu.be/OeivXWd8scw

  7. #22
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    for a while we had the problem of just having very few picks. But you look around the league now and 2 of our draft picks are the #2 & #3 options on a 50 win team and we had them as recently as last year and got very little back for them. Gallo is arguably the best player on a 50 win team, or at least right up there.

    Part of the problem is we ask guys to do too much and are always a mess. THJR was ruined by us in this environment. we drafted him and had no semblance of a team and just let him go nut for 30mpg. That's not player development either, and we did the same with Knox last year. Maybe we'll dump him too and an actual team will fix him. ATL had to fix THJR, and now DAL is getting a great year out of him again. Hopefully i'm not saying the same about RJ, Mitch & Frank in a few years. I do believe those 3 can be key pieces to good teams.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    for a while we had the problem of just having very few picks. But you look around the league now and 2 of our draft picks are the #2 & #3 options on a 50 win team and we had them as recently as last year and got very little back for them. Gallo is arguably the best player on a 50 win team, or at least right up there.

    Part of the problem is we ask guys to do too much and are always a mess. THJR was ruined by us in this environment. we drafted him and had no semblance of a team and just let him go nut for 30mpg. That's not player development either, and we did the same with Knox last year. Maybe we'll dump him too and an actual team will fix him. ATL had to fix THJR, and now DAL is getting a great year out of him again. Hopefully i'm not saying the same about RJ, Mitch & Frank in a few years. I do believe those 3 can be key pieces to good teams.
    Gallo fit and was being used well when we was here. I also don't know if we broke Tim. I kind of think he is who he is and just had some real injury issues with us the second time around. I think the leg and a role that was a bit too big hurt him in his second run. I think when we finally start making a little progress we blow it up and use all our asset in an all in move. If KP was here we'd be an up and coming team. With Melo we gave up everything and also brought in a guy that was opposite of a D'Antoni PG in Billups. Right now we don't have much so it hard to judge what they are doing.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Gallo fit and was being used well when we was here. I also don't know if we broke Tim. I kind of think he is who he is and just had some real injury issues with us the second time around. I think the leg and a role that was a bit too big hurt him in his second run. I think when we finally start making a little progress we blow it up and use all our asset in an all in move. If KP was here we'd be an up and coming team. With Melo we gave up everything and also brought in a guy that was opposite of a D'Antoni PG in Billups. Right now we don't have much so it hard to judge what they are doing.
    yea at this point it's hard to say if we suck at development or just drafting now. Guys like KP & Gallo, I think those are guys that have all star talent and they were going to be damn good no matter who drafted them.

    I think it's when you get to lower tier guys like THJR where the development can really affect their careers. I do believe we hurt him and Knox greatly their rookie years.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    for a while we had the problem of just having very few picks. But you look around the league now and 2 of our draft picks are the #2 & #3 options on a 50 win team and we had them as recently as last year and got very little back for them. Gallo is arguably the best player on a 50 win team, or at least right up there.

    Part of the problem is we ask guys to do too much and are always a mess. THJR was ruined by us in this environment. we drafted him and had no semblance of a team and just let him go nut for 30mpg. That's not player development either, and we did the same with Knox last year. Maybe we'll dump him too and an actual team will fix him. ATL had to fix THJR, and now DAL is getting a great year out of him again. Hopefully i'm not saying the same about RJ, Mitch & Frank in a few years. I do believe those 3 can be key pieces to good teams.
    The difference is all 3 of them Gallo, THJ and KP are playing next to Hall of Fame guards who set them up to look good. Knicks haven't had one of those since Clyde...

    That's why it's so important to get the right point guard this draft. Ball, Anthony, Haliburton, etc... Leon Rose says he is cleaning house and hiring better scouts and development coaches... I'm all for that starting with Miller. I know that he knows Peters, Iggy and Wooten should be playing on this Knicks team with just 24 games left.

    Aren't 2 way Gleague players required to play 25 games?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    for a while we had the problem of just having very few picks. But you look around the league now and 2 of our draft picks are the #2 & #3 options on a 50 win team and we had them as recently as last year and got very little back for them. Gallo is arguably the best player on a 50 win team, or at least right up there.

    Part of the problem is we ask guys to do too much and are always a mess. THJR was ruined by us in this environment. we drafted him and had no semblance of a team and just let him go nut for 30mpg. That's not player development either, and we did the same with Knox last year. Maybe we'll dump him too and an actual team will fix him. ATL had to fix THJR, and now DAL is getting a great year out of him again. Hopefully i'm not saying the same about RJ, Mitch & Frank in a few years. I do believe those 3 can be key pieces to good teams.
    I think Smood touched on this and I agree with him....I think you are seeing players go from an overmatched role to an evenly matched role playing behind or next to great talent and they play better. It's not really rocket science or some sort of developmental mystery.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    The difference is all 3 of them Gallo, THJ and KP are playing next to Hall of Fame guards who set them up to look good. Knicks haven't had one of those since Clyde...

    That's why it's so important to get the right point guard this draft. Ball, Anthony, Haliburton, etc... Leon Rose says he is cleaning house and hiring better scouts and development coaches... I'm all for that starting with Miller. I know that he knows Peters, Iggy and Wooten should be playing on this Knicks team with just 24 games left.

    Aren't 2 way Gleague players required to play 25 games?
    Those guys have always had success. THJR was a very solid #3 in ATL too. Gallo was DEN's best player and led them to 57 wins one year. KP had success here too. We did put THJR in too big a role though to be fair it wasn't the plan until KP got hurt. DAL has been solid even without Doncic. I mean people forget we were 17-14 with KP & THJR until the injuries and fatigue for KP started. But KP's physique is much better now.

    Honestly everything would look so much better if we had just never made that KP trade. KP & THJR are both damn good modern, versatile players, I got laughed at for sticking up for THJR but he got a real bad rap here.
    Last edited by nycericanguy; 02-28-2020 at 12:06 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Those guys have always had success. THJR was a very solid #3 in ATL too. Gallo was DEN's best player and led them to 57 wins one year. KP had success here too. We did put THJR in too big a role though to be fair it wasn't the plan until KP got hurt. DAL has been solid even without Doncic. I mean people forget we were 17-14 with KP & THJR until the injuries and fatigue for KP started. But KP's physique is much better now.

    Honestly everything would look so much better if we had just never made that KP trade. KP & THJR are both damn good modern, versatile players, I got laughed at for sticking up for THJR but he got a real bad rap here.
    Sometimes when you stick up for your guys you turn a blind eye to reality. THJ was super streaky here. At times down right bad. Part of that was role. I think an even bigger part was injury. He has always had the skill set to be a good support player but honestly he didnít always play like one. That said I totally with the rest of your post


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  14. #29
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    Timmy played no defense here, he was a streaky shooter, even his biggest advocates came around and said he was over paid after trying to justify it.

    That said we drafted well at that spot for Timmy and he had good family genes, problem was timing and we brought him back because of his growth in Atlanta.

    How did Timmy grow in Atlanta? Yea that's right they sent him down to the G-league, wow go figure, I said that should have happened for Frank and Knox and got trashed in here for even suggesting it.

    Sometimes players need to be brought to a humble level........what happened here, Timmy was given the keys, the number one option with KP out, when they both played they actually fed off each other. Timmy started off poorly for Dallas, timmy saw the bench and had a nice piece of humble pie, he got motivated and earned his minutes back. Timmy is still streaky, Timmy still is not a defensive stud, but with Dallas Roster and how they play he fits.

    Timmy because of our roster, lack of KP playing just decided to go through the motions and it cost him staying here, because he wanted to be here after the trade.

    The Knicks went all in with the KP trade it failed..........that wasn't lack of development.

    Gallo was developed here we had him for 4 years nothing about his game has changed he just matured. Timmy was developed in the Atlanta G-league which then carried over to Atlanta to end the season then we paid dearly for him in FA because of that short burst of development.

    One could simply say we developed KP, he had a massive improvement from his rookie season to year two in many areas.

    Timmy also grew as a number one option which he never was, but he was given a lot of room to grow as a player.

    My long post still stands, we just made poor decisions on trades, drafts and FA.

    How this is not plain as day is just mind blowing?

    Because Frank and Knox are growing as NBA players?

    Don't even insult Gallo, KP and Timmy the way they shot at the same stage as Knox and Frank.

    And I'm not sure how Gallo is the best on OKC, I think he's more third option there, maybe even fourth.

    Gallo is a stretch four and CP3 has the ball, and Schroder, Alexander both take more shots than the stretch four and handle the ball more.
    That is the perfect fit for Gallo, best fit he's ever had, great opportunity for all of them, and not trading Adams worked out when they thought they were in tank territory.

    OKC has 7 guys with over 21 min per game each one of them has an eFG% of over 50%.......having three PG's all on the court seems to work with a stretch 4 and big center.


    Conclusion, Knicks have a lot to figure out......it's that bad!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Sometimes when you stick up for your guys you turn a blind eye to reality. THJ was super streaky here. At times down right bad. Part of that was role. I think an even bigger part was injury. He has always had the skill set to be a good support player but honestly he didnít always play like one. That said I totally with the rest of your post


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    not really, It's not like I was saying THJR was a franchise player. Like you said it was some injuries and some role, and honestly just the general clusterfcuk we have, but Timmy clearly had a valuable skillset to me in this league. I thought it was a good signing, we desperately needed guard help and a 2nd scorer and a shooter and youth. Timmy was 24 and gave us all of that at a time when we were lacking picks. It was like getting an extra first round pick for nothing but cash.

    we had $78m this summer and I wish we had gotten a 24 year old like Timmy that we could have penciled into our future, but we didn't. it's not that easy and sometimes you gotta overpay a bit for those guys. Ironically DAL will prob resign Timmy at a similar amount.

    I get killed for Frank now too, as if I'm calling him a franchise player. but these are winning players who will have roles on good teams and there's no reason to let these guys go. Every team needs a Frank & THJR.
    Last edited by nycericanguy; 02-28-2020 at 12:40 PM.

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