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  1. #1
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    [The Athletic] calls out the Knicks lack of player development

    The results for the Knicks so far have been underwhelming. There is no single resounding development victory to point to. Frank Ntilikina, the 2017 lottery pick, remains raw, though he has made progress. Kevin Knox, the 2018 lottery pick, has struggled as a sophomore. Mitchell Robinson was a dynamo as a rookie, but it is hard to say definitively that he has gotten better in his second season. Allonzo Trier had a solid debut as an undrafted free agent, earning a two-year contract, but has been marooned on the bench this season.

    The Knicks’ development system has not drawn compliments in talking to some around the NBA. Before this season, the G League team had been a pipeline to the Knicks, with all five of Westchester’s starting lineup getting promoted in 2017-18, but none have stuck with the team. Five players have turned G League deals into NBA deals, though only Kenny Wooten remains in the organization. The players have been seen as bright spots — Trey Burke, Luke Kornet, Noah Vonleh — have been traded or not re-signed. The Knicks did not make Craig Robinson available to talk for this story.

    One constant question has been whether the Knicks devote enough playing time to their young players. That issue has been raised again this season. The Knicks have prioritized veterans over their youth. Ntilikina was swept back into a clogged point guard rotation after getting a chance to start earlier in the year, when Dennis Smith Jr. and Elfrid Payton were away from the team or injured. Knox is playing 10 fewer minutes per game this season than as a rookie, and is averaging just 14.3 over his last 15 games. Smith has regressed altogether from last year, and his playing time has been inconsistent while missing time due to injury and a death in his family. The Knicks have not sent Knox, Smith or Ntilikina to the G League for more minutes.

    “We’re looking at development in a lot of different ways and not saying it’s just about, you just need 25 minutes a game to develop,” interim coach Mike Miller said last week. “I think there’s more to it, there’s more ways that we can help these guys grow than doing that. They’re getting experience and they’re getting opportunities and they’re learning. We’re seeing growth.”

  2. #2
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    This was written by Knicks reporter Mike Vorkunov

  3. #3
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    Been saying this this is why i thought they fired fiz but miller is doing the same shyt

  4. #4
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    Is this really something new?

    I wouldn't call this calling the Knicks out, but I've been saying use the G-league for quite sometime, the problem is maybe the Knicks may see them failing even there then what?

    Development or just players that can't develop?

    Maybe we just stink at drafting?


    I think Mitch can use a big coach, not sure who is telling him what but it's fouls keeping him out and not even attempt a 15 foot shot with no one guarding him is bad development.

    Maybe we can call this a good combination of the org and players. I'd actually love to hear a vet's point of view on how these kids were being developed or not........like a Lance, or Lee, and Kanter is always good for comment or two lol

    And the last point about the paint? It's pretty damn obvious we are last in three point shooting where do you want them to be lol......

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Is this really something new?

    I wouldn't call this calling the Knicks out, but I've been saying use the G-league for quite sometime, the problem is maybe the Knicks may see them failing even there then what?

    Development or just players that can't develop?

    Maybe we just stink at drafting?


    I think Mitch can use a big coach, not sure who is telling him what but it's fouls keeping him out and not even attempt a 15 foot shot with no one guarding him is bad development.

    Maybe we can call this a good combination of the org and players. I'd actually love to hear a vet's point of view on how these kids were being developed or not........like a Lance, or Lee, and Kanter is always good for comment or two lol

    And the last point about the paint? It's pretty damn obvious we are last in three point shooting where do you want them to be lol......
    It's new to the media actually talking about it. They usually dont care. The players may suck, but the knicks dont exactly put players in proper posiiton. Kevin knoX should have been in the g league his confidence is shot up here .

    Start mitch and play him until he fouls out. Dont let gibson a guy who has no future on this team eat up minutes. I would like to see him show off a shot.

    The knicks played themselves they signed all these vets hoping they could trade them and realized that nobody wanted any of these guys outside of morris.

  6. #6
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    It’s right and wrong at the same time.

    Knicks have never been known for development, but at the same time I don’t think the players they’ve tried to develop make things any easier. For all the talk around this, I’m not sure anyone can say they screwed any player up. Most of these guys weren’t viewed that highly to begin with.

    Also, it’s more difficult for bad teams to just bring anyone up from the G League. It seems more beneficial to good teams with an established foundation/talent. It’s much easier to fit players around that structure than one where they are likely to be asked to do too much because on any given night they could be one of the better players on the team.

    I always use the Spurs as an example. Any player they put around Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli seemed like an amazing find. Very few of them were able to have success when not supporting those guys.

  7. #7
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    I mean, this is common knowledge. It's amusing, the Athletic an online publication who employs laid off writers, has to spell it out. Take a look at all the rookies drafted by the Knicks over the decades. It's not promising.

    And Leon Rose is NOT going to rebuild through the draft. He's definitely going to go all-out and lure a superstar to New York. That's why he was brought in.

    And we're back in the loop again...

  8. #8
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    we suck at player development but to make matters worse we always think we are better then we are so we play guys that have no future here every single year trying to win 25 games. We are the only team in the NBA who is actually TRYING to win 25 games and can't even do that.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    I mean, this is common knowledge. It's amusing, the Athletic an online publication who employs laid off writers, has to spell it out. Take a look at all the rookies drafted by the Knicks over the decades. It's not promising.

    And Leon Rose is NOT going to rebuild through the draft. He's definitely going to go all-out and lure a superstar to New York. That's why he was brought in.

    And we're back in the loop again...
    This. But if you look at the Rose's Client list, lots of potential

    https://basketball.******.com/info/a...t/Leon-Rose/25


    Joel Embiid
    Karl Anthony Towns
    Kyle Kuzma
    Devin Booker
    Omri Casspi
    Chris Paul
    Carmelo Anthony
    Mike Conley
    Jonas Valanciunas
    Josh Hart
    Jaren Jackson, Jr.
    Ish Smith
    Robert Covington
    Jalen Brunson
    Collin Sexton

    If he can manage to mix in a few of those players along with RJ , Mitch, and Our Draft pick he can build a pretty good Knicks team. Even with out all the top stars. Just maybe one? Devin Booker. Then maybe bring in Chris Paul at a low price when he expires with OKC. But lots of options now i feel with Leon Rose.
    Last edited by KnickNyKnick; 02-27-2020 at 09:53 AM.

  10. #10
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    I think we are worse at drafting then we are at player development. Most of these guys we are high on and get upset when they leave, end up doing nothing elsewhere either. To Smood's point, there really isn't any recent examples of a player we failed to develop that went on to be good or great elsewhere. I think the whole idea of "development" is kind of overstated. Good players will work hard and break out. Every team has guys who bust and has guys who develop. I don't think you point to the developmental staff for all the successes and failures in that department. You point to the scouts who either drafted a good player or a bad one.

  11. #11
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    It seems like this whole notion of development when framed around the Knicks goes on the assumption that Frank, Knox, Mitch, RJ etc are really much better talents than we are able to see because the Knicks developmental programs are holding them back. It's a giant assumption and I think it's most likely wrong. I think these guys are who they are and would be doing the same ish on 90% of the teams in the league.

    Again to Smood's point, they might be able to thrive more in a smaller and more defined role around an established veteran core and everyone would point to the great development, but in reality they are just in a smaller role, asked to do much less, able to ride the coattails of the stars of the team and look good doing it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    It seems like this whole notion of development when framed around the Knicks goes on the assumption that Frank, Knox, Mitch, RJ etc are really much better talents than we are able to see because the Knicks developmental programs are holding them back. It's a giant assumption and I think it's most likely wrong. I think these guys are who they are and would be doing the same ish on 90% of the teams in the league.

    Again to Smood's point, they might be able to thrive more in a smaller and more defined role around an established veteran core and everyone would point to the great development, but in reality they are just in a smaller role, asked to do much less, able to ride the coattails of the stars of the team and look good doing it.
    Agreed and I think a lot fans see guys stats get better from one year to the next and assume they made some great leap in skill. Most of the time they have not. Guys get older and they get used to playing against this level of competition, they also get physically stronger, they learn to use many of the skills they already have in the NBA context. Brick layers most the time stay brick layers. Guys who can't finish can't finish. I am very disappointed in Knox's effort and feel he may not make it. Even so I can see why we drafted him. He has the skill set to be a very good 3 point shooter and a very good floor runner. Its already there. Hate to say it but Frank isn't turning into Bullips, DSJ into Westbrook, and doubt JR is turning into Jimmy Butler either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  13. #13
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    You want to judge Knox it's almost 2 seasons, his rep well lets just say he's living up to it, so it's a fair assessment at this point, his body language is very telling.

    I think it's fair to judge both DSJ and Frank and they just don't seem to have the personalities to match the Billups or Westbrooks......they are now at the tail end of year three.

    RJ, well it's never fair to judge anyone when he hasn't completed season one. His heart and desire and drive set him apart from all three above.

    He needs a really good summer, he has the genes and surrounded by the right people that it's safe to say he'll get the right advice and hopefully we see RJ come out of the blocks next season well improved.

    The basis is we draft poorly besides getting lucky with KP thanks to dropping back one pick. Will that improve with Mills gone? Not sure how it can't to be Frank.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    You want to judge Knox it's almost 2 seasons, his rep well lets just say he's living up to it, so it's a fair assessment at this point, his body language is very telling.

    I think it's fair to judge both DSJ and Frank and they just don't seem to have the personalities to match the Billups or Westbrooks......they are now at the tail end of year three.

    RJ, well it's never fair to judge anyone when he hasn't completed season one. His heart and desire and drive set him apart from all three above.

    He needs a really good summer, he has the genes and surrounded by the right people that it's safe to say he'll get the right advice and hopefully we see RJ come out of the blocks next season well improved.

    The basis is we draft poorly besides getting lucky with KP thanks to dropping back one pick. Will that improve with Mills gone? Not sure how it can't to be Frank.
    I am ready to move on from DSJ. He is Mudiay 2.0 with a worse attitude. Frank I would like to see get a lot of minutes at the wing. He is a quality defender and did improve his play making this year. If he can bring the same play making skills to the wing spot I definitely think he can be useful. That said I doubt he is more then a good bench player. Knox has gifts so he gets another year to try and turn it around but so far I am disappointed. I think JR and Mitch will make it in this league. Mitch could be a starting center. Surround him with two long shooting wings and he is hell of a rim runner. Its already there. JR is a strong versatile defender with some play making skills. He will at min be a quality bench player but he needs to get better. Trier could be an excellent sub right now maybe could be a quality starting two guard in this league but we buried em. I think we have to stop pretending that anyone under 25 could be Doctor J. I also think we have to start drafting guys with more complete games. It seems we are always going for the project that we think has a higher ceiling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I am ready to move on from DSJ. He is Mudiay 2.0 with a worse attitude. Frank I would like to see get a lot of minutes at the wing. He is a quality defender and did improve his play making this year. If he can bring the same play making skills to the wing spot I definitely think he can be useful. That said I doubt he is more then a good bench player. Knox has gifts so he gets another year to try and turn it around but so far I am disappointed. I think JR and Mitch will make it in this league. Mitch could be a starting center. Surround him with two long shooting wings and he is hell of a rim runner. Its already there. JR is a strong versatile defender with some play making skills. He will at min be a quality bench player but he needs to get better. Trier could be an excellent sub right now maybe could be a quality starting two guard in this league but we buried em. I think we have to stop pretending that anyone under 25 could be Doctor J. I also think we have to start drafting guys with more complete games. It seems we are always going for the project that we think has a higher ceiling.
    Well if DSJ is Mudiay then he'll be a back up in this league somewhere but not at his QO, so he will be waived and become a UFA.

    Well if Frank is a role player, off the bench etc, etc, with maybe's see above, Frank will not get his 8.5m and be waived, fans here can't seem to accept the fact that his rookie scale contract actually hurts him. There is no way you take his 8.5m if things don't change.

    Knox absolutely you have to give him next year, and maybe the next same way we did Frank and DSJ, but unless you can change his personality his MO will not change. For the Knicks sake we'd all love him to become a stretch 4 type player and figure this out.

    Mitch is going to have a nice career, Knicks need to extend his contract next year or we will lose him as well.

    Trier is probably our best shooter, but it's also been awhile and we tend to forget what got him to the bench, he forgot there were 4 other players on the court and played zero defense. And we forgot his shot was actually falling either and the TO's.
    That said marching Ellington out there accomplished what exactly? But Trier was always going to be a UFA after the season we hold nothing to retain him.......teams have the MLE and teams will use part of it to sign him.

    He is far better off leaving for the right situation to play for his next contract, maybe take a two year with player option in year two for say 3.5-4m. He's a cocky kid can't see him here at all next year, that ship sailed.

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