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  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI View Post
    If we hire Kidd instead of Thibs or Kenny, I’m officially done with this team.
    I say this every 3 months and I come running right back

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    No I literally do not really agree we would have been worse. Those two have to be two of the worst players in the entire league for spacing. Payton was shooting like 15% from three, Randle is a horribly slow decision maker who holds the ball, pounds the ball, spins into traffic, plays zero defense and can’t set a proper screen to save his life. When he doesn’t have the ball he stands around like a lump.

    Straight up if you ran Frank-Dot-RJ-Knox-Mitch out there with some Bullock I think the ball moves WAY more, Dot, Bullock, Knox all move without the ball creating motion, the defense is better, we saw these pairings have a way better net rating than trash *** Payton had with anyone.

    There are guys who rack up empty stats and hurt their teams, you remove them and voila the team is better. Payton and Randle are junk food stats guys to me, I think both play extremely ugly, low IQ basketball.

    I am sorry but you are wrong. The team completely fell apart with out Payton on the floor. We were literally the worst team in the NBA when he was hurt.

    As for Randle look who you are replacing him with? Knox’s is a worse defender, was a terrible shooter, and played with no motor.

    I think this is all narrative. if Knox or Bobby gave us something the spacing and floor running they could have provided might have made up for Randle superior numbers but both guys played like trash. Maybe we should have given them more of a chance. The PG situation is just bad but Payton was clearly the best of the bunch


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  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I am sorry but you are wrong. The team completely fell apart with out Payton on the floor. We were literally the worst team in the NBA when he was hurt.

    As for Randle look who you are replacing him with? Knox’s is a worse defender, was a terrible shooter, and played with no motor.

    I think this is all narrative. if Knox or Bobby gave us something the spacing and floor running they could have provided might have made up for Randle superior numbers but both guys played like trash. Maybe we should have given them more of a chance. The PG situation is just bad but Payton was clearly the best of the bunch


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    Yeah because when Payton was gone Randle was still playing and demanding the ball at the top of the key every play where he would do his predictable, ball hog act on repeat. He doesn’t know how to play within the flow of an offense and thinks he’s a number one option when the truth is he’s a throwback big who doesn’t work in today’s league.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Yeah because when Payton was gone Randle was still playing and demanding the ball at the top of the key every play where he would do his predictable, ball hog act on repeat. He doesn’t know how to play within the flow of an offense and thinks he’s a number one option when the truth is he’s a throwback big who doesn’t work in today’s league.
    When he was gone our point guard never pushed the ball and picked up his dribble after he crossed half court. It became incumbent on Randle to create. When Payton came back Randle had the ball 30 feet out a lot less. I don’t like Randle and was one of the few guys on here against the signing from the start but not everything is his fault.


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  5. #755
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    Payton made us better by just having a PG on the roster, when he was out I believe DSJR was also out most of those games so it was literally just Frank at PG. but we could have plugged in just about any vet min PG and it would have been the same, why we chose to instead sign Payton for $8m AND give him the lions share of minutes still boggles my mind.

    there are some moves that look bad in hindsight, but the Payton signing just had ZERO upside to begin with, it never made any sense.

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Payton made us better by just having a PG on the roster, when he was out I believe DSJR was also out most of those games so it was literally just Frank at PG. but we could have plugged in just about any vet min PG and it would have been the same, why we chose to instead sign Payton for $8m AND give him the lions share of minutes still boggles my mind.

    there are some moves that look bad in hindsight, but the Payton signing just had ZERO upside to begin with, it never made any sense.
    I don’t think we should bring him back either but I think by the time beat writers are done hyping FIBA Frank, Thibs, RJ’s off season workout regime etc that everyone is going to think we should in the playoffs again. I would not be surprised if the team does not improve at all especially if we don’t have any real scorers and run out a rookie pg. I don’t mind that. Guys hopefully will improve, we will get a high pick, etc. I do feel expectations could bite us in the ***.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I don’t think we should bring him back either but I think by the time beat writers are done hyping FIBA Frank, Thibs, RJ’s off season workout regime etc that everyone is going to think we should in the playoffs again. I would not be surprised if the team does not improve at all especially if we don’t have any real scorers and run out a rookie pg. I don’t mind that. Guys hopefully will improve, we will get a high pick, etc. I do feel expectations could bite us in the *** if fans don’t accept how bad the team is it Thibs goes ape ****


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    I expect a big leap from RJ, and I think we are moving on from Randle at least being a focal point. All in all I think we'll improve next year but hard to speculate now without seeing the offseason moves.

    ONE good signing that makes sense and fits could help a lot more than signing 7 random guys that have to take 1 year deals. if we get that one guy and RJ takes a leap I could see a big improvement.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    I expect a big leap from RJ, and I think we are moving on from Randle at least being a focal point. All in all I think we'll improve next year but hard to speculate now without seeing the offseason moves.

    ONE good signing that makes sense and fits could help a lot more than signing 7 random guys that have to take 1 year deals. if we get that one guy and RJ takes a leap I could see a big improvement.
    I could see us bringing in a Joe Harris and a rookie PG. it will make for a better style when they are competitive but unless the rookie totally exceeds expectations I don’t see that team
    winning many games

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    Last edited by ewing; 07-24-2020 at 03:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    When he was gone our point guard never pushed the ball and picked up his dribble after he crossed half court. It became incumbent on Randle to create. When Payton came back Randle had the ball 30 feet out a lot less. I don’t like Randle and was one of the few guys on here against the signing from the start but not everything is his fault.


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    Everyone wants to see “flashes” from prospects but then will turn around and say sample size is too small, but from Tommy Dee just today:

    One of the biggest and most satisfying parts of this project is finding the gems.

    Frank Ntilikina and Reggie Bullock were 9th in the entire league in 2-man Net Rating (+21.2) of combos that played at least 100 minutes together right ahead of Lebron/Caruso.

    That’s significant...


    Anyway you’ll turn around and just keep saying he sucks but for some “bizarre” reason net rating is basically team best with Frank and Dot, or Frank and Bullock, I think even Knox had a good stretch of net rating with Frank & Dot...

    After a while the proof is just the proof. Numbers don’t lie and our team plays much better basketball with the young/ball moving combinations than with the vet “get the ball to Randle every play” combinations.

    But I guess these kinds of “flashes” don’t matter because they’re not highlight dunks etc.

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Everyone wants to see “flashes” from prospects but then will turn around and say sample size is too small, but from Tommy Dee just today:

    One of the biggest and most satisfying parts of this project is finding the gems.

    Frank Ntilikina and Reggie Bullock were 9th in the entire league in 2-man Net Rating (+21.2) of combos that played at least 100 minutes together right ahead of Lebron/Caruso.

    That’s significant...


    Anyway you’ll turn around and just keep saying he sucks but for some “bizarre” reason net rating is basically team best with Frank and Dot, or Frank and Bullock, I think even Knox had a good stretch of net rating with Frank & Dot...

    After a while the proof is just the proof. Numbers don’t lie and our team plays much better basketball with the young/ball moving combinations than with the vet “get the ball to Randle every play” combinations.

    But I guess these kinds of “flashes” don’t matter because they’re not highlight dunks etc.
    It not significant. Those two rarely played together and anyone with brain knows they are not top 10 or top 100 as far as 2 man combinations in the league. I think Frank is an over hyped role player role around here bc of his skill set. He is a good defensive guard that doesn’t shoot well, doesn’t take people off the dribble, rarely creates pace, doesn’t get to the line, rarely creates for others, and often stagnates the teams offense by picking up his dribble in no mans land and turning down driving lanes

    You know Randle was part of just about every top 5 man, 4 man, and 3 man lineup for the team? I still don’t like him but It make me thinks. I could say it’s proof he is the best player on team. I won’t though bc it’s not. There are far to many other factors to jump straight to that conclusion

    I respect stats I just don’t cherry pick with them to support already drawn conclusions

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  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by east fb knicks View Post
    I say this every 3 months and I come running right back
    Battered woman syndrome at it’s finest

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    It not significant bc it’s not. Those two rarely played together and anyone with brain knows they are not top 10 or top 100 as far as 2 man combinations in the league. I think Frank is an over hyped role player role around here bc of his skill set. He is a good defensive guard that doesn’t shoot well, doesn’t take people off the dribble, rarely creates pace, doesn’t get to the line, rarely creates for others, and often stagnates the teams offense by picking up his dribble in no mans land and turning down driving lanes

    You know Randle was part of just about every top 5 man, 4 man, and 3 man lineup for the team? I still don’t like him but It make me thinks. I could say it’s proof he is the best player on team. I won’t though bc it’s not

    I respect stats I just don’t cherry pick with them to support already drawn conclusions

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    Yeah that’s a pretty meaningless stat and was probably against terrible teams. Way too much noise.

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Yeah that’s a pretty meaningless stat and was probably against terrible teams. Way too much noise.
    Yes it’s meaningless that everyone on the team plays better and we perform better with Frank on the floor.

  14. #764
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    Giannis tried to save Kidd’s job before he got hired so they probably had a good relationship. That shouldn’t be the primary motivating factor to hiring Kidd obviously, but it doesn’t hurt either.

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfStarks View Post
    Yes it’s meaningless that everyone on the team plays better and we perform better with Frank on the floor.
    We should call up the Lakers maybe they will trade LeBron and Curso for Frank and Reggie. Just show them the stats


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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