Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    5,177

    Manfred is soft and should have stripped the Astros

    Should the Astros 2017 World Series title be vacated? In my opinion, my personal opinion yes. I mean yeah if you cheating, you ain't trying. But sign-stealing has been a part of the game for over 100 years. Yeah you are taught to steal signs from an early age in little league even up to the minors and even up to the MLB. However, using electronics and technology to get an edge over your competition is a bit much not just a bit much like it is over the damn top. Altuve clearly covering his jersey telling his teammates he doesn't want his jersey touched as he is running to home plate and then he immediately goes to the dugout and to the locker room. That ain't normal at all under any circumstances. Watching that over and over again in slow motion and even in 3D it makes **** to me look suspicious as hell. MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred yeah sure he came down with the punishments. I grant him that...taking away their 1st and 2nd round draft picks for 2020 and 2021 as well as firing their GM and other coaches being fired...that was unprecented. However, giving the Astros players immunity in that regard just comes off to me as being soft. In a way it is like nothing will change. I mean they will obviously still cheat but will just do a better job of not getting caught.

    The fact is, is that their title should have been vacated or at the very least stripped. However, that is just how I feel about it. I don't know about any of yous.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    37,862
    No they shouldn't strip them. This isn't amateur sports or the Olympics and there is a collective bargaining agreement in place. If MLB had attempted to punish the players or stripped the title from the team, they would have had a litany of civil issues on their hands because nowhere is that discussed in said CBA.

    Not to mention, there's no way to know the extent of how much help stealing signs was for the Astros and when it helped. The league would have to break it down to individual ABs and how that affected the score of multiple playoff games. Let's not forget that even if they knew was coming, they still had to hit it and have a productive outcome. There are too many moving pieces, too many variables, etc.

    That WS win is already tainted. That's enough.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    218
    If AJ Hinch says it's justifiable to question the legitimacy of the WS title, as he just did with Verducci, it's legitimate for us to question it as well. For now, questioning will have to satisfy us, as Manfred couldn't even bring himself to punish the implicated players.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    50,761
    Altuve don't even like being seen without a shirt on, they can't go and full on strip him.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    113,188
    it has 0 to do with being soft... you cant take away titles period... what they did is ****ed but others have cheated... If you strip titles then strip records for ped users as well etc. It cant be done because it opens up a big *** can of worms.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    37,022
    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    it has 0 to do with being soft... you cant take away titles period... what they did is ****ed but others have cheated... If you strip titles then strip records for ped users as well etc. It cant be done because it opens up a big *** can of worms.
    I mean they have done that in a way to PED users, shunning guys like Bonds and Clemens from the Hall of Fame.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    A Firehouse
    Posts
    35,201
    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    I mean they have done that in a way to PED users, shunning guys like Bonds and Clemens from the Hall of Fame.
    Keeping guys out of a hall is a little different than stripping a world series title. I hate what the Astros did but don't think the title should be stripped. It will forever have that unwritten * next to it. People won't ever forget what happened.

    Kinda how PED guys like Arod will always have that attached to them as well.

    I don't put the PEDs all on the players though. Mlb knew what was going on for a really long time. Like bonds being bonds. Sosa and Mark wild home run years. It put butts in the seat and was entertainment for the fans, MLB could have done anything to want to stop it sooner and they let it go on for a long time.

    Arod was a huge reason yanks won the WS in 09 and he was on roids. We're both Yankee fans. You're an Arod fanatic. Do you think the yanks should have the title stripped?

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RCSownsU; 02-24-2020 at 01:10 AM.
    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    37,022
    Quote Originally Posted by RCSownsU View Post
    Keeping guys out of a hall is a little different than stripping a world series title. I hate what the Astros did but don't think the title should be stripped. It will forever have that unwritten * next to it. People won't ever forget what happened.

    Kinda how PED guys like Arod will always have that attached to them as well.

    I don't put the PEDs all on the players though. Mlb knew what was going on for a really long time. Like bonds being bonds. Sosa and Mark wild home run years. It put butts in the seat and was entertainment for the fans, MLB could have done anything to want to stop it sooner and they let it go on for a long time.

    Arod was a huge reason yanks won the WS in 09 and he was on roids. We're both Yankee fans. You're an Arod fanatic. Do you think the yanks should have the title stripped?

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    No. I also don't think the Astros should have their championship taken away either though.
    BUT, Arod was one dude. The Astros were literally an entire team and organization, not just one guy.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    113,188
    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    I mean they have done that in a way to PED users, shunning guys like Bonds and Clemens from the Hall of Fame.
    but they havent taken away the stats... so yes they arent getting in on a voting system but they cant just take away their stats or a non voting type thing.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    A Firehouse
    Posts
    35,201
    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    No. I also don't think the Astros should have their championship taken away either though.
    BUT, Arod was one dude. The Astros were literally an entire team and organization, not just one guy.
    Yankees late 90s dynasty run was full of guys taking HGH and other performance enhancing drugs. Granted a lot of the league was but Yankees lead the lead in guys who were later found out to be taking PEDs.

    Let's start over! Take away all world series rings. 2020 new start.

    (Kidding before someone takes me seriously)

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    He is talking about the one and only, pure trash: Ereck Flowers

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyskilla View Post
    His stern face can give that impression but I don't feel that's the case. New York isn't an easy place to play at, so honestly I can see his confidence at an all-time low for him.

    I don't think he's a bust. I think he just needs the right motivation to pick himself up & play harder.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    113,188
    and this is why i have always said if you aint cheating you arent trying... who will remember this astros **** in 20 years to the point they will be mad they won?

    go get your world series and **** everyone else because you will lose money and draft picks which means nothing in this sport.

    i aint even mad at the stros... they outsmarted the system... now teams like the yankees etc who have had guys use peds/steal signs are mad... **** off. No team would say well if i had a choice between a world series or a fine for money/draft picks and integrity ima pass on the world series lol


    all this in a sport where 1 team has the ability to spend 250-300 million and the other team can only spend 80-100 million and we wonder why teams cheat? gtfo and stop with the hypocritical ********. The sport is unfair at its core people.
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 02-24-2020 at 04:13 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    37,862
    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    and this is why i have always said if you aint cheating you arent trying... who will remember this astros **** in 20 years to the point they will be mad they won?

    go get your world series and **** everyone else because you will lose money and draft picks which means nothing in this sport.

    i aint even mad at the stros... they outsmarted the system... now teams like the yankees etc who have had guys use peds/steal signs are mad... **** off. No team would say well if i had a choice between a world series or a fine for money/draft picks and integrity ima pass on the world series lol


    all this in a sport where 1 team has the ability to spend 250-300 million and the other team can only spend 80-100 million and we wonder why teams cheat? gtfo and stop with the hypocritical ********. The sport is unfair at its core people.
    The problem is the punishment as currently constituted is not serious enough. The maximum 5 million dollar fine is chump change to these owners, the draft picks and slot allotments hurt but that can be made up for by trading for international bonus money and the players got off Scott free. This doesn't stop teams from cheating in the future. The benefits of winning a WS (and putting up great numbers doing so) are too great to the individual players, the team, the city, etc.

    Something has to be changed in the next CBA where at least there is an independent arbitrator who can hand down punishment to these players if they break the rules like this. I would say give it that power to the commissioner but the way Manfred has handled this (and how he feels about the WS trophy), he doesn't deserve that right. Nevermind the fact that the players would never allow it either.

    That said, there needs to be significantly harsher penalties going forward. Not stripping away titles but long player suspensions, losing whole drafts for multiple years, taking away calendar year (s) of international bonus money, etc. Stuff that will dissuade teams and players from doing this ****.
    Last edited by metswon69; 02-24-2020 at 08:46 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    113,188
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    The problem is the punishment as currently constituted is not serious enough. The maximum 5 million dollar fine is chump change to these owners, the draft picks and slot allotments hurt but that can be made up for by trading for international bonus money and the players got off Scott free. This doesn't stop teams from cheating in the future. The benefits of winning a WS (and putting up great numbers doing so) are too great to the individual players, the team, the city, etc.

    Something has to be changed in the next CBA where at least there is an independent arbitrator who can hand down punishment to these players if they break the rules like this. I would say give it that power to the commissioner but the way Manfred has handled this (and how he feels about the WS trophy), he doesn't deserve that right. Nevermind the fact that the players would never allow it either.

    That said, there needs to be significantly harsher penalties going forward. Not stripping away titles but long player suspensions, losing whole drafts for multiple years, taking away calendar year (s) of international bonus money, etc. Stuff that will dissuade teams and players from doing this ****.
    but look at the pats fine as well tbf... what can people really do? if you fine them 50 million they still wont give a **** and it wont and shouldnt stop anything... if the mlb really wanted to make change they would have flat out wiped the record books of the bonds/clemens/mguires/sosas and so on down the list and said we wont tolerate ****.. OMG BUT THEY DIDNT USE PEDS? LMFAO.... but they didnt. Now a team is doing what every other team tries to do but takes it to the next level and the cheating teams are now pissed because they couldnt cheat like the stros? its hypocritcal ********.... there is maybe a handful of teams that pop into my mind that would never cheat and its maybe the cards? maybe?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    37,022
    Quote Originally Posted by RCSownsU View Post
    Yankees late 90s dynasty run was full of guys taking HGH and other performance enhancing drugs. Granted a lot of the league was but Yankees lead the lead in guys who were later found out to be taking PEDs.

    Let's start over! Take away all world series rings. 2020 new start.

    (Kidding before someone takes me seriously)

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    In.
    #ChaseFor28 is no more!
    #HitPitchRunFor1!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    37,862
    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    but look at the pats fine as well tbf... what can people really do? if you fine them 50 million they still wont give a **** and it wont and shouldnt stop anything... if the mlb really wanted to make change they would have flat out wiped the record books of the bonds/clemens/mguires/sosas and so on down the list and said we wont tolerate ****.. OMG BUT THEY DIDNT USE PEDS? LMFAO.... but they didnt. Now a team is doing what every other team tries to do but takes it to the next level and the cheating teams are now pissed because they couldnt cheat like the stros? its hypocritcal ********.... there is maybe a handful of teams that pop into my mind that would never cheat and its maybe the cards? maybe?
    There's no way the commissioner increases the maximum dollar fine on the owners. He works for the owners so we can throw that out the window. The next way to hurt these teams is taking away whole year(s) of their drafts and international bonus pools. Take away 2 or 3 years of that and I bet you teams aren't letting that **** happen.

    As for the players, yeah, they may take their chances like they did with PEDs. Anything to gain a competitive edge but the fact that they were immune to punishment is a joke. Altuve deserves a full season ban so does Bregman. Put half that team on the sidelines for 40 or more games where they have to throw out a minor league linep and maybe its embarrassment enough where players give it a second thought.

    Not to mention, hand out more serious punishments to the coaches and front office executives who overlook and sometimes actively participate in this ****. Bet you if 5 years came down instead of one that would send a message as well.

    Nothing here makes them flinch in the slightest for the players, owners or team executives.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •