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  1. #1231
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    It's going to happen but it's clear now why the owners have been negotiating in bad faith this whole time. This all just makes me feel gross and really want to just not watch.

    Not to mention that the whole mess with Marquee has not been resolved either. Plus I'm sure we'll get some wonderful stories over the next couple months about the cozy relationship between some of the Ricketts family and Trump.

    I will say this, 2021 CBA is going to be an UGLY negotiation.
    Yep. I'd assume there's going to be a complete lack of a season in there. Which completely and utterly sucks. With the 1/3rd of a season coming in 2020, and maybe no 2022 season...we're going to be basically out of baseball for more than half of 3 years.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 06-10-2020 at 01:00 PM.

  2. #1232
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Yep. I'd assume there's going to be a complete lack of a season in there. Which completely and utterly sucks. With the 1/3rd of a season coming in 2020, and maybe no 2022 season...we're going to be basically out of baseball for more than half of 3 years.
    Disgusting.

    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  3. #1233
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    Its so interesting to read everyone thoughts on this shutdown. It really does come down to your politics. If you progressive, you see everything the owners do as bad. If you conservative, you see everything the Unions do as bad. The reality probably lies somewhere in between but how far to one side or the other is what id like to know.

  4. #1234
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    Manfred confirms "we're going to play baseball in 2020. That's 100%". That he'd rather have an agreement with the MLBPA, but that if it means he has to use the agreement signed in March (that he can enact a season of his choosing at full pro-rata), he will do that.

  5. #1235
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    Manfred also said "next offer will be a significant move in the players direction"

    Lets see what that means. So far they've taken hardly a baby step.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  6. #1236
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Manfred confirms "we're going to play baseball in 2020. That's 100%". That he'd rather have an agreement with the MLBPA, but that if it means he has to use the agreement signed in March (that he can enact a season of his choosing at full pro-rata), he will do that.
    That’s refreshing to hear. I really hope they come to an agreement soon that everybody can be somewhat happy with. I just really don’t want a lockout in 2 years.


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  7. #1237
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    Its so interesting to read everyone thoughts on this shutdown. It really does come down to your politics. If you progressive, you see everything the owners do as bad. If you conservative, you see everything the Unions do as bad. The reality probably lies somewhere in between but how far to one side or the other is what id like to know.
    I'm really curious what the argument is for not paying players the amount specified in their contracts.

  8. #1238
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    I get a kick on some of the posters' take on this. Without major league baseball, all these players would be forced to play in other leagues where they would make exponentially less money. Most of these people don't have any other skill sets. This is literally all they can do.

    What you're watching is an argument between billionaire owners (supported by businesses that fund them) vs their multi-millionaire employees (who are only getting paid this obscene amount of money in this one particular league). There are other players scattered around other leagues that have to skill level to be playing in the MLB, yet they're getting paid proportionally way less money playing elsewhere in the world. We've seen numerous instances of players abroad making the transition to MLB. The talent gap is narrowing very quickly (its certainly not there yet), yet the pay disparity is drastic.

    As much as you might hate it, the owners are taking a giant hit financially - and it's these same owners that are able to provide MLB players this type of life style (yes, based on the profit that we as consumers help them generate). However, their profit margins are now shredded. All they basically have are merchandise and whatever their TV deals are, yet their businesses model was built to also rely on generated money from ticket sales, contracts for food/service providers, and leases at their stadium in order to pay for all of this. On top of that there's going to be additional expenses to provide for testing - and all this stuff affects them all the way down to their farm systems.

    I have no problem supporting and watching these other leagues if they cannot reach an agreement. I'm not super impressed with the owners, but the players association needs a dose of reality.


    "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

    - Romans 8:25

  9. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    I'm really curious what the argument is for not paying players the amount specified in their contracts.
    You don't think those negotiations were done with full season in mind?

  10. #1240
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    It seems clear to me that the owners are more than willing to pay the players about 31% of their salary.

    They play 50 games? They get a full pro rated salary for 50 games

    They play 81 games? They get a full pro rated salary........for 50 games.

    They play 114 games? They get a full pro rated salary..........for 50 games.

    It's pretty clear that they have a number that they are willing to pay. They want to pay the players for about 50 games, even if they play 100 games.

  11. #1241
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    Quote Originally Posted by The20thK View Post
    You don't think those negotiations were done with full season in mind?
    Sure, but why should employees have to take a pay cut just because ownership may have a done year? They've already agreed to only be paid for the number of games they play.

    There's no Constitutional right in this country that guarantees businesses need to make a profit every year.

  12. #1242
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    Sure, but why should employees have to take a pay cut just because ownership may have a done year? They've already agreed to only be paid for the number of games they play.

    There's no Constitutional right in this country that guarantees businesses need to make a profit every year.
    Well, if we're talking about agreements, it's the players' association that's asking for a new agreement - with protections put in place for testing etc that would have otherwise left them very vulnerable to contracting corona. Consequentially, since they're now asking for a new agreement the owners are also renegotiating more favorable terms since just like the players - they also have a change in circumstances - mainly a change in revenue streams.

    A lot of this probably has to do with the collective bargaining act. Suspended seasons are probably something that it accounts for. Granted, I'm not a sports law attorney or agent.


    "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

    - Romans 8:25

  13. #1243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusader View Post
    Well, if we're talking about agreements, it's the players' association that's asking for a new agreement - with protections put in place for testing etc that would have otherwise left them very vulnerable to contracting corona. Consequentially, since they're now asking for a new agreement the owners are also renegotiating more favorable terms since just like the players - they also have a change in circumstances - mainly a change in revenue streams.

    A lot of this probably has to do with the collective bargaining act. Suspended seasons are probably something that it accounts for. Granted, I'm not a sports law attorney or agent.
    Actually, you're pretty much wrong on all of this.

    MLB and the players agreed in March that the players would be paid 100% of their pro rated salaries whenever baseball did come back. Now it's the owners that want to renegotiate that deal and offer the players less.

  14. #1244
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    Anybody catch Kaplan’s podcast this morning advocating for Theo to be commissioner when his contract is up with the Cubs in 2021? Thoughts?


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  15. #1245
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    Actually, you're pretty much wrong on all of this.

    MLB and the players agreed in March that the players would be paid 100% of their pro rated salaries whenever baseball did come back. Now it's the owners that want to renegotiate that deal and offer the players less.
    "Each of the parties shall work in good faith to as soon as is practicable commence, play, and complete the fullest 2020 championship season and postseason that is economically feasible,” the agreement says. There must be no legal restrictions on mass gathering and travel, and a determination that play “does not pose an unreasonable health and safety risk to players, staff or spectators.”

    Well, it looks like this is part of what they actually agreed to.

    Hmm. I'm curious why they need a separate agreement aside from the CBA - unless the CBA specifically allows for situations like this to be resolved separately. I cannot say I've ever actually read through the CBA though.

    The conclusion that players get paid 100% of their pro rated salaries occurs only IF (1) it's economically feasible, (2) that there are no restrictions on mass gatherings (there are), and (3) that it doesn't pose an unreasonable risk to spectators (it does).

    Basically, the prior frame work regarding pay doesn't take effect because the actual conditions are worse than what they had previously contemplated. As such, it doesn't apply and they need to come up with a different agreement, which is exactly what the owners are trying to do.
    Last edited by Crusader; 06-12-2020 at 08:58 AM.


    "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

    - Romans 8:25

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