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  1. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I have a question for you. I haven't been following this as much as you have.

    Why can't they just get paid for the amount of games they play? If they play 81 games, they get 50% of their salary. If they play 114 games, they get 70% of their salary.

    What is the hold up?

    I would imagine that the owners are going to say we can't afford it without any gate revenue. But that's not the player's problem. This is the whole risk part of having a business. They have been reaping the benefits for years
    Yep.

    The answer to your question is because the owners are refusing to do it. Thatís exactly what the players are requesting, they want to play as many games as possible and be paid prorated salaries.

    The owners are trying to force the players to take pay cuts to subsidize losses.

    The end result looks to be either that the players bend or the owners agree to prorated salaries but force a very short 48-50ish game season to keep the total salary cost in the same range as their other proposals to players.

  2. #1217
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I have a question for you. I haven't been following this as much as you have.

    Why can't they just get paid for the amount of games they play? If they play 81 games, they get 50% of their salary. If they play 114 games, they get 70% of their salary.

    What is the hold up?

    I would imagine that the owners are going to say we can't afford it without any gate revenue. But that's not the player's problem. This is the whole risk part of having a business. They have been reaping the benefits for years
    You've just outlined the players argument. Pay us full pro-rata, which we agreed upon in March. The owners now claim that they cannot afford this with the gate money gone. It's why they've, at every turn, tried to get the expenses around the 30-35% pay range vs 50% (which is what 82 games, full pro-rata would look like). They've done so by offering 48 games at pro-rata. They just did again by offering 76 games at 57 games worth of pay but a higher potential if they playoffs go off without a hitch. Either way, it's birds of the same feather being offered.

    But you're right. One of the "pro-ownership" arguments has always been "they take all of the risk". But the very first moment they have risk, it's suddenly the player's job to subsidize the owners. The players, who, get zero bonuses for things like sellouts or raised ticket prices, mind you, are being asked to subsidize when the field isn't filled. Its ridiculous.

    The players need to back off this stupid 114 game thing which is just bananas. But the owners need to back off this refusal to pay the players and for it to be their job to assume some of the risk of owning a business.

    Sadly, we're probably days away from anything more than 60 or so games being feasible. If we get three weeks of ST, and a week to report, they probably can't start until July 10th or so right now. Every day it bumps. What we're going to probably get is a 48 game schedule from Manfred. The owners believe they can do that with the way everything is set up, and the players just have to play. The players will file a grievance. They'll play 48 games from August through September. It'll be weird, because there's going to be a lot of extra dead time and off days. And this will all but guarantee a shutdown/lockout in 2022 for a length of time as the CBA expires.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 06-09-2020 at 12:46 PM.

  3. #1218
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    Jason Kipnis, "It doesn't sound like we're going to come to an agreement because the two sides are too far apart." Also mentioned that Manfred can simply implement a season for everyone.

    But don't worry, the Cardinals chairman informed everyone that baseball isn't "very profitable". Right.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 06-09-2020 at 07:16 PM.

  4. #1219
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    Funny how both sides keep saying they're not going to counter then a day or two later they do..lol

    They're going about it the long way, but it looks like when it over it going to end up being 82 games

    https://twitter.com/JesseRogersESPN/...235996672?s=19
    Last edited by chibears55; 06-09-2020 at 08:49 PM.

  5. #1220
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Funny how both sides keep saying they're not going to counter then a day or two later they do..lol

    They're going about it the long way, but it looks like when it over it going to end up being 82 games

    https://twitter.com/JesseRogersESPN/...235996672?s=19
    No one thinks it's going to be around 82 games except the players. It's almost assuredly going to be a 48-60 game schedule, with 48 being the most likely line. The Owners have consistently offered ~30-35% of full salaried options. Their most recent offer, which was considered a step back by the MLBPA offered less guaranteed money than 30%, with the potential to get to ~35% if there was a playoffs. It was only an increase of 4% even with the playoffs over their initial offer. The players were going to get a 4% across the board increase for playing 50% more games (48 pro-rata to 76 games at 75% pro-rata).

    They're not just going to jump another 15% in the next week (about as much time as they'd need to actually play an 82 game schedule) at full pro-rata. The only way 82 games happens is if in the next week the players accept a significantly less than a full pro-rata salary. And that doesn't seem anywhere near likely. The owners, especially with no reason to, will not just throw down 82 games. Manfred can make a decision on a season. He works for ownership. He will throw down a shorter season. It has to be pro-rata if he does.

    There will be a season with the development that Manfred can bang a gavel and the players have to play. But it's not going to be 82. It's going to be in that far lower range. And probably 48 games, played between August and September.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 06-09-2020 at 08:40 PM.

  6. #1221
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    Jon Heyman; "Initial reax from ownership is that 'we're nowhere' "

    Joel Sherman; "Question to a management person not directly involved in negotiations but briefed on them: Did this union offer move the ball? Response: Zero"

  7. #1222
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Funny how both sides keep saying they're not going to counter then a day or two later they do..lol

    They're going about it the long way, but it looks like when it over it going to end up being 82 games

    https://twitter.com/JesseRogersESPN/...235996672?s=19
    Thinking about this now, what do they normally play after the break?
    70 games or so?

    That probably where they end up

  8. #1223
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibears55 View Post
    Thinking about this now, what do they normally play after the break?
    70 games or so?

    That probably where they end up
    https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/sta...17847677075457

    More like that.

  9. #1224
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Jon Heyman; "Initial reax from ownership is that 'we're nowhere' "

    Joel Sherman; "Question to a management person not directly involved in negotiations but briefed on them: Did this union offer move the ball? Response: Zero"
    God these people are intolerable. At least the players have been moving towards the owners somewhat. Every offer from ownership has been either the same thing in a different structure or has even gone marginally backwards.

    Edit: Not to mention that absolute muppet DeWitt coming out and saying MLB isn't very profitable. Full of ****, the lot of em.
    Last edited by TheRealTI; 06-09-2020 at 09:29 PM.

  10. #1225
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    God these people are intolerable. At least the players have been moving towards the owners somewhat. Every offer from ownership has been either the same thing in a different structure or has even gone marginally backwards.

    Edit: Not to mention that absolute muppet DeWitt coming out and saying MLB isn't very profitable. Full of ****, the lot of em.
    I didnít think I could possibly think less of the owners 4 months ago, then this pandemic came along.

  11. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealTI View Post
    God these people are intolerable. At least the players have been moving towards the owners somewhat. Every offer from ownership has been either the same thing in a different structure or has even gone marginally backwards.

    Edit: Not to mention that absolute muppet DeWitt coming out and saying MLB isn't very profitable. Full of ****, the lot of em.
    Entirely. The owners were always slimy and gross but they generally hid it. But when you have guys who wont even pay their minor league players? Furloughing scouts? Dicking the players this much? Yeah, it's reprehensible. These guys suck and don't give a **** about baseball.

  12. #1227
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    The owners make me sick, especially the Ricketts.

  13. #1228
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Entirely. The owners were always slimy and gross but they generally hid it. But when you have guys who wont even pay their minor league players? Furloughing scouts? Dicking the players this much? Yeah, it's reprehensible. These guys suck and don't give a **** about baseball.
    I've been saying this for years. It's a business to them. They don't care about the game, the players, or the fans. They care about money. That's it.

  14. #1229
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    Bob Nightengale reports that we're about a week away from Manfred throwing down a 50 game season. The two sides are $900m away from each other.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...rs/5331170002/

  15. #1230
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Bob Nightengale reports that we're about a week away from Manfred throwing down a 50 game season. The two sides are $900m away from each other.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...rs/5331170002/
    It's going to happen but it's clear now why the owners have been negotiating in bad faith this whole time. This all just makes me feel gross and really want to just not watch.

    Not to mention that the whole mess with Marquee has not been resolved either. Plus I'm sure we'll get some wonderful stories over the next couple months about the cozy relationship between some of the Ricketts family and Trump.

    I will say this, 2021 CBA is going to be an UGLY negotiation.

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