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  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyboys View Post
    ST does matter for fringe guys. It doesnít hurt for minor league guys to leave that good impression either. I know Nico was our best prospect last year, but look at the opportunity he got last year. You never know when your name is going to be called. So yeah, nobody really cares what KB, Rizzo, Javy or any of those guys do. But what Miller, Descalso, all the BP arms fighting for spots, etc all matter a lot.


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    32 ABs are meaningless during the regular season. Ian Miller's 32 he's had in ST surely don't mean anything to anyone who knows anything about baseball. His 1 month sample shouldn't say anything either. Unless you believe he's having some sudden random turnaround at age 28, his bad-underwhelming minor league career numbers tell you everything you need to know. The Cubs might use Ian Miller as a pinch runner this year because they have a 26th man and no halfway competent hitters as alternatives.
    Last edited by La_bibbers; 03-08-2020 at 11:21 PM.

  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyboys View Post
    ST does matter for fringe guys. It doesnít hurt for minor league guys to leave that good impression either. I know Nico was our best prospect last year, but look at the opportunity he got last year. You never know when your name is going to be called. So yeah, nobody really cares what KB, Rizzo, Javy or any of those guys do. But what Miller, Descalso, all the BP arms fighting for spots, etc all matter a lot.


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    It shouldn't though. If you thought Descalso was trash...if he had 30 PAs of awesomeness...it shouldn't change anything. Same for anyone, really. If you think someone is great, the same can be said. Truthfully, ST should only be "really important" for the 2-3 ST arms. And only on the stuff side of thing.

    These guys are effectively playing against a range between actual MLB players and minor league fodder. Many are working on their own personal things.

    The pumpkins like Ian Miller will be pumpkins on the MLB roster. If he makes the roster...whatever. But I hope it's based on "he's fast and could be a good runner" and not "well he was good this spring".

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  3. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    32 ABs are meaningless during the regular season. Ian Miller's 32 he's had in ST surely don't mean anything to anyone who knows anything about baseball. His 1 month sample shouldn't say anything either. Unless you believe he's having some sudden random turnaround at age 28, his bad-underwhelming minor league career numbers tell you everything you need to know. The Cubs might use Ian Miller as a pinch runner this year because they have a 26th man and no halfway competent hitters as alternatives.
    Iím seriously not doing this Ian Miller thing again. I mean if it wasnít for all the bullpen guys we would be talking about 2-3 guys where ST actually matters for them. I watched an interview during a game the other day where a Cubs coach (canít remember which one) was asked this question and he said it does matter to an extent. He talked about how he was a fringe guy 1 year and hit a ton of homers in spring and made the team as a 25th guy. When you have a couple of guys fighting for 1-2 roster spots, then how else do you determine which makes the team? I think I actually agree with what Stratos said. If Ian Miller was hitting .150 and striking out in half of his ABís would he even be in the conversation? Iím not so sure he would. Itís not like Iím saying ďwell Contreras is hitting .180 this spring, should we be worried?Ē No Iím saying what guys fighting for the last 2 roster spots does matter. There has to be some way to determine who makes the team.


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  4. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    It shouldn't though. If you thought Descalso was trash...if he had 30 PAs of awesomeness...it shouldn't change anything. Same for anyone, really. If you think someone is great, the same can be said. Truthfully, ST should only be "really important" for the 2-3 ST arms. And only on the stuff side of thing.

    These guys are effectively playing against a range between actual MLB players and minor league fodder. Many are working on their own personal things.

    The pumpkins like Ian Miller will be pumpkins on the MLB roster. If he makes the roster...whatever. But I hope it's based on "he's fast and could be a good runner" and not "well he was good this spring".

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    Descalso is trash, but the fact heís still here says something. If he gets cut after spring, then itís obvious what he did during ST did matter. Maybe theyíre giving him this last opportunity to see if he can prove he can get back to being atleast a decent bench option.


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  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyboys View Post
    Iím seriously not doing this Ian Miller thing again. I mean if it wasnít for all the bullpen guys we would be talking about 2-3 guys where ST actually matters for them. I watched an interview during a game the other day where a Cubs coach (canít remember which one) was asked this question and he said it does matter to an extent. He talked about how he was a fringe guy 1 year and hit a ton of homers in spring and made the team as a 25th guy. When you have a couple of guys fighting for 1-2 roster spots, then how else do you determine which makes the team? I think I actually agree with what Stratos said. If Ian Miller was hitting .150 and striking out in half of his ABís would he even be in the conversation? Iím not so sure he would. Itís not like Iím saying ďwell Contreras is hitting .180 this spring, should we be worried?Ē No Iím saying what guys fighting for the last 2 roster spots does matter. There has to be some way to determine who makes the team.


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    Coaches say lots of stuff that isn't true. He can't exactly say ST doesn't matter. It's as I've already said, all the context around the player is likely gonna play a bigger factor in who makes the team than not. The Cubs might prefer to have a guy who runs fast and can't hit over DD who can't hit or run fast. I don't think the Cubs believe Ian Miller is anything more than that, nor should the fans. In the case of the bullpen, pending any kind of Rick Ankiel like yips, I also don't think the performance will mean anything in the bullpen. There's no doubt the last two spots between Weick, Underwood, Megill will be a tough decision, but I don't think it'll come down to ST performance. Notice I don't even include guys like Sadler or Terpera cause I just don't even think there's enough upside there for the Cubs to consider them over the 3 above, even with perfect ST.

    Quote Originally Posted by ivyboys View Post
    Descalso is trash, but the fact heís still here says something. If he gets cut after spring, then itís obvious what he did during ST did matter. Maybe theyíre giving him this last opportunity to see if he can prove he can get back to being atleast a decent bench option.


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    I don't think it does say anything other than that he has a guaranteed salary and the Cubs haven't made their final cuts yet. If he's not around, it's because he sucks, which they knew well before ST. If he makes the team, it's because they have no one better & again, they paid him a guaranteed salary.

  6. #531
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    For the most part, I think ST stats are meaningless. Most stats may have been acquired against minor league guys, or guys that are major leaguers, but working on something to improve themselves. But for 1 or 2 guys on each team, it very much matters. For a guy trying to be the guy at the end of the bench, the decision may be made based on on ST. If all things are equal, how a player did in the very short time he had in ST is going to matter.

    But, at the end of the day, the 25th, and 26th men are likely not going to matter anyway. And they may actually not be on the roster the entire season.

  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivyboys View Post
    Descalso is trash, but the fact heís still here says something. If he gets cut after spring, then itís obvious what he did during ST did matter. Maybe theyíre giving him this last opportunity to see if he can prove he can get back to being atleast a decent bench option.


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    Or there's just no reason to cut him now because someone will maybe trade for him. I mean, Rivas is still in camp. He's had 40 PA's above A+ ball. I don't think that means anything, either.

  8. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    For the most part, I think ST stats are meaningless. Most stats may have been acquired against minor league guys, or guys that are major leaguers, but working on something to improve themselves. But for 1 or 2 guys on each team, it very much matters. For a guy trying to be the guy at the end of the bench, the decision may be made based on on ST. If all things are equal, how a player did in the very short time he had in ST is going to matter.

    But, at the end of the day, the 25th, and 26th men are likely not going to matter anyway. And they may actually not be on the roster the entire season.
    I find it hard to believe all things are ever that equal. Ian Miller's been an awful minor leaguer for years. Not sure how anyone equals that.

  9. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I find it hard to believe all things are ever that equal. Ian Miller's been an awful minor leaguer for years. Not sure how anyone equals that.
    He's essentially Terrance Gore. Speed and nothing else.
    Screw sabermetics.

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefire View Post
    He's essentially Terrance Gore. Speed and nothing else.
    Correct. Quinton Berry is another example. The 26th spot will allow teams the flexibility for speed/baserunning players to be included. It's all it is.

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    Correct. Quinton Berry is another example. The 26th spot will allow teams the flexibility for speed/baserunning players to be included. It's all it is.
    Agreed. And I hope that does not get Miller on the team. If we are going to agree that 4 of the bench guys are Souza, Caratini, Almora and whoever doesn't start at second (Kipnis or Bote) I would like to see the 5th spot go to someone like Phegley over Miller. With Phegley the Cubs can use Caratini to pinch hit more often without fearing using the last catcher on the bench. I feel that 26th spot is perfect for carrying a 3rd catcher, especially when the primary #2 guy is also possibly your best bench bat. Now, if they wanted to trade Almora for a low level minor league player and use Miller as a reserve outfielder, I can see that for him. But I do not see Almora and Miller both on the team.

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Agreed. And I hope that does not get Miller on the team. If we are going to agree that 4 of the bench guys are Souza, Caratini, Almora and whoever doesn't start at second (Kipnis or Bote) I would like to see the 5th spot go to someone like Phegley over Miller. With Phegley the Cubs can use Caratini to pinch hit more often without fearing using the last catcher on the bench. I feel that 26th spot is perfect for carrying a 3rd catcher, especially when the primary #2 guy is also possibly your best bench bat. Now, if they wanted to trade Almora for a low level minor league player and use Miller as a reserve outfielder, I can see that for him. But I do not see Almora and Miller both on the team.
    I don't feel terribly strongly in how I want the Cubs want to approach the 26th spot. Since you bring it up though, the Cubs could just have Schwarber as the emergency catcher. I recall Maddon giving him the roll last year. Obviously anything prolonged would result in another catcher getting called up, but if they wanted Caratini to be the first guy off the bench, as they should, you always got Schwarber to do spot duties as needed.

  13. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    I don't feel terribly strongly in how I want the Cubs want to approach the 26th spot. Since you bring it up though, the Cubs could just have Schwarber as the emergency catcher. I recall Maddon giving him the roll last year. Obviously anything prolonged would result in another catcher getting called up, but if they wanted Caratini to be the first guy off the bench, as they should, you always got Schwarber to do spot duties as needed.
    That is true. But it is a little more complicated since most likely he would be in the game. And I am not sure how happy the Cubs would be to see Schwarber behind the plate. That said, I agree that the last spot on the team isn't a major issue. Honestly, I think when Nico comes up, neither Phegley nor Miller will be on the team.

  14. #539
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    2016 World Series Champions!!!


  15. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    I find it hard to believe all things are ever that equal. Ian Miller's been an awful minor leaguer for years. Not sure how anyone equals that.
    I'm not sure what Miller has to do with my post. I never suggested that he would make the team and I never mentioned his performance in Spring training.

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