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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Not saying your wrong but in general on social issues society does tend to get less conservative over time. For example, support for Gay Marriage is in the upper 60's, but as recently as the early 00's it was in the 40's and in '96 it was 27%. We have also seen a similar trend with acceptance of Marijuana.

    Also, young people were not why Trump won the Presidency.

    https://www.kqed.org/lowdown/24448/h...ntial-election

    37% of people 18-29 voted for the Republican in both 2012 and 2016. The difference was that only 55% voted for Clinton in 2016 compared to 60% for Obama in 2012. I doubt the reason they didn't support Hillary was her progressivism.
    I think it's more affluence than time.

  2. #77
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    progressism had nothing to do with de-crinimalization of pot, it was money. States didn't look at the drop in incraceration rate but the money that weed brought into the system. Much like the numbers racket or policy game, the state saw how much money it was bringing in and made it legal so they can rake in the cash

    A purely progressive approach to pot legalization would be to wipe out the underground market and encourage people to grow their own, but here in Chicago, they are so greedy for the money that it is way far more expense then the street, thus this underground markets still and will continue to flourish. The money that the criminal element makes is untouched as is their power within the community they terrorizes.
    Last edited by WES445; 02-22-2020 at 10:52 AM.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    progressism had nothing to do with de-crinimalization of pot, it was money. States didn't look at the drop in incraceration rate but the money that weed brought into the system. Much like the numbers racket or policy game, the state saw how much money it was bringing in and made it legal so they can rake in the cash

    A purely progressive approach to pot legalization would be to wipe out the underground market and encourage people to grow their own, but here in Chicago, they are so greedy for the money that it is way far more expense then the street, thus this underground markets still and will continue to flourish. The money that the criminal element makes is untouched as is their power within the community they terrorizes.
    Yeah, they bungled the bill and its implementation. That being said, if the state catches you with 5 plants or less, you pay them $200.
    I'm exploring the craft grower license with an investor, I had past charges and get to butt in line(as if that makes a lick of sense.)
    Last edited by benny01; 02-22-2020 at 12:14 PM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    progressism had nothing to do with de-crinimalization of pot, it was money. States didn't look at the drop in incraceration rate but the money that weed brought into the system. Much like the numbers racket or policy game, the state saw how much money it was bringing in and made it legal so they can rake in the cash

    A purely progressive approach to pot legalization would be to wipe out the underground market and encourage people to grow their own, but here in Chicago, they are so greedy for the money that it is way far more expense then the street, thus this underground markets still and will continue to flourish. The money that the criminal element makes is untouched as is their power within the community they terrorizes.
    Iím not talking about the States implementation, Iím talking about sentiments. The States didnít make acceptance of Marijuana among the population over time, peopleís changing views did.

    Also, most States only legalized Marijuana after intense pressure and overwhelming support from the people. States legalizing Marijuana was a reaction to public sentiment, not the other way around.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Iím not talking about the States implementation, Iím talking about sentiments. The States didnít make acceptance of Marijuana among the population over time, peopleís changing views did.

    Also, most States only legalized Marijuana after intense pressure and overwhelming support from the people. States legalizing Marijuana was a reaction to public sentiment, not the other way around.
    I know about the overwhelming support for marijuana, like you said it that was gradual thing, but intense pressure? I don't recall mass protest marches to illegalize it. I can name serveral protests that were more intense then the pot activitist marches, that didn't change politicians' policies. Their marches look like a hippie get together and a reason smoke dope in public.

    You can't deny that there is a big money incentive for government to legalize pot. I watch our mayor salivate over the idea of extra money coming into our city coffers. Money was the intense pressure to legalize it.

    The public sentiments plays very little in government policies by itself, otherwise we would have a great school system and good policing.
    Last edited by WES445; 02-22-2020 at 02:38 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I know about the overwhelming support for marijuana, like you said it that was gradual thing, but intense pressure? I don't recall mass protest marches to illegalize it. I can name serveral protests that were more intense then the pot activitist marches, that didn't change politicians' policies. Their marches look like a hippie get together and a reason smoke dope in public.

    You can't deny that there is a big money incentive for government to legalize pot. I watch our mayor salivate over the idea of extra money coming into our city coffers. Money was the intense pressure to legalize it.

    The public sentiments plays very little in government policies by itself, otherwise we would have a great school system and good policing.
    I believe the majority of legalized marijuana laws came from initiatives put on the ballot by popular signatures, not introduced by state legislatures.

    A lot of these states never would have legalized it if not for the people putting the decision on the ballot.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I believe the majority of legalized marijuana laws came from initiatives put on the ballot by popular signatures, not introduced by state legislatures.

    A lot of these states never would have legalized it if not for the people putting the decision on the ballot.
    The timeline according Wikipedia give you some wiggle room there. Illinois, it was a newly elected governor who got it done. We must agree to disagree to the the major reasons that pot was made legal in a few states. I am sorry I just didn't the the intense public pressure to legalize pot as we see with other issues.
    Last edited by WES445; 02-22-2020 at 07:57 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    The timeline according Wikipedia give you some wiggle room there. Illinois, it was a newly elected governor who got it done. We must agree to disagree to the the major reasons that pot was made legal in a few states. I am sorry I just didn't the the intense public pressure to legalize pot as we see with other issues.
    I could be mistaken, but I think he is right that the popular ballots have gotten the ball rolling with regard to legalization/decriminalization. Legislatures and governors are slow to move, especially in areas that could potentially cost them big time with grants and other federal money. The people want their freedom. They are far less concerned about the money.
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I could be mistaken, but I think he is right that the popular ballots have gotten the ball rolling with regard to legalization/decriminalization. Legislatures and governors are slow to move, especially in areas that could potentially cost them big time with grants and other federal money. The people want their freedom. They are far less concerned about the money.
    I concede the point and thank you for the correction. I guess I got tied up in what I saw as the growing economical/social discontent as being more a factor then gradual progressive sentiment. I see the more energrized activitism of this younger generation as the reasons for these advancments. This country has always been more liberal then Capitol Hill, it just seems like over the last decade we have seen more changes made.

  10. #85
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    Bloomberg is a cartoon villain, one that just happens to (now) not like Trump. That's enough to some, but it shouldn't be enough for anyone.

    PSD'S RESIDENT BERNIE BROTHER

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Bloomberg is a cartoon villain, one that just happens to (now) not like Trump. That's enough to some, but it shouldn't be enough for anyone.

    The horror. He may as well pack it in, I can't imagine any campaign recovering from this.

    Unless, of course, the vast, overwhelming majority of Americans don't sympathize particularly strongly with heroin users - in which case this is nothing and will result in nothing. In that case, and only in that case, I'd suspect the monolith that is the Bloomberg campaign rolls on altogether unfettered.

    Wild.


  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    The horror. He may as well pack it in, I can't imagine any campaign recovering from this.

    Unless, of course, the vast, overwhelming majority of Americans don't sympathize particularly strongly with heroin users - in which case this is nothing and will result in nothing. In that case, and only in that case, I'd suspect the monolith that is the Bloomberg campaign rolls on altogether unfettered.

    Wild.
    I have also learned you cant under estimate the appeal of rich jack *****. They have so much $ that they can act like a jack *** all the time and get away with. People who are smucks but don't have the means to behave like shitheads all time really admire this. Trump is a bigger **** head though so Bloomberg loses this group once he goes against Trump
    Last edited by ewing; 02-24-2020 at 04:54 PM.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    The horror. He may as well pack it in, I can't imagine any campaign recovering from this.

    Unless, of course, the vast, overwhelming majority of Americans don't sympathize particularly strongly with heroin users - in which case this is nothing and will result in nothing. In that case, and only in that case, I'd suspect the monolith that is the Bloomberg campaign rolls on altogether unfettered.

    Wild.
    He should appeal to people like you. Not Democrats.

    This is far from the worst thing he's done, at all. It's exhibit #4,201,503 from the past few weeks (or his whole life, really) as to why he's a conservative ghoul and not anything else. We were just talking about the rust belt a lot in the other thread and this resonated because of that. I have sympathy for those whose lives have been ravaged by addiction. You don't. Cool.

    But a Democratic Presidential candidate should.

    EDIT: I was lectured in the 2020 thread about how Sanders can't win the rust belt. I think some sympathy and understanding about the opioid epidemic, let alone a genuine plan to help correct it, might help. Sanders has it.
    Last edited by ManRam; 02-24-2020 at 05:03 PM.
    PSD'S RESIDENT BERNIE BROTHER

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I have sympathy for those whose lives have been ravaged by addiction. You don't. Cool.
    Quite the contrary, I have immediate family members that have died within the last 3 years from issues relating to addiction.

    Not heroin, and not an overdose, but I'm certainly not unsympathetic toward such plight. I think while (mis)categorizing me as uncaring about the drug addled, you - I'll hazard a guess knowingly - kind of glossed over the larger point there.

    Whether you have sympathy or I have sympathy for "those whose lives have been ravaged by addiction" is academic. Most Americans, and to be more specific most purple Americans, don't. You can think that they should, and you wouldn't get any disagreement from me. But they don't.

    In your edit you then indirectly contrasted the opioid epidemic, which garners actual concern among Americans on a not-inconsequential scale, with an anecdote regarding heroin users overdosing on heroin, which doesn't. These two are not reasonably equated in the mind of the average voter. So you can, again, feel that they should be, and that's fine. But they aren't.


  15. #90
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    Empathy might need to be taught in schools because it sure has been MIA in our political system. The first reaction towards people in trouble/need is ridicule. Once again, Bloomberg, as Trump has in the past, is making the super-rich look bad.

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