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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Empathy might need to be taught in schools because it sure has been MIA in our political system. The first reaction towards people in trouble/need is ridicule. Once again, Bloomberg, as Trump has in the past, is making the super-rich look bad.
    Sure but again, the optics here are only negative to those who consider heroin addicts to be in need, in trouble, victims of circumstance, etc.

    Fair or not, the typical centrist purple stater is going to regard an average heroin addict as a victim of his/her own devices. Largely because said voter doesn't have the means to evaluate thousands of heroin addicts on a case by case basis in order to determine whose addictions were symptomatic of their upbringings, social status, neighborhoods, etc - and whose weren't.

    Most people still believe a person is the culmination of their own decisions. Some deem that victim blaming. The divide exists, no question - but the former still heavily outweighs the latter.


  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    Sure but again, the optics here are only negative to those who consider heroin addicts to be in need, in trouble, victims of circumstance, etc.

    Fair or not, the typical centrist purple stater is going to regard an average heroin addict as a victim of his/her own devices. Largely because said voter doesn't have the means to evaluate thousands of heroin addicts on a case by case basis in order to determine whose addictions were symptomatic of their upbringings, social status, neighborhoods, etc - and whose weren't.

    Most people still believe a person is the culmination of their own decisions. Some deem that victim blaming. The divide exists, no question - but the former still heavily outweighs the latter.
    Oh, I am not disagreeing with you on anything. It goes way beyond just saying the person brought it on themselves. We have kids getting lead poison in Flint, kids in cages on the border, people who we both can agree didn't bring their problems on themselves. We don't give a flying crap about others outside our immediate orbit. Thus, my statement about adding empathy to our school, in half gest. I imagine those who are super-rich, really need a dose of this.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Oh, I am not disagreeing with you on anything. It goes way beyond just saying the person brought it on themselves. We have kids getting lead poison in Flint, kids in cages on the border, people who we both can agree didn't bring their problems on themselves. We don't give a flying crap about others outside our immediate orbit. Thus, my statement about adding empathy to our school, in half gest. I imagine those who are super-rich, really need a dose of this.
    It's definitely true that the vast majority of billionaires have little to no ability to relate to the average American, no argument here on that.

    Altogether separately though, I think the average American does not conflate drug addiction with, to use one of your examples, people with contaminated drinking water in Flint.

    This is a subjective example, but a typical American I think understands to some degree the concept of the opioid epidemic, and has some sympathy for those affected. I don't believe the same sympathy is afforded by said generic voter to say, a heroin addict. We can disagree on whether or not it should be, there's arguments for either side of that, but to reiterate - the strong majority of Americans are not going to lump in the plight of non-prescribed drug addiction alongside the likes of Flint and/or the kids in cages.


  4. #94
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    Bloomberg is a puppet for China on top of all the other reasons to avoid him.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    The horror. He may as well pack it in, I can't imagine any campaign recovering from this.

    Unless, of course, the vast, overwhelming majority of Americans don't sympathize particularly strongly with heroin users - in which case this is nothing and will result in nothing. In that case, and only in that case, I'd suspect the monolith that is the Bloomberg campaign rolls on altogether unfettered.

    Wild.
    Yea this is just a regular Tuesday for Trump. Come get me when he's making fun of Gold Star families.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    It's definitely true that the vast majority of billionaires have little to no ability to relate to the average American, no argument here on that.

    Altogether separately though, I think the average American does not conflate drug addiction with, to use one of your examples, people with contaminated drinking water in Flint.

    This is a subjective example, but a typical American I think understands to some degree the concept of the opioid epidemic, and has some sympathy for those affected. I don't believe the same sympathy is afforded by said generic voter to say, a heroin addict. We can disagree on whether or not it should be, there's arguments for either side of that, but to reiterate - the strong majority of Americans are not going to lump in the plight of non-prescribed drug addiction alongside the likes of Flint and/or the kids in cages.
    Of course, they don't have the same attitude towards addicts as we do the kids in Flint. You are totally missing my point. We don't a sh+t about either groups of people enough to change their conditions or offer treatment or help. I will say we do treat the kids in Flint or in cages a little different, we send them our sympathy.

    There has been a 50% increase in kids needing special education in Flint. Know what have been cut over the last couple of years? Special education. And the condition still exists to inflict the same problems on the next set of kids coming up. Thus if the conditions still exist, we are either cutting or in the process of cutting special education what does that tell you? Maybe we should send more sympathies? It tells me people just don't give a crap about anyone outside our orbit.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    It tells me people just don't give a crap about anyone outside our orbit.
    This is both true and not true.

    I think most people are sympathetic to those in Flint, but certainly not to the same degree that they're concerned for their own family, their friends, their community - and I actually don't think that's particularly unreasonable. The world has a lot of problems, we can be sympathetic to those affected by all of them, but it's impossible for any one person to pay attention to, much less do something about, every single issue that faces another city, state, country, etc.

    Joe Voter in Nevada or Indiana or New Hampshire isn't in much of a position to do anything about the situation in Flint. Or Mexico. Or Africa. On and on and on.


  8. #98
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    I would still rather have Bloomberg as President (no matter how he got there) than Old Man Sanders -- that's a REAL threat to democracy. Have you noticed that socialists want to redistribute everyone's money, but they never volunteer to give up any of their own money?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestJimmy View Post
    I would still rather have Bloomberg as President (no matter how he got there) than Old Man Sanders -- that's a REAL threat to democracy. Have you noticed that socialists want to redistribute everyone's money, but they never volunteer to give up any of their own money?
    Have you ever noticed how people throw around the word socialist despite not having the first clue what it really means? Because I've noticed that. You can't name one single policy that he's put forward that is actually socialist. You can name plenty of policies that he's advocated that are a bit left of the rest of the Democratic party. But that's it.

    Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    There are two components of that definition that are important: 1) it involves the means of production and 2) that it should be owned or regulated by the community.

    The second part applies to just about everything the government does, by definition. That alone makes nothing socialist unless you're prepared to say that every rule the government has ever made is socialist. The first part is crucial. Bernie Sanders (nor any politician running) has advocated for anything resembling that.

    So in essence, please retire that tired trope. It's not doing a damn thing and really just elicits cockeyed looks from normal people who wonder what the hell is wrong with you.
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Have you ever noticed how people throw around the word socialist
    People like Bernie Sanders, for example.

    And I'm not discounting the rest of your post. It's just peculiar to me that you'd request he discard the "tired trope" of socialism which is, by his own (vigorous) admission, the core of Sanders' entire platform.


  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    This is both true and not true.

    I think most people are sympathetic to those in Flint, but certainly not to the same degree that they're concerned for their own family, their friends, their community - and I actually don't think that's particularly unreasonable. The world has a lot of problems, we can be sympathetic to those affected by all of them, but it's impossible for any one person to pay attention to, much less do something about, every single issue that faces another city, state, country, etc.

    Joe Voter in Nevada or Indiana or New Hampshire isn't in much of a position to do anything about the situation in Flint. Or Mexico. Or Africa. On and on and on.

    That is the worst explanation for not being able to solve the problems within our own country. If your kid can down with lead poisoning, you would be screaming bloody murder on how and why it happens and what is going to be done about it. All those questions will be directed at the government. If nothing was done about it and someone said what you just posted to you, what do you think would happen With you holding the crappy end of the stick?

    This is a problem with all of us. It isn't a problem until it comes to our door. I read numerous stories about people who were against medicare for all until their loved ones are ground up by the medical cost of having a devastating illness.

    Somewhere down the line, we have forgotten that we form governments to solve the "commonwealth" problems. Those things that are too big for one, or a community or even a state can solve on its own. One of the reasons we paid taxes is to support the welfare of the general public. Wouldn't you add viable drinking water to the general welfare of people list?

    I would think that a country that was able to go to the moon, would be able to change out the piping system in Flint and providing decent water to its citizens. But we don't give a crap about it to even push our elected officials to do something about it.

    So whatever the reason, which always is declared reasonable, we don't give to sh-t about each other problems. No wonder people think government doesn't work. We forgot why people form governments.
    Last edited by WES445; 02-25-2020 at 02:35 PM.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    That is the worst explanation for not being able to solve the problems within our own country. If your kid can down with lead poisoning, you would be screaming bloody murder on how and why it happens and what is going to be done about it. All those questions will be directed at the government. If nothing was done about it and someone said what you just posted to you, what do you think would happen With you holding the crappy end of the stick?

    This is a problem with all of us. It isn't a problem until it comes to our door. I read numerous stories about people who were against medicare for all until their loved ones are ground up by the medical cost of having a devastating illness.

    Somewhere down the line, we have forgotten that we form governments to solve the "commonwealth" problems. Those things that are too big for one, or a community or even a state can solve on its own. One of the reasons we paid taxes is to support the welfare of the general public. Wouldn't you add viable drinking water to the general welfare of people list?

    I would think that a country that was able to go to the moon, would be able to change out the piping system in Flint and providing decent water to its citizens. But we don't give a crap about it to even push our elected officials to do something about it.

    So whatever the reason, which always is declared reasonable, we don't give to sh-t about each other problems. No wonder people think government doesn't work. We forgot why people form governments.
    I agree with some of this, save for the cliched man on the moon argument that virtually everyone uses for virtually everything. Rarely if ever does it have anything even remotely to do with whatever they're going on about at the time.

    That said - I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that your qualm is a bit more deeply rooted within the essence of human nature than the US government.


  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestJimmy View Post
    I would still rather have Bloomberg as President (no matter how he got there) than Old Man Sanders -- that's a REAL threat to democracy. Have you noticed that socialists want to redistribute everyone's money, but they never volunteer to give up any of their own money?
    No, feel free to tell us all about it and while you are at it justify the Banking bailout that the bankers got and the bonus they gave themselves afterward with the taxpayers' money they got. You know, Bloomberg's friends. A bit of socialism to the wealthy
    Last edited by WES445; 02-25-2020 at 02:47 PM.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    No, feel free to tell us all about it and while you are at it justify the Banking bailout
    FWIW, this exact stuff is how the left lost the middle. This is what got us Trump.


  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    I agree with some of this, save for the cliched man on the moon argument that virtually everyone uses for virtually everything. Rarely if ever does it have anything even remotely to do with whatever they're going on about at the time.

    That said - I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that your qualm is a bit more deeply rooted within the essence of human nature than the US government.
    LOLOLOL. I was thinking along those lines when Uncle Sam intended to send me to Vietnam. Well, anyway I gratefully none of my kids served in the military. The country isn't worth dying for.

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