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  1. #31
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    Then if you move Randle, Payton and others then y'all have to find teams where they can fit on especially if you trying to trade them especially on either Draft Day or trying to do sign and trades this summer in free agency

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Then if you move Randle, Payton and others then y'all have to find teams where they can fit on especially if you trying to trade them especially on either Draft Day or trying to do sign and trades this summer in free agency
    that's the issue, though Payton is a team option, but Randle will be hard to move.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    it's kinda dangerous to have ball dominant players around youngsters if they are not part of the future. Sometimes you just gotta purge a roster and give the young guys a chance.

    Remember Monta with Curry? Curry exploded after they traded Ellis going from 14.7ppg to 22.9. And this was Ellis who was dropping 25ppg in an era where scoring was not what it is today. but he didn't really play winning ball and and Curry needed more reign.

    Then they moved Lee and Dray exploded.

    Maybe that's an extreme example but it's part of the reason I didn't like Morris & Randle. They just control the ball too much, Payton too but at least Payton is more of a willing passer. Randle just plays a very selfish brand of ball.

    RJ may not be worthy yet of building a roster around him but at the same time what are we gaining from having Randle & Payton controlling the ball so much? and before that it was Morris. As hard as I want to try I could never envision any of those guys as long term pieces. even if you like Payton he's nothing more then a backup and we shouldn't prioritize a backup PG at this point obviously.
    Yeah, but you have to have the kind of guys that can step up. Just giving free reign to young players doesnít always help. RJ is nothing like Curry was at that time. It was only injury that slowed Curry down that year. He was a borderline star already, was from day one

    Iíd say build a real roster, donít treat/expect RJ to be ďthe manĒ. If he is, heíll show it. Need multiple guys anyway
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 02-16-2020 at 09:42 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Yeah, but you have to have the kind of guys that can step up. Just giving free reign to young players doesnít always help. RJ is nothing like Curry was at that time. It was only injury that slowed Curry down that year. He was a borderline star already

    Iíd say build a real roster, donít treat/expect RJ to be ďthe manĒ. If he is, heíll show it. Need multiple guys anyway
    at the end of the day we are one of the worst teams in the NBA anyway so we have nothing to lose.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    at the end of the day we are one of the worst teams in the NBA anyway so we have nothing to lose.
    We do if we are slowing his development further. Need real players here. Dont shy away from getting them. Have to make sense though. Going total tank, giving him zero to work with wonít help

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    it's kinda dangerous to have ball dominant players around youngsters if they are not part of the future. Sometimes you just gotta purge a roster and give the young guys a chance.

    Remember Monta with Curry? Curry exploded after they traded Ellis going from 14.7ppg to 22.9. And this was Ellis who was dropping 25ppg in an era where scoring was not what it is today. but he didn't really play winning ball and and Curry needed more reign.

    Then they moved Lee and Dray exploded.

    Maybe that's an extreme example but it's part of the reason I didn't like Morris & Randle. They just control the ball too much, Payton too but at least Payton is more of a willing passer. Randle just plays a very selfish brand of ball.

    RJ may not be worthy yet of building a roster around him but at the same time what are we gaining from having Randle & Payton controlling the ball so much? and before that it was Morris. As hard as I want to try I could never envision any of those guys as long term pieces. even if you like Payton he's nothing more then a backup and we shouldn't prioritize a backup PG at this point obviously.
    Steph played 2 full seasons with Monta before they shipped him out though. It was clear by then that Steph was ready to takeover. They probably could have done it earlier, but the young guys need to prove they are worthy before you start doing that. Luka was so good they cancelled DSJ right off the bat. But RJ needs to prove that he's worthy of shipping out the guys who are currently better and the "leaders" of the team. Regardless of how YOU feel about them, they are the alpha's right now, the best and most consistent players we have and the defacto leaders of this bad team and the young guys are doing nothing to change that with their play. They gotta show us something before we hand them the keys. That's just the way it works and the way it should work.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    We do if we are slowing his development further. Need real players here. Dont shy away from getting them. Have to make sense though. Going total tank, giving him zero to work with wonít help
    for sure... i've been for bringing real players in here every year. Just think we pick the wrong ones.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    at the end of the day we are one of the worst teams in the NBA anyway so we have nothing to lose.
    I think we disagree that simply handing young guys the keys when they aren't ready and may never be ready is a risk-free exercise. One could easily argue the worst thing for Andrew Wiggins career was too much freedom and too much responsibility when he didn't earn it and wasn't worthy of it.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    I think we disagree that simply handing young guys the keys when they aren't ready and may never be ready is a risk-free exercise. One could easily argue the worst thing for Andrew Wiggins career was too much freedom and too much responsibility when he didn't earn it and wasn't worthy of it.
    not what i'm saying, I don't think playing guys 30mpg is the way to develop, I think we've hurt guys like THJR & Knox with that approach. at the same time, I don't think surrounding them with ball hogs is either, definitely a balance of surrounding them with guys that play the right way and will make the game easier for them.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    not what i'm saying, I don't think playing guys 30mpg is the way to develop, I think we've hurt guys like THJR & Knox with that approach. at the same time, I don't think surrounding them with ball hogs is either, definitely a balance of surrounding them with guys that play the right way and will make the game easier for them.
    I donít think Morris hurt the team at all. I think the guys looked up to him, and saw how he came to work every day, and how he played every night. In the end of the day, good players always help

    If contenders all wanted him, Iím sure he was fine for us too. Randle was worth a shot, but itís clear heís not an answer

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    not what i'm saying, I don't think playing guys 30mpg is the way to develop, I think we've hurt guys like THJR & Knox with that approach. at the same time, I don't think surrounding them with ball hogs is either, definitely a balance of surrounding them with guys that play the right way and will make the game easier for them.
    Fair enough - I don't disagree. I understand the Randle experiment. But it's time to move on from that. I think next year is a good time for us to strike a balance and get support pieces that actually compliment RJ and Mitch and see if they have got the goods. Ideally, we swing a trade for a guy who fits but can also shoulder the load so you aren't putting too much on RJ too soon. Someone like Hield who can still drop 20 for us while complimenting RJ and playing off the ball a bunch. I do like your boy Bertans as well but I don't see him as a guy who carries a load as much as feeds off others.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    I donít think Morris hurt the team at all. I think the guys looked up to him, and saw how he came to work every day, and how he played every night. In the end of the day, good players always help

    If contenders all wanted him, Iím sure he was fine for us too. Randle was worth a shot, but itís clear heís not an answer
    i def think guys looked up to him, but guys looked up to Melo too and he wasn't exactly the easiest to play with. not sure Morris looking guys off constantly helped the on court product and instilled confidence in the young guys.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Fair enough - I don't disagree. I understand the Randle experiment. But it's time to move on from that. I think next year is a good time for us to strike a balance and get support pieces that actually compliment RJ and Mitch and see if they have got the goods. Ideally, we swing a trade for a guy who fits but can also shoulder the load so you aren't putting too much on RJ too soon. Someone like Hield who can still drop 20 for us while complimenting RJ and playing off the ball a bunch. I do like your boy Bertans as well but I don't see him as a guy who carries a load as much as feeds off others.
    I think Hield fits the Knicks more than Bertans does but in order for that to happen...y'all would have to give up Randle, Payton, draft pick and probably DSJ especially since in Sacramento Hield is on a max deal

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    I think Hield fits the Knicks more than Bertans does but in order for that to happen...y'all would have to give up Randle, Payton, draft pick and probably DSJ especially since in Sacramento Hield is on a max deal
    Hield is making 24.4 next year. Plenty of ways to make that happen. Plus we can absorb the difference with cap space anyways. Also have Portisí contract. I think between players, short contracts, picks, we could definitely match up with them nicely

    Plus after they extend Bogs, going to be looking at Fox coming up next. Sure they are going to be trying to clear the books
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 02-16-2020 at 12:26 PM.

  15. #45
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    I will say if there's anyone that would benefit from 30mpg it's Mitch, he just needs reps. He hasn't played nearly as much ball as most prospects his age.

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