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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Probably is your opinion. Before this article, thereís no way you would feel that way. MLB could have easily paid The Athletic off to write that nonsense.
    Really? You think Ken Rosenthal is easily bought? You think he'd risk his reputation, his legacy as a newsman, for a few bucks?

    Why would MLB conspire to put this on one guy while their own investigation blamed more than just Beltran? You complain about this story not making sense (based on literally nothing but your love for Beltran) but then you suggest, unironically, that MLB paid off a reporter? How do you square that in your head?

    Which six former players? If not one of them can attach their name to this, then I donít believe it sorry.
    You're obviously too emotionally invested in Beltran's legacy to believe he could possibly be the bully he's portrayed as in the story, but here's a good article from fivethirtyeight on the use of anonymous sources: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...named-sources/

    Incidentally, one of its examples is of "six West Wing aides" talking to the Times about Jared Kushner:

    " Six people are less likely to be wrong than one ó and this also indicates that the reporter was cautious and diligent enough to seek confirmation with more than one person. "

    You're not even suggesting here that the six people are wrong, you're actually saying Ken Rosenthal made the story up. Which means you're not rational enough to discuss this with, so this isn't really even for you, but the people who might be following along.

    The supposed clubhouse intimidation doesnít extend through retirement. Unless you think Beltran would hire a hit-man for anyone that speaks out against him?
    Did you hear Jessica Mendoza's comments about Mike Friars speaking out in the original article (also from The Athletic, by the way)? She criticized him for going public instead of keeping it in-house. She actually believes that the biggest cheating scandal maybe ever in baseball history should not have been made public. Do you really think she's an outlier? The fear of speaking up and potential being ostracized is real.

    But okay, none of that is real because you love Beltran and don't want to admit he's a cheating scumbag.

  2. #77
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    Details Emerge About Beltranís Role in 2017 Astrosí Clubhouse Sign Stealing Scheme

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    Really? You think Ken Rosenthal is easily bought? You think he'd risk his reputation, his legacy as a newsman, for a few bucks?

    Why would MLB conspire to put this on one guy while their own investigation blamed more than just Beltran? You complain about this story not making sense (based on literally nothing but your love for Beltran) but then you suggest, unironically, that MLB paid off a reporter? How do you square that in your head?
    Iím not targeting Rosenthal personally. But his sources could have been bought off for this, absolutely. Who are they? We donít know. Anonymous sources are the only people today in this day and age that are able to dodge being criticized by social media.


    You're obviously too emotionally invested in Beltran's legacy to believe he could possibly be the bully he's portrayed as in the story, but here's a good article from fivethirtyeight on the use of anonymous sources: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...named-sources/

    Incidentally, one of its examples is of "six West Wing aides" talking to the Times about Jared Kushner:

    " Six people are less likely to be wrong than one ó and this also indicates that the reporter was cautious and diligent enough to seek confirmation with more than one person. "

    You're not even suggesting here that the six people are wrong, you're actually saying Ken Rosenthal made the story up. Which means you're not rational enough to discuss this with, so this isn't really even for you, but the people who might be following along.
    Less likely to be wrong doesnít mean they arenít wrong. When did I say the entire story is made-up? I have little doubt that Beltran was one of the main drivers of the cheating scandal. But the players bought into it and WANTED to cheat. The ones that didnít, werenít FORCED to because not all of them did. Thatís the part of the story thatís not believable.

    Altuve, Reddick, and Tony Kemp did not want to participate with the trash can banging during their ABs (which is verified through video/stats). Did they help when their teammates werenít hitting? Who knows? But there were obviously no repercussions for those guys not buying in. You really think Beltran threatened current superstar Jose Altuve to do this or else? GTFO. This has nothing to do with me liking Beltran.


    Did you hear Jessica Mendoza's comments about Mike Friars speaking out in the original article (also from The Athletic, by the way)? She criticized him for going public instead of keeping it in-house. She actually believes that the biggest cheating scandal maybe ever in baseball history should not have been made public. Do you really think she's an outlier? The fear of speaking up and potential being ostracized is real.

    But okay, none of that is real because you love Beltran and don't want to admit he's a cheating scumbag.
    Her comments were ill-advised. But Fiers could have quietly went to MLB and let them investigate while he was a member of the Astros if he had such a problem with it. Thatís why this is so messy. Fiers is just as bad as the rest of them.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 02-15-2020 at 08:17 PM.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Iím not targeting Rosenthal personally. But his sources could have been bought off for this, absolutely. Who are they? We donít know. Anonymous sources are the only people today in this day and age that are able to dodge being criticized by social media.
    So you think it's more plausible that MLB bribed players to lie than it is that Beltran was kind of a bully? ****ing seriously? That's insane. Literally insane.

    Anonymous sources have always been a thing. Always. It's not about dodging criticism, it's about dodging **** like you're doing now: accusing them of literally accepting bribes to make up stories about their team.

    Less likely to be wrong doesnít mean they arenít wrong. When did I say the entire story is made-up? I have little doubt that Beltran was one of the main drivers of the cheating scandal. But the players bought into it and WANTED to cheat. The ones that didnít, werenít FORCED to because not all of them did. Thatís the part of the story thatís not believable.
    It's plenty believable. You weren't there, these guys were. I take their word over your wish-thinking.

    Altuve, Reddick, and Tony Kemp did not want to participate with the trash can banging during their ABs (which is verified through video/stats). Did they help when their teammates werenít hitting? Who knows? But there were obviously no repercussions for those guys not buying in. You really think Beltran threatened current superstar Jose Altuve to do this or else? GTFO. This has nothing to do with me liking Beltran.
    Jesus Christ, it is absolutely disproven by the video evidence. Correa said that during an interview and you're simply choosing to believe him. The trash can is heard in his ABs as well, albeit in fewer than anyone else's on the team, and we know he used a buzzer. This is ALL about you not wanting to believe your boy could have made it difficult for players to speak out. I mean, stats? Dude, Altuve hits over 100 points higher at home.

    And for the record, choosing to not use the system personally is not the same as saying NO ONE should use the system, which is what Brian McCann did. That's very hard for young players especially. Just ask Joe Musgrove:

    ďI was in my first year, man,Ē Musgrove told the MLB Network. ďAlong with (Alex) Bregman and a lot of those guys, and in your first year in the big leagues youíre around guys like Beltran and McCann, some big names. And Iím not going to be the pitcher to walk up and tell íem to knock it off.Ē

    Her comments were ill-advised. But Fiers could have quietly went to MLB and let them investigate while he was a member of the Astros if he had such a problem with it. Thatís why this is so messy. Fiers is just as bad as the rest of them.
    It goes to show how difficult it would have been to speak up while on the team. Even Fiers, who blew the lid off of it, had to wait until he was out of Houston. Anyway, he also knew that "quietly going to the MLB" wasn't going to accomplish anything. Many teams had complained about the Astros, most notably the Yankees and the Dodgers in the playoffs, and MLB never lifted a finger.

    Her comments were not just "ill-advised" (whatever that's even supposed to mean) they were representative of the clubhouse culture.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Interesting you said that. Ever read Moneyball, where Billy Bean talking about what it was like when, for the first time, he was competing with players who were as good or better than he was? That's exactly what it's like for these rookies. Then there's the issue of security. Remember, unlike their older teammates, they don't have guaranteed long-term contracts. They know they're just one slump or one injury away from being displaced, Then there's the initiation. Some teams have rituals where rookies have to carry a veteran's bags for the season. Well, that rookie bag carrier was once the Alpha of all Alpha dogs. And in a year or two he just might be once again. It's all a matter of perspective.

    But for the time being, he'll likely try to be a good soldier.
    Lol, weíre talking about Springer, Altuve, Gurriel, McCann...all stars and hardly rookies. Then we have Bregman and Correa who are young superstars

    Those 6 guys or 66% of the starting lineup werenít concerned about a slump ending their career.

    Not to mention Verlander and Keuchel, both stars, could have easily stepped up. Bunch of other mature pitchers like Sipp, Gregerson, Morton, Liriano, Clippard could have stepped up.

    Sorry, Iím just not buying it. The team cheated, maybe a few guys like JD might be persuaded to cheat and follow everyone else

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    No one works for free. But The Athletic's report was well detailed and well referenced. The reporting and writing was believable.
    Who were the references again? Because I didnít see anything worthy especially for the outlandish claims, but itís been a few days since I read that article twice

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    Lol, weíre talking about Springer, Altuve, Gurriel, McCann...all stars and hardly rookies. Then we have Bregman and Correa who are young superstars

    Those 6 guys or 66% of the starting lineup werenít concerned about a slump ending their career.

    Not to mention Verlander and Keuchel, both stars, could have easily stepped up. Bunch of other mature pitchers like Sipp, Gregerson, Morton, Liriano, Clippard could have stepped up.

    Sorry, Iím just not buying it. The team cheated, maybe a few guys like JD might be persuaded to cheat and follow everyone else
    No one's saying Beltran made everyone cheat. The claim being made is that he shut down dissent (McCann wanted the cheating stopped, for example) and was too intimidating for younger or less- established guys to speak up. Obviously the key players were on board willingly, and maybe some guys didn't want to do it. The point was that the practice was allowed no matter what some players said, thanks in large part to Beltran.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    Lol, weíre talking about Springer, Altuve, Gurriel, McCann...all stars and hardly rookies. Then we have Bregman and Correa who are young superstars

    Those 6 guys or 66% of the starting lineup werenít concerned about a slump ending their career.

    Not to mention Verlander and Keuchel, both stars, could have easily stepped up. Bunch of other mature pitchers like Sipp, Gregerson, Morton, Liriano, Clippard could have stepped up.

    Sorry, Iím just not buying it. The team cheated, maybe a few guys like JD might be persuaded to cheat and follow everyone else
    Yeah. Those guys had similar pull with Beltran. I was referring to younger players who wouldve been more inclined to just follow the guys at chowtime. Obviously there's a lot of grey are here. Obviously Beltran didnt pursuade 24 other guys to cheat. Obviously he doesnt deserve to be scapegoated as the face of the scandal. But i have no problem believing he used his influence to help ensure everyone toed the team line either.

  8. #83
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Obviously this didn't start and end with the Astros and Red Sox.

  10. #85
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    https://www.mlb.com/video/j-d-davis-on-analytics-mets

    Kinda funny watching this video now (start at 1:00) after what we know lol

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    https://www.mlb.com/video/j-d-davis-on-analytics-mets

    Kinda funny watching this video now (start at 1:00) after what we know lol
    Ok i'm curious. Two browsers on two laptops will not play it. What did he end up saying?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mookiewilson View Post
    Ok i'm curious. Two browsers on two laptops will not play it. What did he end up saying?
    Not working on my iPad either

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    Not working on my iPad either
    Not my ancient iPhone.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    No you can't. The Athletic were the ones to break this story in the first place. They're also a subscription service, and less reliant on clicks than some other news sites. Their stake in this is their credibility, not their ad rates.

    Meanwhile, Correa has been cheating the game for at least three years. His credibility and The Athletic's are not equal.
    The Athletic also wants subscriptions, you know, to generate revenue.

    And the story was rumored prior to them writing the story, they just put all the pieces together.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Not my ancient iPhone.
    You need the jPhone

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