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Thread: Coronavirus

  1. #2266
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    How can I not know what Iím talking about when Iím Not saying anything, Iím asking questions...

    Iím trying to figure out the context for how you are so certain these people couldnít possibly have died of Covid. You suggested the county doctor lied, and you suggested the lying was because they get more funding if itís a Covid death. Well who gets that increased funding?
    Whoever is taking care of the patient is who gets paid by insurance.

    Things in medicine aren't so black and white. Let's say a 90 year old hospice patient with a history of strokes gets covid, develops no symptoms, then dies of a stroke. Did the covid exacerbate his clotting issues and cause the stroke which killed him? Did he just die of a stroke and happen to have covid when he did?

    Doctors are humans, sometimes humans are motivated to lean one way or another in hard to call situations. Catman is just pointing this out.

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  2. #2267
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    How can I not know what Iím talking about when Iím Not saying anything, Iím asking questions...

    Iím trying to figure out the context for how you are so certain these people couldnít possibly have died of Covid. You suggested the county doctor lied, and you suggested the lying was because they get more funding if itís a Covid death. Well who gets that increased funding?
    Your best strategy here would be to say nothing. You appear to be lacking any usable knowledge about medicine. I'm sure you are very competent in your chosen field, but you are an idiot when it comes to the medical profession.
    I never said the county coroner "lied", merely that they said it was a Covid death. You are attempting to put words in my mouth and appear to be an idiot.
    Just stop.

  3. 06-13-2020, 02:23 PM
    Reason
    Stop with the insults

  4. #2268
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Your best strategy here would be to say nothing.
    This statement actually applies quite well to both you and Jack the janitor. Hide behind the loose term "hospital worker" and pretend like you're some sort of virus experts with inside knowledge, while sharing nothing more than unsubstantiated hunches with little to no backing (and then get all mouthy when someone questions you, which shows you expect everyone to simply take what you say at face value).

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  5. 06-13-2020, 02:43 PM
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    Stop with the insults

  6. #2269
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Your best strategy here would be to say nothing. You appear to be lacking any usable knowledge about medicine. I'm sure you are very competent in your chosen field, but you are an idiot when it comes to the medical profession.
    I never said the county coroner "lied", merely that they said it was a Covid death. You are attempting to put words in my mouth and appear to be an idiot.
    Just stop.
    I havenít stated any knowledge about medicine so how can you have come to that determination? Iíve asked questions, which is generally what one does when they want more information.

    I apologize, he didnít lie, he only changed the official cause of death from what the initial doctor said to Covid. You strongly insinuated itís because someone (they) get more money by doing so. Well, who is the ďtheyĒ that gets more money? The county doctor?

  7. #2270
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Whoever is taking care of the patient is who gets paid by insurance.

    Things in medicine aren't so black and white. Let's say a 90 year old hospice patient with a history of strokes gets covid, develops no symptoms, then dies of a stroke. Did the covid exacerbate his clotting issues and cause the stroke which killed him? Did he just die of a stroke and happen to have covid when he did?

    Doctors are humans, sometimes humans are motivated to lean one way or another in hard to call situations. Catman is just pointing this out.
    Now weíre getting somewhere. So whoever is taking care of the patient is who gets the insurance payout. OK, but as Catman said, the doctor taking care of the patient listed the cause of death as not Covid, it was the county doctor who changed it. So the county doctor changed the official cause of death so the initial doctor who didnít think it was Covid could get more money?

  8. #2271
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Please stop the nonsense questions. You are past annoying me. You are getting really tiring. You don't seem to have any idea what you are talking about and want to look smart.
    Just stop.
    I donít agree with you but appreciated this post


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    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  9. #2272
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    You can eat in your car it's ok

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    One More Time

  10. #2273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Rhody View Post
    You can eat in your car it's ok

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    I was face-palming your attempt at equating being smart and respectful about doing ones best not to spread a super contagious, deadly virus with being afraid. Way too many people have this same selfish, self-congratulatory outlook on how they feel about COVID-19 and I'm sick of hearing it.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  11. #2274
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I donít agree with you but appreciated this post
    You would

  12. #2275
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Now weíre getting somewhere. So whoever is taking care of the patient is who gets the insurance payout. OK, but as Catman said, the doctor taking care of the patient listed the cause of death as not Covid, it was the county doctor who changed it. So the county doctor changed the official cause of death so the initial doctor who didnít think it was Covid could get more money?
    The insurance payout goes to whatever entity is caring for the patient, sometimes major chains like Kaiser who may very well have multiple levels of decision making as well as multiple levels of payouts.

    I dont know this specific case so I cant say what motivated anyone in this case. Financial incentive is just one example of what could motivate someone to skew numbers. Theres plenty other reasons, especially politics.

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    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  13. #2276
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    The insurance payout goes to whatever entity is caring for the patient, sometimes major chains like Kaiser who may very well have multiple levels of decision making as well as multiple levels of payouts.

    I dont know this specific case so I cant say what motivated anyone in this case. Financial incentive is just one example of what could motivate someone to skew numbers. Theres plenty other reasons, especially politics.
    Well Iím trying to figure out how the county doctor is receiving compensation for changing the cause of death, but Catman got pissy at someone not deigning to take his word as gospel, so I guess weíll never know.

  14. #2277
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    Pissy? Not yet, but I certainly can be. Let me explain what happened so you can better understand the situation.
    Patients at the nursing home where I have been a staff nurse for 10 years caught the virus. Many had pre-existing conditions that would have caused their deaths within a couple of months regardless of their Covid status. As I said, Covid did not do them any good, but our facility medical director determined that it was not the primary cause of death. On the death certificate, he listed Covid among the contributing factors. The county coroner determined, without examination of the patients (by the way, an autopsy would not have determined the precise cause of death, just what systems were affected by illnesses, which were many in these people), that the primary cause of death was Covid.
    I worked with these patients, some for the 10 years I've been at my current position, for as long as they have been in the facility and knew their conditions well. Most of them were not healthy, some with chronic lung conditions, some with diabetes, some with chronic heart conditions, some with chronic kidney problems, some with all 4, others with a combination of the 4, but all with at least 1. 1 resident had a stroke a month or so prior to being exposed to Covid and her death was listed as Covid. Covid did not do any of the residents any good, but was not the primary cause of at least 5 of the residents listed as Covid deaths officially.
    By the way, I still have some residual problems from my bout with Covid. Hopefully, they will resolve completely, but I have no guarantees that they will.
    Last edited by catman; 06-14-2020 at 12:36 AM.

  15. #2278
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well Iím trying to figure out how the county doctor is receiving compensation for changing the cause of death, but Catman got pissy at someone not deigning to take his word as gospel, so I guess weíll never know.
    Something is getting mixed up here. Catman mentioned diff doctors putting different diagnosis. This is a seperate point he is making.

    Earlier it was mentioned that insurance is paying more for covid cases, and so I made the point that this should make us expect numbers to skew higher for covid. But I never meant that as an explanation to what catman said above, I just meant it as a seperate point illustrating how numbers may be boosted.

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  16. #2279
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    Pissy? Not yet, but I certainly can be. Let me explain what happened so you can better understand the situation.
    Patients at the nursing home where I have been a staff nurse for 10 years caught the virus. Many had pre-existing conditions that would have caused their deaths within a couple of months regardless of their Covid status. As I said, Covid did not do them any good, but our facility medical director determined that it was not the primary cause of death. On the death certificate, he listed Covid among the contributing factors. The county coroner determined, without examination of the patients (by the way, an autopsy would not have determined the precise cause of death, just what systems were affected by illnesses, which were many in these people), that the primary cause of death was Covid.
    I worked with these patients, some for the 10 years I've been at my current position, for as long as they have been in the facility and knew their conditions well. Most of them were not healthy, some with chronic lung conditions, some with diabetes, some with chronic heart conditions, some with chronic kidney problems, some with all 4, others with a combination of the 4, but all with at least 1. 1 resident had a stroke a month or so prior to being exposed to Covid and her death was listed as Covid. Covid did not do any of the residents any good, but was not the primary cause of at least 5 of the residents listed as Covid deaths officially.
    By the way, I still have some residual problems from my bout with Covid. Hopefully, they will resolve completely, but I have no guarantees that they will.
    Perhaps Iím not understanding the science here, because it seems youíre saying these people would have likely lived months longer than they did once they contracted Covid. So how could Covid not be the primary cause of death if the underlying condition would not have killed them for months? To me that seems like saying someone who has stage 4 cancer and is given a month to live gets hit by a bus but you determine the bus didnít kill them because they were a dead man walking anyway.

    Even if we assume you are correct and Covid was only a contributor to their deaths and not the primary cause, is that much better? It doesnít sound any better to say ďCovid didnít kill them it just heavily contributed to their deathsĒ! Still seems pretty dangerous and lethal to me.

  17. #2280
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Something is getting mixed up here. Catman mentioned diff doctors putting different diagnosis. This is a seperate point he is making.

    Earlier it was mentioned that insurance is paying more for covid cases, and so I made the point that this should make us expect numbers to skew higher for covid. But I never meant that as an explanation to what catman said above, I just meant it as a seperate point illustrating how numbers may be boosted.
    Sure, itís possible. A lot of things are possible. But itís a huge chasm to leap to get from itís possible to itís happening with enough frequency to effect the overall numbers.

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