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Thread: Coronavirus

  1. #2071
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I'm starting with psd.

    One step at a time, lol

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    Try educating yourself; it is obviously needed.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  2. #2072
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    lol, I'm just curious to hear an opposing opinion from someone like catman and flips, because they are professionals, so they are looking at it from a similar perspective as me.

    Most you guys are approaching it from such a diff place than me. You started with a sensationalized news story and then filled in the blanks. Professionals are trained to start with evidence, and then fill in the blanks.

    It's just a completely diff approach.


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    Don't ****ing make an appeal to authority using me. I want no part of what you are saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  3. #2073
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Don't ****ing make an appeal to authority using me. I want no part of what you are saying.
    I'm not appealing to authority, I'm just curious what your reasoning is for wanting no part in that. Is it based in data, or headlines?

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  4. #2074
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Don't ****ing make an appeal to authority using me. I want no part of what you are saying.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  5. #2075
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    I feel like there is such a moral and ethical dilemma here. I look at it through the lens of my own family.

    I have a grandma in her low 80s. She lives in assisted care. I have a dad in his early 50s. He had a goal of retiring by 70 that he isn't hopeful of anymore. And he does physical work that takes a toll on his body. My brother works at a small family owned restaurant to put himself through med school.

    If we pull out of the coronavirus restrictions there's a good chance my grandma dies. If we extend the restrictions to minimize the chance of that, my dad's quality of life probably goes down. If my brother works at one of the small businesses that can't open back up if the restrictions go on too long his entire world could be shaken upside down.

    I have no idea how anyone can balance these. Whenever I turn on the news and think about the health vs economy debate I feel like I'm trying to decide between my grandma dying or my brother having wasted thousands on a degree he won't be able to afford to finish and my dad not retiring. How am I supposed to weigh the length of my grandma's life vs the quality if my dad's and brother's? My grandma's lived a long life but she doesn't deserve to have it cut short because of money. But my brother and dad have pretty modest goals of putting themselves through school and getting to retire at some point that they deserve to have the chance to live out too.

    Fortunately, I have an accounting job at a beer company still open. With how the market crashed it probably delays my ability to buy a house a year or two because I was trying to use stock to help that. I'm going to have to take a pay cut too because this is hurting our annual bonus metrics too. Overall though, I think I'm pretty "unaffected" by this over the long haul of my life. And I say that cautiously because anything can happen.

    But not everyone is so lucky. The longer this goes on, the more businesses have to close. That shatters some peoples dreams that they spent their lives chasing. When it happens in bulk that's millions of jobs lost that we won't be able to replace. And those millions of jobs support families with young kids who might then be in a situation where they can never realize their potential because they're held back by financial hardship. There are people who were planning to live off 401k in retirement that won't be able to now because of the market losses that will get exaggerated the longer this goes on.

    The numbers show that the overwhelming majority of people we lose will be elderly and/or preexisting condition. We can't just let those people die on the streets. But the alternative is that we put younger generations through decades of hardship and diminished quality of life to stop it. I just have no idea how anyone can live with either of those consequences.


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  6. #2076
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    ^^solid post

    The issue is mainly with our politics. I think everyone understands that we gonna take losses on both ends, virus and economy. But our govt is in such a gridlock, no ones on the same page. Theyre just maximizing the losses.

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  7. #2077
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    So in china Disneyland opened and they're gonna do temperature screening for everyone.

    International airports in america are not even doing this, yet god ****in damn disneyland is doing it!

    lol, wtf!

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  8. #2078
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    ^^solid post

    The issue is mainly with our politics. I think everyone understands that we gonna take losses on both ends, virus and economy. But our govt is in such a gridlock, no ones on the same page. Theyre just maximizing the losses.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Yeah I kind of look at on both extremes...

    If shutting down the entire economy for months would save a single life, we'd obviously never consider it. Not at all worth it to shut down and save one person. No way that's best for society.

    If not shutting down the economy for months would cost us 300 million people we'd obviously shut it down. No economic hardship equals essentially the whole population being wiped out.

    The reality is things aren't on the extremes. The longer we shut down, the more lives we save but the further we diminish quality of life for people still living. We have to find some balance of the two of them and instead of coming together and trying to weigh that out we have politicians trying to politicize it. It's disgusting.


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  9. #2079
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    So in china Disneyland opened and they're gonna do temperature screening for everyone.

    International airports in america are not even doing this, yet god ****in damn disneyland is doing it!

    lol, wtf!

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    temperature screenings are the biggest misunderstanding and uselessness of a thing that there is... Temp screening only makes things worse because now all of these people are gonna have a sense of safeness not realizing people carry the disease without symptoms and once you let in thousands and a few have it without symptoms its GG.... per usual you dont have a clue.

  10. #2080
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    Shtandard

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  11. #2081
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    i mean testing for temps would be amazing and helpful if this virus didnt have people that didnt show symptoms and this virus could only be passed by people that show symptoms... but since this isnt the case temp testing will only make people lower their guards just to go out and have a good time because they dont understand or care how this works.

    Scientist nasty will now just say he knows this and he was just trying to show that china is doing something the US isnt just so he can say omg how dare the US even though doing this is actually stupid to a degree. We shouldnt have any type of mass openings period... testing for temps will only make people feel safer and will lead to the already dumb masses being even more dumb and ignorant thinking they dont have to wear masks or they can shake hands/hug/not wash their hands because nobody had a temp coming in.
    Last edited by More-Than-Most; 05-14-2020 at 12:15 AM.

  12. #2082
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    temperature screenings are the biggest misunderstanding and uselessness of a thing that there is... Temp screening only makes things worse because now all of these people are gonna have a sense of safeness not realizing people carry the disease without symptoms and once you let in thousands and a few have it without symptoms its GG.... per usual you dont have a clue.
    I mean, if you just assume that everyone is a moron not capable of thinking things through then it really doesn't matter what the plan is, it's gonna fail. The only way through this is to thoroughly think things through, and then make extensive efforts to educate people and encourage compliance.

    Temperature screening is not foolproof. As you say, people can be asymptomatic. But there are probably a lot of people who got temperatures that would trip these thresholds but considered themselves asymptomatic. The temperature check can catch some of those.

    That person who tripped the temperature check would hopefully go get tested and isolate themselves until they have results. It's not foolproof, but in this scenario you stopped them from entering where they were going originally. That could save them from infecting someone there. And if they change their behavior afterwards while they await results, you might save them from going to all the places they would have been in the mean time and infecting people there. Not foolproof, but for a disease that spreads exponentially every little way you can chip away at it helps.

    We simply can't live on like this with all the restrictions. I don't mean end it all today, but there's obviously a point where the cost of this exceeds the virus. The cure being worse than the disease does come into play at some point but we also have recognize how bad the disease is. People have to come together in a unified way with commitment to change behaviors as needed. We can't get all the way back to normal until we have a vaccine for this. But we can hopefully develop a new normal that economically supports society without causing irreversible devastation to the health care system in the meantime.


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  13. #2083
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I mean, if you just assume that everyone is a moron not capable of thinking things through then it really doesn't matter what the plan is, it's gonna fail. The only way through this is to thoroughly think things through, and then make extensive efforts to educate people and encourage compliance.

    Temperature screening is not foolproof. As you say, people can be asymptomatic. But there are probably a lot of people who got temperatures that would trip these thresholds but considered themselves asymptomatic. The temperature check can catch some of those.

    That person who tripped the temperature check would hopefully go get tested and isolate themselves until they have results. It's not foolproof, but in this scenario you stopped them from entering where they were going originally. That could save them from infecting someone there. And if they change their behavior afterwards while they await results, you might save them from going to all the places they would have been in the mean time and infecting people there. Not foolproof, but for a disease that spreads exponentially every little way you can chip away at it helps.

    We simply can't live on like this with all the restrictions. I don't mean end it all today, but there's obviously a point where the cost of this exceeds the virus. The cure being worse than the disease does come into play at some point but we also have recognize how bad the disease is. People have to come together in a unified way with commitment to change behaviors as needed. We can't get all the way back to normal until we have a vaccine for this. But we can hopefully develop a new normal that economically supports society without causing irreversible devastation to the health care system in the meantime.
    oh i dont disagree we cant live like this... i feel like we will just have to say to hell with it and let the virus run rampant until we get a vaccine... playing the middle isnt going to work... It has to be all or nothing... Either lock it all down to the point people are not allowed to leave their houses for a month with severe consequences if they do.... or just open it all back up and let the cards fall where they may... it sucks either way but opening things up slowly like we are isnt going to do much nor is temp screening. Temp screening is a nothing idea simply because that will lower peoples restrictions once inside because of their ability to now feel safe....


    the only thing that could possibly work is an actual covid test being available where you get the results in like a minute... the wait time to get in paces will suck but this is probably the only viable option.

  14. #2084
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    I don't think all or nothing is viable. If we "open it all back up" then our health care system is going to get overrun. The virus seems to spread too quickly to assume anything else at this juncture IMO. It goes 0 to 100 real quick with community spread.

    I think we're going to have to incorporate as many reasonable precautions as we can. We have to get open back up but since this spreads exponentially there are huge benefits to stopping even one case. I think we need total community buy in.

    Wearing masks in public places is imperative to me. Grocery stores might be the most dangerous places in the country right now with how many people go there.

    Temperature checking is not foolproof but I think it's an effective part of an overall strategy. People obviously need to know that if you don't have a temperature it doesn't mean toss all caution aside. Still gotta be smart. But temperature checks I think are a reasonable precaution we can take in a lot of areas. Lots of people who barely have a fever might not even notice it. So you can at least give people reason to stop and think. Maybe that person goes on to get a test and finds out they are actually positive. That temperature check stopped them from going into whoever it was and possible infecting someone. And then it stops them from going somewhere else still not knowing they had it and infecting others. All those small Ws add up.

    I think people who can effectively work from home should continue to do so. For some jobs there is sever productivity decline but others can run just fine. I know personally there's been no drop off in my accounting department with us all working remotely. If we let people work from home more we can reduce not thousands but MILLIONS of close range contact with people on a daily basis.

    I don't think any of the above significantly affects any part of life. Wearing a mask in the grocery store is annoying but is it really a hurdle to living life? Temperature checks will add some lines to places but in the grand scheme of things how much of an issue is that really? If people are capable of working from home without drop off what's the risk/problem with allowing it?

    We can't continue to live in total shut down like this but we as a society need to commit to piling up as many of these small Ws as we can. I've read that each person with coronavirus infects an average of between 2 and 2.5 people. That adds up QUICK. We need to take all the reasonable precautions to stop 1 case wherever we can. As many breaks in the chain of that exponential curve as we can force is important.

    Certain restrictions just won't be feasible. We can't have restaurants with 25% capacity to encourage social distancing - that's not enough traffic to still operate.

    But wearing a mask in the grocery store or walking through the mall has no downside. Taking your temperature as you go into a bar doesn't have downside. Working form home if you can do it effectively doesn't have downside. I'm not trying to say that those aren't inconveniences but they aren't significant. Saving one case here, another case there all adds up quick.


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  15. #2085
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    i mean testing for temps would be amazing and helpful if this virus didnt have people that didnt show symptoms and this virus could only be passed by people that show symptoms... but since this isnt the case temp testing will only make people lower their guards just to go out and have a good time because they dont understand or care how this works.

    Scientist nasty will now just say he knows this and he was just trying to show that china is doing something the US isnt just so he can say omg how dare the US even though doing this is actually stupid to a degree. We shouldnt have any type of mass openings period... testing for temps will only make people feel safer and will lead to the already dumb masses being even more dumb and ignorant thinking they dont have to wear masks or they can shake hands/hug/not wash their hands because nobody had a temp coming in.
    Hugepatsfan has been pretty much spot on. No test is perfect, temperature screening is probably VERY LOW sensitivity and specificity, but its SO EASY. It takes 4 seconds, it costs almost nothing, pay someone $120 a day and buy them that thermometer, they can screen thousands of people. Why not add this barrier to our system? Even if it helps reduce sick travelers by only 20%, that's worth it. It's so easily worth it.

    Remember when New York initially got hit and there was no distancing protocol (well there was, but that takes 2 weeks to start having its effect shown) their daily death was doubling every 2 to 3 days. If we have numerous protocol in place that can easily be extended to 5 to 6 days, which is a HUGE difference, especially in being able to keep an outbreak at bay.

    Why not implement something this simple? Why not have it as part of our fight against this virus?

    Same with face masks. They are SO EASY to implement. At worst it's a minor inconvenience. Why not just let's all deal with this minor inconvenience, if it reduces transmission by 50%, isnt that worth it?

    From both scientific and economic perspective, these are no brainers. Its so easy and cheap to implement, it will have legitimate effects on general rate of transmission.

    But our politicians are so stupid, its unbelieveable they cant even figure **** like this out. Much less the more nuanced and technical manners of running an economy within the midst of a pandemic. They cant even hit the lob pitch, no way they gonna hit the fastball...

    These are the sort of steps we have to take in order to get our economy up and running. So let's take them. What the **** is going on in the White House??

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    Last edited by nastynice; 05-14-2020 at 03:31 AM.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

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