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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I agree. Being mad at Miller is ridiculous. The guy is doing his job.


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    Despite being upset at the current situation, I hope they seriously consider him long term.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Ellington leading us to a win playing 27 min with Frank & Dot riding the bench is absurd but it's expected at this point so it is what it is. if it's not Ell it's Payton or someone else.

    but there is no clear cut pick this year as in years past.
    There would be if his last name weren't Ball. Also, guys like Nico have fallen off since the initial hype. Hayes might be the only one going in the opposite direction.

    I think it's more so that the number 1 pick isn't clear, but I do think that there has been separation from the top guys and everyone else even if it wasn't their own doing.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    There would be if his last name weren't Ball. Also, guys like Nico have fallen off since the initial hype. Hayes might be the only one going in the opposite direction.

    I think it's more so that the number 1 pick isn't clear, but I do think that there has been separation from the top guys and everyone else even if it wasn't their own doing.
    Name aside there are definitely question marks surrounding Ball. He's nowhere near the prospect Doncic was for instance and Doncic went #5.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Name aside there are definitely question marks surrounding Ball. He's nowhere near the prospect Doncic was for instance and Doncic went #5.
    I'm strictly talking about him in comparison to the others in this class. He's clearly better and has separated himself, but the stigma surrounding his family is why he won't go number 1.

    Honestly, the only difference that I can see between him and Doncic is the question about his shot, specifically his form and overall shot selection. If it translates, then you're probably looking at a similar player.
    Last edited by smood999; 02-09-2020 at 02:52 PM.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I'm strictly talking about him in comparison to the others in this class. He's clearly better and has separated himself, but the stigma surrounding his family is why he won't go number 1.

    Honestly, the only difference that I can see between him and Doncic is the question about his shot, specifically his form and overall shot selection. If it translates, then you're probably looking at a similar player.
    Doncic is built well, he has trunks for legs, very strong lower body. I don't see that with Ball.

    And the shooting is a big concern, he didn't really shoot well from anywhere, even on 2's he was 46% and most of his 2's were close to the rim.

    how would you compare the AUS league vs NCAA?

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Trade ups donít happen that often in the NBA because the talent pool simply isnít large enough. This is especially true in weak drafts. When they do happen is usually within the same perceived tier.

    If you want to argue that thereís no difference picking 5 or 8 this year, then fine. Itís still the Knicks missing out on top prospects. The top guys will end up on other teams and theyíll just end up chasing them via trade or free agency like usual.

    Everything is ok though. Itís not like we havenít seen this play out exactly this way for the last 20 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I get rooting for wins, but these wins will only add to your suffering in the long run. All of this is just incredibly short sighted.
    The large majority of teams that tank the way you are asking us to are suffering just as bad as us year after year after year. Knicks tanked their balls off in 2016, tried to win in 2017 and flopped, tanked away 3/4th of the season in 2018, they tanked their ***** of last year. Tanking hasn't done anything to cure our suffering. All of the teams at the bottom of the conferences sans GSW are perennial tank teams. You are acting like tanking is the medicine for our suffering and it's clearly not.

    Also, the last two drafts had trade ups at the top of the lottery. And yes I am talking about something from say 8th to 5th or 6th to 3rd. There are a lot of teams with solidified PG spots who will be placed in the top 5 so if we fall back I think we would be primed to trade up this year.

    No matter where the Knicks end up in the rankings, the odds of them falling out of your desirable spot in the draft are very high. You are painting this picture like getting a top 3 pick is easy or something. It's hard damn work to tank bad enough to give yourself the best shot at the top pick and once you get there, the odds are still stacked against you. You want to lose every game on purpose for the rest of the year to gain like a 5% added chance of landing where you want to land.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    The large majority of teams that tank the way you are asking us to are suffering just as bad as us year after year after year. Knicks tanked their balls off in 2016, tried to win in 2017 and flopped, tanked away 3/4th of the season in 2018, they tanked their ***** of last year. Tanking hasn't done anything to cure our suffering. All of the teams at the bottom of the conferences sans GSW are perennial tank teams. You are acting like tanking is the medicine for our suffering and it's clearly not.

    Also, the last two drafts had trade ups at the top of the lottery. And yes I am talking about something from say 8th to 5th or 6th to 3rd. There are a lot of teams with solidified PG spots who will be placed in the top 5 so if we fall back I think we would be primed to trade up this year.

    No matter where the Knicks end up in the rankings, the odds of them falling out of your desirable spot in the draft are very high. You are painting this picture like getting a top 3 pick is easy or something. It's hard damn work to tank bad enough to give yourself the best shot at the top pick and once you get there, the odds are still stacked against you. You want to lose every game on purpose for the rest of the year to gain like a 5% added chance of landing where you want to land.
    not a bad point that i hadn;t thought about, especially with MIN getting Dlo now, teams "ahead " of us have star PG's already except CHA & CLE who has Sexton. but i'm not high on Sexton, CLE might no be either.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Doncic is built well, he has trunks for legs, very strong lower body. I don't see that with Ball.

    And the shooting is a big concern, he didn't really shoot well from anywhere, even on 2's he was 46% and most of his 2's were close to the rim.

    how would you compare the AUS league vs NCAA?
    Doncic has a better body, but he's not winning with physicality and Ball's ball handling and agility is elite. It's also what makes him a lot different than Lonzo. Passing can go either way, but they are both elite at that as well.

    When you look at his shooting, it seems like the product of a rough start and shot selection more than anything.

    The NBL is definitely better than college basketball, especially considering that at a quick glance it looks like a who's who of former players who were very good in college, but didn't pan out in the NBA like Melo Trimble and Casper Ware. The league also has a bunch of former NBA players.

    It doesn't seem like China (Mudiay) at all where it's just a free for all and guys average 50 pts per game. He's actually playing better against better competition in comparison to the others. I think it's safe to assume, that his numbers would look insane against college players.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Name aside there are definitely question marks surrounding Ball. He's nowhere near the prospect Doncic was for instance and Doncic went #5.
    Doncic is a probably among the least athletic players in the nba though. Hes physically built like a kid who on his birthday wished he could be a NBA player, and it came true.

    So pre-draft, that was a legitimate concern which held him back. Melo doesnt have that issue.

    Donnie is just so offensively skillled and smart he can overcome that, especially in a league that massively rewards skilled offensive players.

    Im not really sure where the lamelo comparisons are coming from though. I have a very hard time seeing us drafting him, bringing his dad to ny, on a rebuilding team, with new management will be a massive failure for sure.

  10. #160
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    not against Ball, you guys make some good points. I change my mind every week this draft. Halisburton seems like a safer pick, Cole & Ball seem to have more star upside, and i might throw Hayes in there too.

  11. #161
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    It was a good win for the Knick on the road...that's about it.

    I don't see ANY of these players being on the roster after the dust settles and Leon Rose cleans house. He's going to do whatever it takes to package youth, picks and salary match to IMPORT a star(s) to build around. Dolan didn't bring in a sports agent to prioritize the draft. Get that out of your mind.

    Team President, Leon Rose is set to bring in his CAA buddy, William Wesley or World Wide Wes in as GM.

    Dolan is DONE with the "rebuild" plan as it's brought upon "Sell the Team" chants and other humiliating moments in MSG history.

    All Scott Perry did was load up on late First round picks...the Knicks haven't gotten much better and most of all, they have NO SHOT at getting a top 3 pick because...while other teams have unloaded their garbage and tanking, the Knicks are STILL trying to win games.

    Look at Scott Perry's resume in Orlando and Sacramento where he had clout...don't include Detroit, he didn't have as much say as he claimed...and definitely he was BS-ing in Seattle. NONE of his teams got any better. Below .500 20-25 wins 3-4 seasons before he left. The Knicks will be no different.
    Last edited by Dr. Detfink; 02-09-2020 at 03:26 PM.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    The large majority of teams that tank the way you are asking us to are suffering just as bad as us year after year after year. Knicks tanked their balls off in 2016, tried to win in 2017 and flopped, tanked away 3/4th of the season in 2018, they tanked their ***** of last year. Tanking hasn't done anything to cure our suffering. All of the teams at the bottom of the conferences sans GSW are perennial tank teams. You are acting like tanking is the medicine for our suffering and it's clearly not.

    Also, the last two drafts had trade ups at the top of the lottery. And yes I am talking about something from say 8th to 5th or 6th to 3rd. There are a lot of teams with solidified PG spots who will be placed in the top 5 so if we fall back I think we would be primed to trade up this year.

    No matter where the Knicks end up in the rankings, the odds of them falling out of your desirable spot in the draft are very high. You are painting this picture like getting a top 3 pick is easy or something. It's hard damn work to tank bad enough to give yourself the best shot at the top pick and once you get there, the odds are still stacked against you. You want to lose every game on purpose for the rest of the year to gain like a 5% added chance of landing where you want to land.
    The Knicks have tanked yet have only had two top 5 picks since 1986 and three top 7 picks in that same time? That doesn't make sense at all and a lot of that is because they did exactly what they are doing now as if getting to 30 wins means anything. It's not like they've been in a position to draft that high and simply fell out. They've dropped, but they've dropped after finishing 7, 8, 9 in the lottery standings.

    The only two times they've truly been one of the worst teams in the league resulted in KP and RJ. All of the other times, they needed to move up to have a chance, which is what you're basically asking for now. As little of a chance as they have to stay in a desired spot, it's even smaller that they move up.

    Doncic was traded for Trae Young. The other trade wasn't notable. Teams trade within tiers, they don't just say hey I have a top 3 pick and although this guy is clearly better, I'm going to drop down for more assets. The NBA doesn't work like that. Quality is much more important than quantity.

    You keep looking at it as ONLY tanking and that is not what I'm suggesting at all. There's nothing they can do at the moment besides put themselves in a better position for a top draft pick to get better in the future. 27 plus wins literally means nothing. As of right now, February 9, there's only one thing they can do to improve in the long run

    It's not the medicine to guarantee a championship, but it is to build a foundation to create a championship team, whether that's by trade or keeping the player. How many teams can you name that their success wasn't initiated by a draft pick they hit on in some form? Even the Raptors who everyone wants to point to doesn't get to trade for Kawhi without hitting on DeRozan in the draft. Most roads lead through the draft in some form.

    Even if the Sixers don't win a championship, they have two massive trade pieces in Embiid and Simmons to help them move forward.

    Look at the Grizzlies, Kings, and Mavs. Again, foundations established through the draft. They aren't title contenders now, but they now have a realistic avenue towards that with the foundation that they've built/the player or players that they are building around. Even the Suns with some maneuvering could end up being a good team. The Knicks do not have any semblance of a foundation and that is the issue.
    Last edited by smood999; 02-09-2020 at 03:26 PM.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by TakeAnotherL View Post
    Doncic is a probably among the least athletic players in the nba though. Hes physically built like a kid who on his birthday wished he could be a NBA player, and it came true.

    So pre-draft, that was a legitimate concern which held him back. Melo doesnt have that issue.

    Donnie is just so offensively skillled and smart he can overcome that, especially in a league that massively rewards skilled offensive players.

    Im not really sure where the lamelo comparisons are coming from though. I have a very hard time seeing us drafting him, bringing his dad to ny, on a rebuilding team, with new management will be a massive failure for sure.
    Wasn't necessarily a direct comparison. It was just highlighting how good Ball can be based on his skill set and showing that the biggest issue people have with him is his family.
    Last edited by smood999; 02-09-2020 at 03:31 PM.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    The Knicks have tanked yet have only had two top 5 picks since 1986 and three top 7 picks in that same time? That doesn't make sense at all and a lot of that is because they did exactly what they are doing now as if getting to 30 wins means anything. It's not like they've been in a position to draft that high and simply fell out. They've dropped, but they've dropped after finishing 7, 8, 9 in the lottery standings.

    The only two times they've truly been one of the worst teams in the league resulted in KP and RJ. All of the other times, they needed to move up to have a chance, which is what you're basically asking for now. As little of a chance as they have to stay in a desired spot, it's even smaller that they move up.

    Doncic was traded for Trae Young. The other trade wasn't notable. Teams trade within tiers, they don't just say hey I have a top 3 pick and although this guy is clearly better, I'm going to drop down for more assets. The NBA doesn't work like that. Quality is much more important than quantity.

    You keep looking at it as ONLY tanking and that is not what I'm suggesting at all. There's nothing they can do at the moment besides put themselves in a better position for a top draft pick to get better in the future. 27 plus wins literally means nothing. As of right now, February 9, there's only one thing they can do to improve in the long run

    It's not the medicine to guarantee a championship, but it is to build a foundation to create a championship team, whether that's by trade or keeping the player. How many teams can you name that their success wasn't initiated by a draft pick they hit on in some form? Even the Raptors who everyone wants to point to doesn't get to trade for Kawhi without hitting on DeRozan in the draft. Most roads lead through the draft in some form.

    Even if the Sixers don't win a championship, they have two massive trade pieces in Embiid and Simmons to help them move forward.

    Look at the Grizzlies, Kings, and Mavs. Again, foundations established through the draft. They aren't title contenders now, but they now have a realistic avenue towards that with the foundation that they've built/the player or players that they are building around. Even the Suns with some maneuvering could end up being a good team. The Knicks do not have any semblance of a foundation and that is the issue.
    Do you think the Knicks should have tanked in the 90ís?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  15. #165
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    Killian Hayes could fit in there in Knick Land

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