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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    When a team has Towns, Butler, and to a lesser extent Wiggins, they should be able to score a lot of points. I'm referring to the complaints about Fiz's approach.

    You and I agreed that there wasn't much difference between Fiz's offense and what most other teams did and that it was just a matter of personnel. It'll be the same conversation with Thibs, especially without scorers on the level of Towns and Butler.
    Fiz didnt teach good offense, good defense, or anything good at all though.

    Thats the difference between him and thibs.

    Thibs has shown he can make players far better than when he got them. We have a young team, thats the kind of coach we need.

    Fiz on the other hand made all of our young players worse. To compare those two is ridiculous. Fiz is a complete joke as a coach. No one will ever consider him to be HC again, thibs will for sure get another HC job.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    When a team has Towns, Butler, and to a lesser extent Wiggins, they should be able to score a lot of points. I'm referring to the complaints about Fiz's approach.

    You and I agreed that there wasn't much difference between Fiz's offense and what most other teams did and that it was just a matter of personnel. It'll be the same conversation with Thibs, especially without scorers on the level of Towns and Butler.
    PSD is would hate Pop, Dean Smith, Coach K, Brad Stevens without talent (probably with as well).... that doesn't make them bad coaches. Thibs had this rap in Minn that I don't think fit reality. The team ran a very fast, efficient offense. His calling card D sucked and he's a frumpy old white guy. He did just clear out most of the time for Rose but the team overachieved and looking at the roster I really don't blame him. I am of the opinion that this team does not need a star coach and actually think it is bad decision to bring in a star coach until you are really trying to win. It usually doesn't end well.
    Last edited by ewing; 02-20-2020 at 05:38 PM.
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  3. #153
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    I'm not really for Thibs, but looking at it this way, we've had so many laxed guys who've had it easy. Maybe Thibs is what we need to light a fire under guys like Knox, DSJR, Frank...even Randle on the defensive end.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    PSD is would hate Pop, Dean Smith, Coach K, Brad Stevens without talent (probably with as well).... that doesn't make them bad coaches. Thibs had this rap in Minn that I don't think fit reality. The team ran a very fast, efficient offense. His calling card D sucked and he's a frumpy old white guy. He did just clear out most of the time for Rose but the team overachieved and looking at the roster I really don't blame him. I am of the opinion that this team does not need a star coach and actually think it is bad decision to bring in a star coach until you are really trying to win. It usually doesn't end well.
    I don't disagree. It's the last part that gets me. I would much prefer a no name, forward thinker, than the big name that may or may not be stuck in the past.

    It's not about a system for me either, especially since I think that very few teams run them. It's more philosophical (pace, 3's vs. midrange, post play, etc.). I'm not an extremist when it comes to those things, but they should somewhat try to resemble a more modern team. I don't know if Thibs is that. Fine with giving him a try though since I think players are ultimately what matters most.

  5. #155
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    Thibs might not be the ideal coach but it's not like coaches are lining up to take the Knicks' job. For example Phil Jackson wanted Steve Kerr, got Derek "Wife swap" Fisher and Jeff Hornacek instead.

    Leon Rose knows, the Knicks' Draft picks are worthless right now. Why? Well they're not developing at a fast enough pace to be worth value. Thibs will run these kids in practice, in game...etc.

    There's no question in my mind as soon as the season is over, Rose FIRES Scott Perry for his love of mediocrity then proceeds to throw all the vets out.

    Here's the question...how much is Rose willing to trade in picks, talent, etc for a superstar? I SEE a Melo sized deal and MORE to land his center piece.

    This is about stars. Not about rebuilding.

  6. #156
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    I'm 50/50 with Thib but do agree till the roster is set just stick with Miller right now. And Miller is doing with this roster probably as well as any other coach that would have stepped in:

    Now Thibs developing young? Not sure how this shouts out in his case, to be honest?

    He got Rose in year 3, and in year two Rose already was an all star scoring nearly 21 per game.

    that 62 win team had vets, named Boozer, Noah, Deng, Thomas at 38, Gibson was 25 that year, Brewer, Korver was 29, Bogans at 30

    Only player under 25.5 years who played more than 12 min was Rose again in year 3, already an all star?



    He Did get Butler the next year as a rookie but Butler was 22 and didn't score more than 13 pts till year 4, which is still good, but is that Thib or Butler? Let's give it to Thibs, so that is one player, a very talented player that grew under his ranks.

    But now in year two all vets, Rose now in year 4 age 23 but nobody else under 26? You know in their prime.

    Team in one year went down 12 games then the very next year go down another 5 with 45 wins. But now adds more vets in Hinrich, Belinelli, Nate, Hamilton, ages 32, 26, 28, 34

    And now have Teague at age 19 getting 8 min

    The next season all vets again only a year older, and now add in more vets Dunleavy 33 and augustin 26. Teague now behind Augustin and gets 12 min in year two. These vets got them 3 more wins up to 48.

    The very next year 2 more wins 50, but added more vets in pau 34, Brooks 30. Still not sure where all this development is coming from, so far Butler?

    Seems to me Thibs thrives with vets all in Prime or older, only two younger players were Rose who was an allstar before Thibs was HC and Butler who was 22 when drafted, there really is not one other player besides Butler you can point to for Thibs to say he developed?

    As I stated I'm 50/50 with Thibs and I'm right now still okay with Miller till the roster is more defined.


    And JVG? I'm not sure he developed one single player? Maybe Camby? he got him in year 2 so I guess you give that one to Jeff, but that is it, Knicks roster was in those days were always prime and up.


    IDK, Miller could simply be a good choice, he did have the G-league we hear he did well in development so there is that, I wouldn't just look at him that he's not playing Frank and Knox extended min........I actually think they are both getting what they should be getting. Mitch would get more if not for fouls and RJ gets a ton.


    Let's see where our new GM will take us with Rose.

  7. 02-20-2020, 11:09 PM
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    Insulting other members

  8. #157
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    I have not read one post of anyone backing Fiz? Not sure where any comparison comes from.

    As stated I'm 50/50 with Thibs, but he did have a team of vets, probably most experience in the league each year, or close to it.

    It is also not a stretch to understand he didn't overachieve in minny.......

    Now with the draft, 60m in cap, and any trades, I guess if your switching coach's and Miller isn't the guy you do it after the season......

    At some point one thing should be clear to all, stability, we are desperate for it.

  9. #158
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    Point is Knicks are not going to be about development or youth movement going forward they want to start winning and if Rose gets a star player with vets then Thibs is more qualified then Miller.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

  10. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    Thibs might not be the ideal coach but it's not like coaches are lining up to take the Knicks' job. For example Phil Jackson wanted Steve Kerr, got Derek "Wife swap" Fisher and Jeff Hornacek instead.

    Leon Rose knows, the Knicks' Draft picks are worthless right now. Why? Well they're not developing at a fast enough pace to be worth value. Thibs will run these kids in practice, in game...etc.

    There's no question in my mind as soon as the season is over, Rose FIRES Scott Perry for his love of mediocrity then proceeds to throw all the vets out.

    Here's the question...how much is Rose willing to trade in picks, talent, etc for a superstar? I SEE a Melo sized deal and MORE to land his center piece.

    This is about stars. Not about rebuilding.
    For years you keep hearing about the haul for Melo? Does anyone not recognize that Billups pre injury was in that trade? We gave up Chandler, career injuries, nothing that floats your boat, Gallo again injuries no all star appearances, but just a solid player, Felton, Mozzy, and 2 firsts and 2 seconds

    But KNick also got back a 2016 first, and got rid of Curry and Randoph.

    Getting Billups, Melo and a pick, we did not give up a big haul.........


    Also the funny thing about trades for stars, we won't be the only team vying for them......and do we have enough vs another teams assets?

    Right now besides RJ and Mitch I'm not sure who we have that is even in the Chandler, Gallo category?

    And the funny thing about 7 picks you really can't use them all.
    Last edited by still a fan; 02-20-2020 at 11:35 PM.

  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetos185 View Post
    Point is Knicks are not going to be about development or youth movement going forward they want to start winning and if Rose gets a star player with vets then Thibs is more qualified then Miller.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
    Based on 2014? Also I'm not sure we have a defensive MVP, a MVP, a strong vet in Pau, a multi allstar in butler, a 41% three point vet in Dunleavy,, a defensive SG in Hinrich, and a good PG off the bench in Brooks.

    That's a pretty large resume to match there. I'm still 50/50 but the more you look at it, I may slide a bit towards Smoods argument.

    Somehow I think we keep two young players at a min to develop. And I'm not sure you hire a coach based on yea we will definitely make a trade for good vets? You think we have the assets to pull that off?

  12. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    Rose is not making Houston the GM, just stop. All signs indicate he will bring in an experienced GM. Houston most likely gets a FO role of some sort. There are loads of roles he would get that would be a promotion from where he is at now. He probably ends up with a title of "special assistant" or some ****. He's basically the inside man who can assist the new regime in understanding how things operate at the Garden.
    Its not about Rose.....look it may not happen, Maybe there's an off chance Rose is allowed to bring in an experienced GM....but you can't possibly be that naive to think that ol Jimmy boy is above arranging a shotgun marriage at the top of his front office....

    You've been a Knick fan long enough.....Houston getting the GM job is not only viable....but the writing is on the wall


    JETS KNICKS YANKEES RANGERS

  13. 02-20-2020, 11:49 PM
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    Response to deleted post

  14. #162
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    I'm all for keeping Miller, he has shown he can work with what we have and produce results. He's more of a teacher then Fiz, Hornacek, Rambis or Fisher were. He's liked by the players, but still holds them accountable. He's working close with ALL his assistants and knows the organisation from within.

    We will not be any good the next 2-3 years, so why not use him to build a foundation of players and reconsider in 2 years, if you then need a pedigree coach to be successful.

    Thibs is a step in the past, as is van Gundy or Jackson. This would be such a knicks thing to do. Appreciate hard work and especially what you have. That is where culture starts.
    `

  15. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    For years you keep hearing about the haul for Melo? Does anyone not recognize that Billups pre injury was in that trade? We gave up Chandler, career injuries, nothing that floats your boat, Gallo again injuries no all star appearances, but just a solid player, Felton, Mozzy, and 2 firsts and 2 seconds

    But KNick also got back a 2016 first, and got rid of Curry and Randoph.

    Getting Billups, Melo and a pick, we did not give up a big haul.........


    Also the funny thing about trades for stars, we won't be the only team vying for them......and do we have enough vs another teams assets?

    Right now besides RJ and Mitch I'm not sure who we have that is even in the Chandler, Gallo category?

    And the funny thing about 7 picks you really can't use them all.
    it was a bad trade and we didn't get back a 2016 1st, DEN had swap rights as well on that pick so they took our good pick and drafted Garry Harris and left us with a late 1st.

  16. #164
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    Maybe thibs can push some of the youngings, doesn't mean he's the master developer but yes he did very well with some young players like Rose & BUtler and even Noah.

  17. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    it was a bad trade and we didn't get back a 2016 1st, DEN had swap rights as well on that pick so they took our good pick and drafted Garry Harris and left us with a late 1st.
    your right on the swap but what is the difference we traded that pick recall so it didn't matter, we had no pick in 2016. And the 2012 pick wound up being Saric, and they got Murray. We got Billups who Murray can only dream of being one day and a top 10 player at the time for a bunch of role players and Saric and Murray........I'd say you make that trade today, and every day in my opinion.

    How old was Melo when we got him? The throw in at the time was Mozzy and that later on hurt us how?

    So if Billups didn't get hurt you and I wouldn't even be typing this crap to be honest, and the last decade would have went quite differently. Melo and Billups played very well together.


    Do Knick even remember the roll we were on? His last games as a Knick we were 7-1 and the lost was his last game he would ever play with us.

    Big Billups fan, loved the trade, was a fan, big word fan of Chandler and Gallo, but loved, loved, and loved the trade..........as did at the time 99% of the NBA world for the Knicks. We gave up nothing for two very talented players
    Yes we got Billups at 34 but he had 2-3 years left in him, he was a 18/6 guy for us, we also got Cory Brewer in the trade, and even after that devastating injury Billups came back for a bit for the Clips and his first 20 games put up 15/4........The Billups went about his work we may even of had him for 4 years and what a mentor he would have been because he finally retired when we drafted Frank and I'd say without the injury he could have lasted in that Sessions role.

    Big injury and very much a lack of Knicks not putting the right players around Melo.

    7 straight wins, Billups and Melo were ruling, Knick fans were in heaven, but nooooo we don't recall that, no one does, damn shame.

    I was actually hoping Frank would be our Billups.

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