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  1. #1
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    After the SB, where does Richard Sherman rank?

    In the SB, his receiver was targeted 6 times for 6 completions, 77 yards, 1 TD and a 158.3 passer rating.

    After the game Sammy Watkins thanks Davante Adams for tape showing him how to beat Sherman.

    Is Sherman solved if other WRs can follow this tape?
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate



    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  2. #2
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    I don't really know what specifically Adams showed Watkins, but Sherman has always preferred to give up out routes in lieu of getting beat deep. That's not really bad approach in general, because throws outside the numbers require a QB to throw with accuracy and speed. The one big catch Watkins had late in the game he faked to the outside and beat Sherman deep past his inside.

    But I also don't like passer rating for DBs because it doesn't take into a account the times they weren't targeted due to good coverage. If you take away the aforementioned big play, Sherman allowed 5 completions for 39 yards. I don't know which TD was on him... on the Williams TD catch he was the closest but not the one responsible. (The DB covering Williams got picked.)
    Last edited by QB_Eagles; 02-06-2020 at 11:47 AM.

  3. #3
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    Sherman has played at or near an elite level for nearly 7 years, his legacy is already established. I fully expect him to start declining due to age, it's honestly impressive he played so well after the Achilles tear. For anyone, especially a bust like Watkins, to act like there's some super secret new formula to beating him is ridiculous; kinda like when the Pats beat the 2014 Seahawks by attacking the flats. That's literally the biggest weakness of most cover 3 defenses and everyone knows it, but most teams arent as capable as Brady and his quick pass weapons were.

    I've never liked him, but you have to respect his career.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    I don't really know what specifically Adams showed Watkins, but Sherman has always preferred to give up out routes in lieu of getting beat deep. That's not really bad approach in general, because throws outside the numbers require a QB to throw with accuracy and speed. The one big catch Watkins had late in the game he faked to the outside and beat Sherman deep past his inside.
    Watkins gave credit to Green Bay Packers wide receiver Davante Adams for showing him the way to beat Sherman.

    “I just knew it was one-on-one [coverage],” Watkins said, via Rob Demovsky of ESPN.com. “I thank Davante Adams, man, because I [saw] him kill [Sherman] on inside release.”

    Watkins was referencing Adams’ 65-yard catch behind Sherman in the NFC Championship game two weeks earlier. Adams similarly got free on an inside release against Sherman and beat him on a vertical route up field. While that game was well in hand for the 49ers, Watkins’ catch served as a major dagger to San Francisco.

    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    But I also don't like passer rating for DBs because it doesn't take into a account the times they weren't targeted due to good coverage. If you take away the aforementioned big play, Sherman allowed 5 completions for 39 yards. I don't know which TD was on him... on the Williams TD catch he was the closest but not the one responsible. (The DB covering Williams got picked.)
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate



    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  5. #5
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    HOF but I rather have Revis

  6. #6
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    Sherman has been in the league 9 years and is a 3 time all pro. I sure hope no one's opinion of him changed in one game.

    Sherman is who he is. He's one of the best zone corners to ever play the game. He's very intelligent and typically diagnoses plays well. He has good ball skills and size, so combine that with his game IQ and you get a guy who's phenomenal in zone. He also isn't great with long speed or short area quickness. He's not a chase man coverage guy. If a guy gets a release on him and he has to chase and follow, he's not elite, but still pretty good. I'd take guys like Revis and champ bailey over him in recent memory, but you can do alot worse than Sherman. And if you have a Sherman, just be smart about your defensive calls and you'll excel.

  7. #7
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    Before the SuperBowl? Top 5 all-time CB.

    After? Bottom 5 all-time CB.
    The Baker has come. Believe the hype.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Sherman has been in the league 9 years and is a 3 time all pro. I sure hope no one's opinion of him changed in one game.

    Sherman is who he is. He's one of the best zone corners to ever play the game. He's very intelligent and typically diagnoses plays well. He has good ball skills and size, so combine that with his game IQ and you get a guy who's phenomenal in zone. He also isn't great with long speed or short area quickness. He's not a chase man coverage guy. If a guy gets a release on him and he has to chase and follow, he's not elite, but still pretty good. I'd take guys like Revis and champ bailey over him in recent memory, but you can do alot worse than Sherman. And if you have a Sherman, just be smart about your defensive calls and you'll excel.
    Revis says Sherman is bad and is a system corner who can't play on his own.

    So is Revis bad if he's wrong about Sherman?
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate



    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Revis says Sherman is bad and is a system corner who can't play on his own.

    So is Revis bad if he's wrong about Sherman?
    Revis is more of a system CB than Sherman IMO. If I want a CB to man up on the other teams WR and follow him mindlessly all game long, I take Revis every time. If I want a CB who can play any zone coverage and operate within the overall defensive scheme, I'm taking Sherman. Revis was a total waste when used in zone defenses. Having Revis required you to run a mostly man coverage defense or run a lot of combo coverage, both of which are tougher on the rest of your defense.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Revis is more of a system CB than Sherman IMO. If I want a CB to man up on the other teams WR and follow him mindlessly all game long, I take Revis every time. If I want a CB who can play any zone coverage and operate within the overall defensive scheme, I'm taking Sherman. Revis was a total waste when used in zone defenses. Having Revis required you to run a mostly man coverage defense or run a lot of combo coverage, both of which are tougher on the rest of your defense.
    The guy who can go 1:1 with basically any WR and win is a system guy, but the guy who needs safety help over the top to stop the #3 WR isn't a system guy?

    I can't say I agree.


    I'm a Sherman fan generally, and I enjoyed the Bills getting rent free space on Revis island from time to time, but the more time Sherman has spent outside of the LoB, the more it seems he was overhyped there.

    But all the big name CBs have this issue. Xavier Rhodes comes to mind. Jalen Ramsey hasn't been great after the Jags.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate



    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    The guy who can go 1:1 with basically any WR and win is a system guy, but the guy who needs safety help over the top to stop the #3 WR isn't a system guy?

    I can't say I agree.


    I'm a Sherman fan generally, and I enjoyed the Bills getting rent free space on Revis island from time to time, but the more time Sherman has spent outside of the LoB, the more it seems he was overhyped there.

    But all the big name CBs have this issue. Xavier Rhodes comes to mind. Jalen Ramsey hasn't been great after the Jags.
    To be fair, he's also older and had a significant injury.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    The guy who can go 1:1 with basically any WR and win is a system guy, but the guy who needs safety help over the top to stop the #3 WR isn't a system guy?

    I can't say I agree.


    I'm a Sherman fan generally, and I enjoyed the Bills getting rent free space on Revis island from time to time, but the more time Sherman has spent outside of the LoB, the more it seems he was overhyped there.

    But all the big name CBs have this issue. Xavier Rhodes comes to mind. Jalen Ramsey hasn't been great after the Jags.
    As I said, man to man, Revis is better, but that's literally all he did. He was just like Nnamdi Asomugha, a strict man CB. When he played zone he was lost and didn't have a good understanding of where his teammates were or how to best utilize his zone. Sherman has a much higher football IQ and knows when to pass off his receiver and reacts instantly to most route combinations. As a man CB you're literally just trying to mirror the WR, which is certainly a more difficult individual task, but it also puts your team in the situation of needing to play man across the board or have incomplete zones. There's a reason Revis went from best CB to complete trash, he no longer had elite athletic ability to mirror receivers and he wasn't good at anything else.

    I really don't care for Sherman off the field. I think he's very smart but says a lot of dumb ****, and the handshake thing wasn't a good look. But as a player dude is insane. I read that he gave up the lowest QB rate during the regular season and then (before the SB) was allowing a worse passer rating than if the QB just threw into the dirt. I don't like PFF, but I think I read he was the top CB in 2019. He's had elite play with two teams and came back from what I expected to be a career ending injury. People are just taking their shots after a bad couple plays in the SB because he's an unlikable player and he talks a lot.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Revis says Sherman is bad and is a system corner who can't play on his own.

    So is Revis bad if he's wrong about Sherman?
    I have no idea what you're trying to ask but great players don't always make great judges of talent or skill.

  14. #14
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    Very much disagree that Revis makes it harder for the rest of the defense. He literally takes away the #1. In zone, teams could just line their #3 or #4 across from Sherman and take advantage of the other guys. And since prime Revis needed no help, you can double and help your weak link alot easier in that situation. If I know you're playing zone, I can run plays to make sure I get my #1 on your weak link often. If Revis has eliminated that #1, you obviously can't do that.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    Revis is more of a system CB than Sherman IMO. If I want a CB to man up on the other teams WR and follow him mindlessly all game long, I take Revis every time. If I want a CB who can play any zone coverage and operate within the overall defensive scheme, I'm taking Sherman. Revis was a total waste when used in zone defenses. Having Revis required you to run a mostly man coverage defense or run a lot of combo coverage, both of which are tougher on the rest of your defense.
    I think most defensive coaches would take Revis over Sherman, but as you say it really depends on the team and scheme in question.

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