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  1. #7246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    I have a feeling the Knicks are going to get shut out of free agency unless they vastly overpay. The Knicks might be able to sign Christian Wood by outbidding more promising teams.

    Remember in order for the Knicks to convince Ama're to sign with the Knicks, Donnie Walsh had to outbid Phoenix (the only suitor) by nine million per season. Desire is a factor.
    Agreed, and this is why I do not think FVV will become a Knick.

  2. #7247
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    agreed, if he was 23/24 and had better physical tools, untapped potential fine... but we're talking about a small PG who will be 27 and has been a career role player and had a career year in a shortened season. Buying high on a role player when you are so far away from contending is never a good idea.
    Not that I care but how is Bertans or Gallo any different? FVV plays a position of need and he's better than Bert but honestly, i dont want either.
    Last edited by Bivory; 10-21-2020 at 09:03 AM.

  3. #7248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Not that I care but how is Bertans or Gallo any different? FVV plays a position of need and he's better than Bert but honestly, i dont want either.
    i've said it before, because there aren't 10 stretch 4 options in the draft. This draft is LOADED with PG's, reminds me of the Jordan Hill draft

    Rubio
    Curry
    Jennings
    Jrue
    Teague
    Lawson
    Collison
    Evans
    Flynn
    Harden

    there were so many PG's available to us that year, same will apply this year. There's no reason to overpay for one in FAgency unless you feel he's the long term answer.

    OTOH I don't see us drafting a stretch 4, and Bertans & Gallo can probably be had for 2-3 year deals instead of 4. Their shooting and presence would help immensely.

  4. #7249
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    Bertans brings an ELITE skill too, he's literally Steph Curry in terms of 3pt shooting. FVV is a very good 3pt shooter, but he's not Bertans good, and Bertans has done it multiple seasons even on bad teams. I think FVV has benefited from being in a great situation.

  5. #7250
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    i've said it before, because there aren't 10 stretch 4 options in the draft. This draft is LOADED with PG's, reminds me of the Jordan Hill draft

    Rubio
    Curry
    Jennings
    Jrue
    Teague
    Lawson
    Collison
    Evans
    Flynn
    Harden

    there were so many PG's available to us that year, same will apply this year. There's no reason to overpay for one in FAgency unless you feel he's the long term answer.

    OTOH I don't see us drafting a stretch 4, and Bertans & Gallo can probably be had for 2-3 year deals instead of 4. Their shooting and presence would help immensely.
    Yeah, I'm not seeing the difference. Just because there are a ton of PGs in this draft, doesn't mean that we come away with a guy who is going to be ready to start from day one, let alone in a year or two.

    FVV is younger than Bertans & Gallo, and likely would only cost marginally more money. And while Gallo might be amenable to a 1 or 2 year deal, Bertans is going to be looking for the same type of deal that FVV will be looking for - around 3 or 4 years for a good amount of money per year.

  6. #7251
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Bertans brings an ELITE skill too, he's literally Steph Curry in terms of 3pt shooting. FVV is a very good 3pt shooter, but he's not Bertans good, and Bertans has done it multiple seasons even on bad teams. I think FVV has benefited from being in a great situation.
    FVV is 10x more valuable to the Knicks than Bert. Bert does one thing and one thing only which is why he doesn't start on a terrible team. I don't want either of these guys but if I had to choose, regardless of the price difference, it would be FVV.

  7. #7252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Yeah, I'm not seeing the difference. Just because there are a ton of PGs in this draft, doesn't mean that we come away with a guy who is going to be ready to start from day one, let alone in a year or two.

    FVV is younger than Bertans & Gallo, and likely would only cost marginally more money. And while Gallo might be amenable to a 1 or 2 year deal, Bertans is going to be looking for the same type of deal that FVV will be looking for - around 3 or 4 years for a good amount of money per year.
    they don't need to be, we aren't contending next year, and getting the #8 seed wouldn't be good for the long term growth of the team. So if they aren't ready for 2 years fine, get a stop gap like DJ Augustine or Lin. But why lock up the PG position for 4 years?

    i think there's a very clear difference, if we had a chance to draft Deni for instance I wouldn't be saying lets go out and pay $20m for another PF.
    Last edited by nycericanguy; 10-21-2020 at 09:34 AM.

  8. #7253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    FVV is 10x more valuable to the Knicks than Bert. Bert does one thing and one thing only which is why he doesn't start on a terrible team. I don't want either of these guys but if I had to choose, regardless of the price difference, it would be FVV.
    10x no... in a vacuum he's more valuable. but I rather Bertans and draft a PG and give them a chance to grow and develop vs locking up the position.

  9. #7254
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    they don't need to be, we aren't contending next year, and getting the #8 seed wouldn't be good for the long term growth of the team. So if they aren't ready for 2 years fine, get a stop gap like DJ Augustine or Lin. But why lock up the PG position for 4 years?

    i think there's a very clear difference, if we had a chance to draft Deni for instance I wouldn't be saying lets go out and pay $20m for another PF.
    I don't think FVV alone makes us contend for the #8 seed, but I get your point. With that said, I think everyone's talked ad nauseam about two points. First, that we need a real PG in order to see how good our young guys really are. DJ Augustin might fit that bill, but I'm not sure. And second, Leon Rose and Thibs weren't brought in to completely tank. So as much as I wouldn't mind them starting whatever PG we draft and losing 65-70 games, that's just not going to happen.

    Signing FVV should have no effect on what we do at PG really. He's shown he can play either PG/SG, or come off the bench. It's a versatile signing, and doesn't really tie us into anything. He should have an easily tradeable contract as long as it's not outrageous.

  10. #7255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I don't think FVV alone makes us contend for the #8 seed, but I get your point. With that said, I think everyone's talked ad nauseam about two points. First, that we need a real PG in order to see how good our young guys really are. DJ Augustin might fit that bill, but I'm not sure. And second, Leon Rose and Thibs weren't brought in to completely tank. So as much as I wouldn't mind them starting whatever PG we draft and losing 65-70 games, that's just not going to happen.

    Signing FVV should have no effect on what we do at PG really. He's shown he can play either PG/SG, or come off the bench. It's a versatile signing, and doesn't really tie us into anything. He should have an easily tradeable contract as long as it's not outrageous.
    he's 6 feet tall with Trex arms. He got away with playing SG in TOR but they had Lowry who is built like a tank and can take pressure off on BOTH ends. Not sure it would work everywhere.

    And I'm not saying tank, clearly Bertans & Gallo aren't tank pieces. I'm just saying don't commit so much to a position where we can draft someone.

    I could live with it at the end of the day, it's just not what i'd do. just like if Deni drops and we take him, I say scratch going after Bertans or Gallo at big money.

  11. #7256
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    Yeah I would definitely rather sign Bertans and draft a PG than overpay for FVV.

  12. #7257
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    he's 6 feet tall with Trex arms. He got away with playing SG in TOR but they had Lowry who is built like a tank and can take pressure off on BOTH ends. Not sure it would work everywhere.

    And I'm not saying tank, clearly Bertans & Gallo aren't tank pieces. I'm just saying don't commit so much to a position where we can draft someone.

    I could live with it at the end of the day, it's just not what i'd do. just like if Deni drops and we take him, I say scratch going after Bertans or Gallo at big money.
    Toronto didn't get away with playing him at SG. They won a damn championship and then made it to the 2nd round (minus Kawhi) with FVV at SG. It's because he's a good, smart defender regardless of what he cedes in size.

  13. #7258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Toronto didn't get away with playing him at SG. They won a damn championship and then made it to the 2nd round (minus Kawhi) with FVV at SG. It's because he's a good, smart defender regardless of what he cedes in size.
    Yes but TOR's been one of the best run teams for 10 years. And yes they won b/c of Khawi. FVV averaged 8ppg on 39% shooting those playoffs.

    Yes he's a solid player, tough, gritty. but he's undersized and what he did on TOR he may not do elsewhere. Remember Avery Bradley? undersized guard had great success and fell off completely after BOS. BOS is another team known to get the most out of role players, we are on the opposite spectrum.

    TOR has a great TEAM defense, we may get there under Thibs, but we aren't there now.

  14. #7259
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    i've said it before, because there aren't 10 stretch 4 options in the draft. This draft is LOADED with PG's, reminds me of the Jordan Hill draft

    Rubio
    Curry
    Jennings
    Jrue
    Teague
    Lawson
    Collison
    Evans
    Flynn
    Harden

    there were so many PG's available to us that year, same will apply this year. There's no reason to overpay for one in FAgency unless you feel he's the long term answer.

    OTOH I don't see us drafting a stretch 4, and Bertans & Gallo can probably be had for 2-3 year deals instead of 4. Their shooting and presence would help immensely.
    There were also a lot of point guards available the year frank came out and most of them turned out to be busts. FVV might be a role player, but there is nothing wrong with that. Hes probably no worse than Felton was when we first signed him. Felton was no Magic Johnson, but we played much better with him on the team. If we get creative with the contract, we can still keep our options open in 2021.

  15. #7260
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFG-NYC View Post
    There were also a lot of point guards available the year frank came out and most of them turned out to be busts. FVV might be a role player, but there is nothing wrong with that. Hes probably no worse than Felton was when we first signed him. Felton was no Magic Johnson, but we played much better with him on the team. If we get creative with the contract, we can still keep our options open in 2021.
    not really, DSJR & Mitchell really were the only ones after Frank.

    yea these guys might be busts, but draft them and find out. don't draft them and then immediately sign another PG for $20m.

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