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  1. #5791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Call it whatever you want. They didn't make it out of the first round despite Donovan Mitchell's insane performance, and even if they did, nobody would have expected them to seriously contend for the conference finals.

    Mitchell controls the ball 80% of the time anyway. They were better without Conley during the regular season. I'm not sure Conley is even the 3rd most important player on the team, yet he's taking up a third of their cap space.

    I see no scenario where Utah dips in the luxury tax, especially to the extent I identified above. The only teams that should be paying that much in luxury tax are serious contenders like the Warriors, Lakers, Clippers who also might be pandemic proof.
    Iíd also keep in mind, do you think Gobert is getting a max deal? I doubt that..Also, they know leaning on DM that heavily will never work

    Iíd bet they roll as is, see where they end up, then make that choice
    Last edited by ShadyOne; 09-07-2020 at 08:29 PM.

  2. #5792
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    And if Frank is involved...

    Utah would love a young defensive PG/SG to play alongside Mitchell.

    Conley(34M) + pick23(1M)
    =
    Randle(19M) + Frank(6M) + pick38

    10M savings and an interesting bench.

    Mitchell
    Frank (Ingles)
    Bogdanovic (O'Nealy)
    Randle
    Gobert (Bradley)

  3. #5793
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Iíd also keep in mind, do you think Gobert is getting a max deal? I doubt that..Also, they know leaning on DM that heavily will never work

    Iíd bet they roll as is, see where they end up, then make that choice
    I think there's a strong possibility that he gets a max contract. He's a perennial DPOY candidate. I could also see him getting close to a max, similar to what he makes now but without the significant raises due to his additional yrs of experience.

  4. #5794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I think there's a strong possibility that he gets a max contract. He's a perennial DPOY candidate. I could also see him getting close to a max, similar to what he makes now but without the significant raises due to his additional yrs of experience.
    I was only asking, because if they are as cheap and driven by that tax as you say, then basically that team is locked into that roster for the forseeable future, without much chance of improving. Itís rare for mostly defensive oriented players to command that kind of money right now.

  5. #5795
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    Dec 2009
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    Knicks coming out of draft night with:

    Conley
    pick8 SG(Vassell/Nesmith/Okoro) or PG(Hayes/Haliburton/Cole)
    pick23 PG (Kira/Maxey/Terry) or SG (Green/Stanley/Bane)
    pick27 ???

    And without Randle would be a great move.

  6. #5796
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    I was only asking, because if they are as cheap and driven by that tax as you say, then basically that team is locked into that roster for the forseeable future, without much chance of improving. Itís rare for mostly defensive oriented players to command that kind of money right now.
    I mean, I basically agree. I think once Mitchell and Gobert's extensions kick in, they'll be very limited in how they can get better. This is basically how it goes with small market teams though.

  7. #5797
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    Also, the Utah Jazz have only paid the luxury tax twice in their history, with the last time in 2010-2011, just before the League changed the rules to make the tax more onerous.

  8. #5798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Call it whatever you want. They didn't make it out of the first round despite Donovan Mitchell's insane performance, and even if they did, nobody would have expected them to seriously contend for the conference finals.

    Mitchell controls the ball 80% of the time anyway. They were better without Conley during the regular season. I'm not sure Conley is even the 3rd most important player on the team, yet he's taking up a third of their cap space.

    I see no scenario where Utah dips in the luxury tax, especially to the extent I identified above. The only teams that should be paying that much in luxury tax are serious contenders like the Warriors, Lakers, Clippers who also might be pandemic proof.
    This does make some sense. As I agree next season could be very different as far as teams spending goes.

    And jazz could do what bucks did, letting brogdon go, which I felt was a terrible decision, but it didnt stop them from doing it.

    As long as were not pretending that the jazz are doing this to get better or to get randle, than it starts to make sense.

    What other teams are facing luxury tax implications that we can try to fleece?

  9. #5799
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    Jun 2011
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    653
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    We can just agree to disagree.

    Utah owners, notoriously cheap pre-pandemic. Are they willing to pay the luxury tax for a 6th seed that couldn't make it out of the first round next year in a pandemic-affected season? Especially when their two best players are both up for max extensions? I guess time will tell.

    The Jazz are at $118M right now. Let's say Clarkson doesn't even get a raise from what he made last year. Now, you're at $132M, which is the luxury tax threshold. You can still use the mid-level exception, which is about $9M. But now you're paying $1.75 for each dollar you spend. If you are signing other players, including the 1st round pick, and you go more than $10M over the luxury tax (which they would in this scenario), then you're paying $2.50 for every dollar over the luxury tax.

    Let's say they re-sign Clarkson for $14M, give someone the full MLE, and then sign 2 or 3 players to the minimum. You're looking at a salary of $145M or so, but a very significant tax bill, when revenues are going to be down league-wide. Whereas if they swapped Conley for Randle, and maybe also dumped Ed Davis, then they are comfortably under the luxury tax threshold.

    I still maintain that this season will be different. First round picks will be sold for the first time in a very long time due to cost-cutting, money-saving, and how terrible this draft is widely considered. Late 1st round picks are not going to be as valuable they may have been in past seasons. Early second round picks with no guaranteed money will likely be more valuable.
    Interesting take. Maybe the lack of fans due to Covid does create a unique need for them that is worth a late 1st in this draft...

    If it were to happen, I like the idea I read on here to package the 2 late picks together, if possible, to move further up the board for a Kira/Poku/Maxey...

  10. #5800
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    Sep 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKnicks View Post
    And if Frank is involved...

    Utah would love a young defensive PG/SG to play alongside Mitchell.

    Conley(34M) + pick23(1M)
    =
    Randle(19M) + Frank(6M) + pick38

    10M savings and an interesting bench.

    Mitchell
    Frank (Ingles)
    Bogdanovic (O'Nealy)
    Randle
    Gobert (Bradley)
    I'd be pissed if we traded Frank, I'm too invested in believing hes going to come around just for us to trade him now, lol.

  11. #5801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I mean, I basically agree. I think once Mitchell and Gobert's extensions kick in, they'll be very limited in how they can get better. This is basically how it goes with small market teams though.
    If we are talking under that assumption, you think Clarkson is of any real importance? I mean I mentioned him, and no one has ever said much positive about him. Donít think they just stay put, and let him walk?

    Also, why not just shop Gobert now then?

  12. #5802
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Iíd also keep in mind, do you think Gobert is getting a max deal? I doubt that..Also, they know leaning on DM that heavily will never work

    Iíd bet they roll as is, see where they end up, then make that choice
    I think hes too important to what that team does for them to cheap out on him.

    And it's not like utah can easily pull in free agents.

    But yeah, it would feel yucky to hand him that kind of money at the same time.

  13. #5803
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    If we are talking under that assumption, you think Clarkson is of any real importance? I mean I mentioned him, and no one has ever said much positive about him. Donít think they just stay put, and let him walk?

    Also, why not just shop Gobert now then?
    I think they like Clarkson a lot, and he played very well for them. The assumption has been that they would try to re-sign him, given that their bench was awful and he was really the only bright spot for that unit.

    I think if it is between Conley and Clarkson, they'd probably want Clarkson who they can sign more long term. But maybe that's not the case.

    As for Gobert, I think it would make a ton of sense to shop him. But I doubt they do. It's not like Utah is some FA destination, so they have a really good player who's fine with playing out his career in Utah, why mess with it.

  14. #5804
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    Jan 2019
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    1,635
    My whole problem with trading for Conley is the fact, he was banged up from the time the NBA resumed play till the second game of the First round of the 2019-20 playoffs. I didn't find him terribly effective at all. There were too many key times that Mitchell was waiting for the ball. Jamal Murray ate up Conley.

    IF the Jazz want the Knicks to take Conley then the Knicks should demand more than yet another late First Rounder in a weak draft.
    The Jazz should give the Knicks 3 future first rounders because getting rid of Conley would be a favor to the Jazz. Even with 3 future first rounders, none of them will be in the top 15 picks.

    I would keep Randle. Why? Because the Knicks can absorb both Conley and Randle, which will lead to a ridiculous amount of cap space.

  15. #5805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Detfink View Post
    My whole problem with trading for Conley is the fact, he was banged up from the time the NBA resumed play till the second game of the First round of the 2019-20 playoffs. I didn't find him terribly effective at all. There were too many key times that Mitchell was waiting for the ball. Jamal Murray ate up Conley.

    IF the Jazz want the Knicks to take Conley then the Knicks should demand more than yet another late First Rounder in a weak draft.
    The Jazz should give the Knicks 3 future first rounders because getting rid of Conley would be a favor to the Jazz. Even with 3 future first rounders, none of them will be in the top 15 picks.

    I would keep Randle. Why? Because the Knicks can absorb both Conley and Randle, which will lead to a ridiculous amount of cap space.
    Randle absolutely has to go. His teammates despise playing with him. RJ should take notes and learn how to pass as well because the shots he forced last yr were a joke as well. I digress..

    Nobody cares how effective Conley is or isn't. It's an addition by subtraction move. Trade Randle and get draft considerations for Conley, who only has a yr left on his deal. This means Conley steps in as the back-up or possible starter, Knicks release Payton, and they can now start Knox at PF or bring in an overpaid over-age stretch 4 like Bert or Gallo.
    Last edited by Bivory; 09-08-2020 at 08:19 AM.

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