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  1. #3541
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    These guys were were unheralded out of college and have older breakouts always seem to get underrated.

    Is he the most efficient player? No, but heís far from inefficient. Heíd definitely help us be a much better team IMO.

    Itís funny how the same people want LaMelo and heís FAR from a sure thing as a shooter.
    Ball has elite skills, ballhanding, vision, and IQ.

    and 32% is BAD, it's not just below average it's well below average. if you're shooting 32% you shouldn't be taking 6 three's a game sorry. he's not far from inefficient at all, he is below league average in efficiency and if you take away the FT's his eFG is really bad.

    It's all relative, you make it seem like we are saying that Spencer, Wood, FVV...etc.. are bad players, they aren't, but you throw out crazy high salaries for them. I think you said you were ok paying FVV & Wood $50m per year even.

  2. #3542
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Ball has elite skills, ballhanding, vision, and IQ.

    and 32% is BAD, it's not just below average it's well below average. if you're shooting 32% you shouldn't be taking 6 three's a game sorry. he's not far from inefficient at all, he is below league average in efficiency and if you take away the FT's his eFG is really bad.

    It's all relative, you make it seem like we are saying that Spencer, Wood, FVV...etc.. are bad players, they aren't, but you throw out crazy high salaries for them. I think you said you were ok paying FVV & Wood $50m per year even.
    Tell Luka to stop taking 9 3s a game then.

    Spencerís ball-handling is elite too IMO. I havenít watched him enough to know whether he has elite vision or IQ.

    As great as some of LaMeloís passes are, he takes plenty of selfish low-percentage, low-quality shots early in the shot-clock. So his passing IQ may be elite, but I wouldnít say his overall IQ is. At least not yet. That will probably change as he matures, maybe it wonít.

    You canít just ďtake awayĒ his FTs. Thatís a big part of his offensive game. Not turning the ball over is a form of efficiency as well. ORtg takes all of this into account which is why itís my go-to offensive stat.

  3. #3543
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    Itís funny how much people lock in on percentage. If he was at say 34% instead of 31%, people would feel better. That would mean fractions of a 3 more a game. In some cases, we use low percentage/high volume as a plus, because at least heís a threat to shoot. In others, he shoots too much and isnít good at it.

  4. #3544
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    Itís funny how much people lock in on percentage. If he was at say 34% instead of 31%, people would feel better. That would mean fractions of a 3 more a game. In some cases, we use low percentage/high volume as a plus, because at least heís a threat to shoot. In others, he shoots too much and isnít good at it.
    Exactly. Not to mention he WAS 34% from 3 last year. Heís not some terrible shooter like Payton is.

    Heís extremely dangerous getting to the rim.

  5. #3545
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    I canít understand how Spencer Dinwiddie is easily worth 20+ million but RJ Barrett is some huge disappointment as a rookie...

  6. #3546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I canít understand how Spencer Dinwiddie is easily worth 20+ million but RJ Barrett is some huge disappointment as a rookie...
    Not sure how they are related at all. They play different positions and have totally different responsibilities.

  7. #3547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I canít understand how Spencer Dinwiddie is easily worth 20+ million but RJ Barrett is some huge disappointment as a rookie...
    I donít think RJ was a huge disappointment but I also donít see what one opinion has to do with the other?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  8. #3548
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Not sure how they are related at all. They play different positions and have totally different responsibilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I donít think RJ was a huge disappointment but I also donít see what one opinion has to do with the other?


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    I see their shot profiles as somewhat similar. Poor long-range shooters that rely heavily on getting into the paint and drawing fouls. Spencer probably took fewer C&S 3s than RJ admittedly, but unclear why people would be so down on RJ based on his shooting #s at just 18.

    A slight uptick in efficiency at the rim and in his 3 point and FT percentages would put him right in line with Dinwiddie who people seem to hold in high regard here. And not sure why itís unreasonable to suggest he would improve in that manner going forward.

    For reference this year:

    Spencer shot 42% from the field, 31% from 3, eFG% of 48, and TS% of 54.

    RJ shot 40% from the field, 32% from 3, eFG% of 45, and TS of 48.

  9. #3549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I see their shot profiles as somewhat similar. Poor long-range shooters that rely heavily on getting into the paint and drawing fouls. Spencer probably took fewer C&S 3s than RJ admittedly, but unclear why people would be so down on RJ based on his shooting #s at just 18.

    A slight uptick in efficiency at the rim and in his 3 point and FT percentages would put him right in line with Dinwiddie who people seem to hold in high regard here. And not sure why itís unreasonable to suggest he would improve in that manner going forward.

    For reference this year:

    Spencer shot 42% from the field, 31% from 3, eFG% of 48, and TS% of 54.

    RJ shot 40% from the field, 32% from 3, eFG% of 45, and TS of 48.
    I think Stuna has been unduly harsh on Barrett. I donít think he is going to be a star but I was actually encouraged by his year. That said him and Dinwiddie arenít really comparable players


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
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  10. #3550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    I see their shot profiles as somewhat similar. Poor long-range shooters that rely heavily on getting into the paint and drawing fouls. Spencer probably took fewer C&S 3s than RJ admittedly, but unclear why people would be so down on RJ based on his shooting #s at just 18.

    A slight uptick in efficiency at the rim and in his 3 point and FT percentages would put him right in line with Dinwiddie who people seem to hold in high regard here. And not sure why itís unreasonable to suggest he would improve in that manner going forward.

    For reference this year:

    Spencer shot 42% from the field, 31% from 3, eFG% of 48, and TS% of 54.

    RJ shot 40% from the field, 32% from 3, eFG% of 45, and TS of 48.
    Yeah thatís the difference. Spencer is a playmaker and creator whoís job is to initiate the offense by creating for himself and others. This includes shooting pullup 3s off the dribble.

    RJ has not shown the ability to create very well off the dribble unless heís going straight to the rim. He doesnít have the handle, blow-by speed, or fluidity that Spencer has.

    Iím not sure if RJ can ever be a primary ball-handler like Spencer has shown. Time is on RJís side though.

    Also itís worth pointing out that Spencer was more efficient last year shooting 44% from the field, 34% from 3, eFG% of 52%, and TS% of 58%. Those numbers are efficient to go along with his PG play.

    Spencer has become a good starting PG IMO. Like I said he is worth $20M+ easily to me. If we got 2 sharpshooters around him, RJ, and Mitch, it could still work. Especially if RJ improves his shot some.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 07-01-2020 at 09:11 PM.

  11. #3551
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Tell Luka to stop taking 9 3s a game then.

    Spencerís ball-handling is elite too IMO. I havenít watched him enough to know whether he has elite vision or IQ.

    As great as some of LaMeloís passes are, he takes plenty of selfish low-percentage, low-quality shots early in the shot-clock. So his passing IQ may be elite, but I wouldnít say his overall IQ is. At least not yet. That will probably change as he matures, maybe it wonít.

    You canít just ďtake awayĒ his FTs. Thatís a big part of his offensive game. Not turning the ball over is a form of efficiency as well. ORtg takes all of this into account which is why itís my go-to offensive stat.
    Stop with the ortg like itís the greatest stat ever. Itís super overrated. Yeah Spencer can ball but 20
    Mill for him? If we wasted our cap on Spencer/Fvv/Wood weíd be ****ed for another 5 years unless RJ becomes a superstar and Mitch becomes gobert lol luka has bad shot selection but thereís a HUGE difference between him and Spencer. Luka is a superstar whoís elite at pretty much everything but shooting and defense. But heís so good at the other stuff he does on offense that you can live with his bad 3s. Heís a better shooter. Iím not going to argue about Lamelos bad shot selection but heís 18 years old playing overseas in a menís league vs Spencer whoís what 30? Lol Lamelo can be coached itís probably too late for Spencer.
    Last edited by xxplayerxx23; 07-01-2020 at 09:28 PM.
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  12. #3552
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Yeah thatís the difference. Spencer is a playmaker and creator whoís job is to initiate the offense by creating for himself and others. This includes shooting pullup 3s off the dribble.

    RJ has not shown the ability to create very well off the dribble unless heís going straight to the rim. He doesnít have the handle, blow-by speed, or fluidity that Spencer has.

    Iím not sure if RJ can ever be a primary ball-handler like Spencer has shown. Time is on RJís side though.

    Also itís worth pointing out that Spencer was more efficient last year shooting 44% from the field, 34% from 3, eFG% of 52%, and TS% of 58%. Those numbers are efficient to go along with his PG play.

    Spencer has become a good starting PG IMO. Like I said he is worth $20M+ easily to me. If we got 2 sharpshooters around him, RJ, and Mitch, it could still work. Especially if RJ improves his shot some.
    If RJ was awful as a rookie then Spencer stinks. Canít have it both ways. Spencer has Levert who was a good ball handler as well. Itís not like Spencer is the only ball handler.
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  13. #3553
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Yeah thatís the difference. Spencer is a playmaker and creator whoís job is to initiate the offense by creating for himself and others. This includes shooting pullup 3s off the dribble.

    RJ has not shown the ability to create very well off the dribble unless heís going straight to the rim. He doesnít have the handle, blow-by speed, or fluidity that Spencer has.

    Iím not sure if RJ can ever be a primary ball-handler like Spencer has shown. Time is on RJís side though.

    Also itís worth pointing out that Spencer was more efficient last year shooting 44% from the field, 34% from 3, eFG% of 52%, and TS% of 58%. Those numbers are efficient to go along with his PG play.

    Spencer has become a good starting PG IMO. Like I said he is worth $20M+ easily to me. If we got 2 sharpshooters around him, RJ, and Mitch, it could still work. Especially if RJ improves his shot some.
    Yeah my only point was that itís foolish to call RJ a huge disappointment just because of his subpar shooting numbers when plenty of good players have the same issues.

    And I donít see RJís shooting as that far off from Dinwiddie, especially when you consider RJ is 18 and Dinwiddie is in his 7th season.

  14. #3554
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxplayerxx23 View Post
    Stop with the ortg like itís the greatest stat ever. Itís super overrated. Yeah Spencer can ball but 20
    Mill for him? If we wasted our cap on Spencer/Fvv/Wood weíd be ****ed for another 5 years unless RJ becomes a superstar and Mitch becomes gobert lol luka has bad shot selection but thereís a HUGE difference between him and Spencer. Luka is a superstar whoís elite at pretty much everything but shooting and defense. But heís so good at the other stuff he does on offense that you can live with his bad 3s. Heís a better shooter. Iím not going to argue about Lamelos bad shot selection but heís 18 years old playing overseas in a menís league vs Spencer whoís what 30? Lol Lamelo can be coached itís probably too late for Spencer.
    Why is it super overrated?

    $20M isnít a lot of money anymore. Itís not like I said to give Spencer the max. If we could get him for less, thatís amazing. Heís not a FA though so we would have to deal for him. Heís only 26 years old still.

    But if we did get Dinwiddie, FVV, and Wood this team could be a problem actually. FVV and Dinwiddie compliment each other very well because Dinwiddie has SG size. Both guys can play on or off-ball.

    Wood has unlimited upside and is extremely efficient and athletic.

    Mitch
    Wood
    Barrett
    Dinwiddie
    FVV

    If you donít think RJ is going to be a baller, then trade him. It doesnít make sense to build an entire roster around one player who has shown to have a flawed skillset up to this point. Just get talent.

    Thatís not even factoring in our draft pick. This roster wouldnít be my #1 option (I never mentioned getting both FVV and Spencer), but it would still be far and away one of the best rosters that we have had in long time. These guys are all very good players.

  15. #3555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Yeah my only point was that itís foolish to call RJ a huge disappointment just because of his subpar shooting numbers when plenty of good players have the same issues.

    And I donít see RJís shooting as that far off from Dinwiddie, especially when you consider RJ is 18 and Dinwiddie is in his 7th season.
    Well I mean thatís not the only reason. His defense is nothing to write home about and Iím not sure heís a guy who will impact games in other ways outside of scoring. Dinwiddieís PG skills adds to his value.

    If we can allow RJ to develop as more of primary ballhandler, his value will increase exponentially. Thatís where I can see a PG like Cole being a good fit since he can play more off-ball too.

    As for RJís shot, Iím just not confident in it because heís awful from the FT line. His shot doesnít look fluid or natural to me.

    Dinwiddieís not a great shooter, but at least heís always been an above average FT shooter (college too). He takes a lot of difficult shots which can partially explain some of his shooting numbers. This ability helps down the stretch in the clutch.

    RJ is 20 btw, but time is definitely on his side. Iím hoping to see some substantial improvement in Year 2. Expectations should be high for a Top 3 pick. He needs to prove that he was worthy of the selection.

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