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  1. #2506
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    Jrue>>>FVV.
    Spurs Sim league
    2 time Champion 653-331

  2. #2507
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    New 2019-20 All NBA Trade Ideas Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xxplayerxx23 View Post
    Jrue>>>FVV.
    They are close. Jrue is a lockdown defender, but I think FVV is a better PG who could put up more volume numbers on a different team. Jrue has played mostly SG over the last 3 years. The point is that they are comparable so itís not ridiculous to think FVV can get similar money.

  3. #2508
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    They are close. Jrue is a lockdown defender, but I think FVV is a better PG who could put up more volume numbers on a different team. Jrue has played mostly SG over the last 3 years. The point is that they are comparable so itís not ridiculous to think FVV can get similar money.
    oh lord, they are not even remotely close. Jrue is a 20/7/5 guy in this league AND elite defense out of the PG position. FVV is more of a pesky defender but he's nowhere near Jrue's all around game.

    FVV is more of a sparkplug player, he's not a starting PG.

  4. #2509
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    New 2019-20 All NBA Trade Ideas Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    oh lord, they are not even remotely close. Jrue is a 20/7/5 guy in this league AND elite defense out of the PG position. FVV is more of a pesky defender but he's nowhere near Jrue's all around game.

    FVV is more of a sparkplug player, he's not a starting PG.
    Jrue has also been playing SG the last 3 seasons and has thrived in this new role. But Iím not really comparing them right now. I was comparing them when Jrue signed his extension.

    Jrue has never averaged more than 17.7 PPG as a starting PG. Before switching to SG, Jrueís career ORtg was 102 with a .515 TS%. Those are poor numbers.

    FVV is a pesky and smart defender with active hands. If heís good enough to be a starting SG on Toronto, heís definitely good enough to be a starting PG on many teams in the NBA, especially us.


  5. #2510
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    Young, Fvv is a good player, he's not going to move the dial as much as you think unless there are multi signing in the next two years or we luck out big time in the draft.

    Jrue is exactly what you said a lock down defender, that is huge, pesky vs lock down are not in the same vocabulary for me.

    Jrue is a proven scorer for years and moves the ball really well......I don't have them in the same category at all.

    Let's draft our PG and I still like RJ at the two for now, he's not ready for the three quite yet if ever, lets take advantage of his strengths and let him grow there, another Wade hopefully

    I'd take FVV but at the right price, I'd take Wood for sure but I'm like the athletic right now, he has not earned a dime more than 10-12m that is a worth while risk, higher is all risk on the team........he thinks he's that good then take a player option in year three and go for it.

  6. #2511
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    New 2019-20 All NBA Trade Ideas Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    Young, Fvv is a good player, he's not going to move the dial as much as you think unless there are multi signing in the next two years or we luck out big time in the draft.

    Jrue is exactly what you said a lock down defender, that is huge, pesky vs lock down are not in the same vocabulary for me.

    Jrue is a proven scorer for years and moves the ball really well......I don't have them in the same category at all.

    Let's draft our PG and I still like RJ at the two for now, he's not ready for the three quite yet if ever, lets take advantage of his strengths and let him grow there, another Wade hopefully

    I'd take FVV but at the right price, I'd take Wood for sure but I'm like the athletic right now, he has not earned a dime more than 10-12m that is a worth while risk, higher is all risk on the team........he thinks he's that good then take a player option in year three and go for it.
    I mean that basically goes for anyone we sign. We canít just sign one player and expect everything to change. Even the Lakers with LeBron (I know he struggled a bit with injury) missed the playoffs last year because he had a weak supporting cast.

    Jrue is better than FVV defensively for sure, but FVV is a better offensive player than Jrue was when signed his contract. Jrue is having his best offensive seasons playing SG during his age 27-29 seasons.

    These were Jrueís numbers as 25 year old before signing his extension on a team that just went 30-52:

    16.8 PTS, 3.0 REB, 6.0 AST, 2.6 TOV, 1.4 STL, 52.9 TS%, 105 ORtg, 28.9 USG%

    vs. FVV this season at age 25 as well:

    17.6 PTS, 3.8 REB, 6.6 AST, 2.3 TOV, 1.9 STL, 54.6 TS%, 111 ORtg, 22.0 USG%

    The numbers clearly show FVV is better offensively and is a much better 3PT shooter. FVV is entering his age 26 season and is a good, tough defender. We use words like pesky because of his size, but heís strong and doesnít back down even against much bigger players. I donít see how FVV getting a similar kind of deal in a weak FA market is so outrageous. Heís a clutch, winning player who would help make this team a lot better.

    I think RJ is more than ready to play the 3. His size and length is a great fit for the position in todayís NBA. He has struggled guarding smaller guards and his offensive skillset fits much better at the 3.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 05-25-2020 at 11:21 PM.

  7. #2512
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    Jrue signed his $26m per year extension at 27 and was putting up 19/6/5 on 49% from the field when he signed it.

    Jrue at $26m isn't a great contract either but you keep bringing up how all these PG's really play SG now. Guys like Jrue, Mitchell, Harden...etc... well that's the thing, they offer versatility and versatility is the name of today's game. FVV doesn't offer that, he's a small PG and no matter how pesky he is he'll always be limited by his size defensively.

    if you're going to pay a guy $20-25m they need to be either elite or close to at their position, not top 20-25, or be able to play multiple positions.

  8. #2513
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Jrue signed his $26m per year extension at 27 and was putting up 19/6/5 on 49% from the field when he signed it.

    Jrue at $26m isn't a great contract either but you keep bringing up how all these PG's really play SG now. Guys like Jrue, Mitchell, Harden...etc... well that's the thing, they offer versatility and versatility is the name of today's game. FVV doesn't offer that, he's a small PG and no matter how pesky he is he'll always be limited by his size defensively.

    if you're going to pay a guy $20-25m they need to be either elite or close to at their position, not top 20-25, or be able to play multiple positions.
    I donít disagree. But define elite. Because to me, elite means top 5. Thereís a lot of guys that arenít close to that level, that make that kind of money. If you donít pay up, you wonít get many good players. And you need to get a few good players before you can get others

    I wouldnít go a hair over 20 though..

  9. #2514
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    there really isnt much that makes sense for us in FAgency. Paying close to half the cap to FVV & Wood would be like the Pistons signing Villanueva and Ben Gordon some years back. Solid players but more of desperation signings that really put them in purgatory.

    The only guys worth $20m are Beasely or Gallo.

  10. #2515
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyOne View Post
    I donít disagree. But define elite. Because to me, elite means top 5. Thereís a lot of guys that arenít close to that level, that make that kind of money. If you donít pay up, you wonít get many good players. And you need to get a few good players before you can get others

    I wouldnít go a hair over 20 though..
    Forget elite he's not even top 15 at his position AND can only play 1 position, it's a double whammy. You need versatility, $20m to a guy that can only play one position, and isn't even top 15 at that position is a huge waste IMO.

    FVV had a career year too, you're buying high off a shortened 48 game season. He's not going to have a great team and system in place here. Truth be told I don't think he's even a legit starting PG, he''s more a guy that could start on some teams, a situational starter.

  11. #2516
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Forget elite he's not even top 15 at his position AND can only play 1 position, it's a double whammy. You need versatility, $20m to a guy that can only play one position, and isn't even top 15 at that position is a huge waste IMO.

    FVV had a career year too, you're buying high off a shortened 48 game season. He's not going to have a great team and system in place here. Truth be told I don't think he's even a legit starting PG, he''s more a guy that could start on some teams, a situational starter.
    I do think pay is position-based too. Starting caliber PGs get paid. If he got 20, that would put him 14th highest paid at the moment, itís not terrible.

    Itís like Football. QBs get paid a ton compared to other positions

  12. #2517
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    New 2019-20 All NBA Trade Ideas Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Jrue signed his $26m per year extension at 27 and was putting up 19/6/5 on 49% from the field when he signed it.

    Jrue at $26m isn't a great contract either but you keep bringing up how all these PG's really play SG now. Guys like Jrue, Mitchell, Harden...etc... well that's the thing, they offer versatility and versatility is the name of today's game. FVV doesn't offer that, he's a small PG and no matter how pesky he is he'll always be limited by his size defensively.

    if you're going to pay a guy $20-25m they need to be either elite or close to at their position, not top 20-25, or be able to play multiple positions.
    I was off by a year my mistake, but your numbers arenít accurate. Those are the numbers he put up in his first season of the extension.

    His season before the extension was 15.4 PTS, 3.9 REB, 7.3 AST, 53.2 TS%, and 104 ORtg. FVVís numbers are better across the board, and on a very good team where his playing time was earned.

    As long as FVV is playing PG and guarding PGs primarily, it doesnít matter really matter that much how switchable he is. Being switchable doesnít mean youíre a good defender (Jrue is great, just a general statement) and FVV is by all measures a good defender.

    Lets be honest, 20-25M is nothing crazy in todayís game. Itís time we start realizing that. If youíre spending money you need to make sure that itís a good fit and that you fill multiple needs. FVV fills multiple needs: Starting PG, 3PT shooter, and defense and isnít ball dominant to the point where RJ canít get his touches to develop properly.

    At worst, FVV is somewhere between 15-20, thereís no way heís in the bottom 10 in the league for PGs.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 05-26-2020 at 09:18 AM.

  13. #2518
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Forget elite he's not even top 15 at his position AND can only play 1 position, it's a double whammy. You need versatility, $20m to a guy that can only play one position, and isn't even top 15 at that position is a huge waste IMO.

    FVV had a career year too, you're buying high off a shortened 48 game season. He's not going to have a great team and system in place here. Truth be told I don't think he's even a legit starting PG, he''s more a guy that could start on some teams, a situational starter.
    Well Toronto thinks heís good enough to be their starting SG and play 36 minutes a night, so that tells me that FVV is legit. Honestly it makes it more impressive that heís putting up these numbers with bigger defenders on him. Heís a gritty team player that just knows how to win. So even though heís lacking in size, heís showing that he is versatile enough to not embarrass himself as a SG.

  14. #2519
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Well Toronto thinks heís good enough to be their starting SG and play 36 minutes a night, so that tells me that FVV is legit. Honestly it makes it more impressive that heís putting up these numbers with bigger defenders on him. Heís a gritty team player that just knows how to win. So even though heís lacking in size, heís showing that he is versatile enough to not embarrass himself as a SG.
    great teams get the best out of guys, anyway nothing's going to change your mind on FVV or Wood being building blocks worth mega bucks so we'll just have to see.

  15. #2520
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    You don't spend 20mill plus unless you already have a stud or two. I think it's as simple as that.

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