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  1. #16
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    The only thing I donít like about our staff is it seems like itís filled with a bunch of unknown coaches. It saying itís a bad thing but I do feel like it would be beneficial to have some known vet type coaches.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigCheese12 View Post
    The only thing I donít like about our staff is it seems like itís filled with a bunch of unknown coaches. It saying itís a bad thing but I do feel like it would be beneficial to have some known vet type coaches.
    when Holmgren took over in GB he had nothing but who dat coaches and assistants. the experienced ones seem to be recycled as assistant offensive or defensive coordinators.

  3. #18
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    Assistants are badicslly impossible to judge. Not sure what the expectations should have been for the wr coach. He had adams, a 5th round pick and a bunch of undrafted guys. Not exactly murders row there. That being said, we aren't in the building. Maybe his style didnt jive with lafluer and the rest of the coaches or maybe he was just a bad coach regardless of talent.

    Same thing when first year coaches are fired. I typically think it's dumb to fire first year coaches, but sometimes guys just aren't cut out for the job and it's obvious right away. Might as well cut ties right away.

  4. #19
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    MVS plays as soft as baby ****. Dude needs his nuts to drop, if they donít, heís gonna be out of the league real quick.

    Attack the ball, put your body on the line, and be confident in your ability man.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by n8ghee View Post
    MVS plays as soft as baby ****. Dude needs his nuts to drop, if they donít, heís gonna be out of the league real quick.

    Attack the ball, put your body on the line, and be confident in your ability man
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The thing with him is he had that one really nice game mid season then basically disappeared for the rest of the year.

  6. #21
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    I would argue that Whitted was fired because even though he had Davante and a collection of band-aids, some of those band-aids have looked at least serviceable in the 3-5 types IE MVS went from promising late-round steal to inconsistent, but promising. MVS was irrelevant in the second half. Geronimo went from fringe 2-3 guy to almost irrelevant. Kumerow made no progress. The only success you could maybe state would have been Lazard. Is that all on the coordinator no, but when you're a team with a window, you don't have time to see if it was the coordinator's fault. If Green Bay was re-building in the traditional sense Alvis Whitted likely remains. I very much expect a guy with a track record of sort to be hired and maybe an OLB like approach to this off-season IE I wouldn't be shocked to see a splash FA and early draft capital invested to fix the issue. Not speculating on who the guy will be but Sanjay Lal sounds like the most interesting option if they can convince him to come north. He's had work with some interesting names before. If the hiring of Gray is indicative of anything a veteran guy like Lal makes a ton of sense. Both finalists for the DB coach were somewhat established.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I would argue that Whitted was fired because even though he had Davante and a collection of band-aids, some of those band-aids have looked at least serviceable in the 3-5 types IE MVS went from promising late-round steal to inconsistent, but promising. MVS was irrelevant in the second half. Geronimo went from fringe 2-3 guy to almost irrelevant. Kumerow made no progress. The only success you could maybe state would have been Lazard. Is that all on the coordinator no, but when you're a team with a window, you don't have time to see if it was the coordinator's fault. If Green Bay was re-building in the traditional sense Alvis Whitted likely remains. I very much expect a guy with a track record of sort to be hired and maybe an OLB like approach to this off-season IE I wouldn't be shocked to see a splash FA and early draft capital invested to fix the issue. Not speculating on who the guy will be but Sanjay Lal sounds like the most interesting option if they can convince him to come north. He's had work with some interesting names before. If the hiring of Gray is indicative of anything a veteran guy like Lal makes a ton of sense. Both finalists for the DB coach were somewhat established.
    thanks for this IRMIN. this is not a bait or gotcha question. how much of the lack of success or failure in the passing game was on Rodgers? i hear Jordy talking about how to connect with Aaron on and off the field. i don't think MVS ever connected with Rodgers. i think Allison, Kumerow and certainly Devante has and that is why Rodgers kept throwing to those guys, certainly Allison despite his stone hands. i am not saying our WR corp outside Adams is all stars, far from it but Rodgers just did not pull the trigger despite guys being open and for that reason i feel like Whitted was a fall guy. you are very much correct (that after the Oakland game, IMO) the passing game turned. if Green Bay is able to land a big FA WR and draft some early guys i just am not convinced it can be that easy. i am for bringing in new talent, but i say bring in new WR's and a new rookie QB.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by alabastertubby View Post
    thanks for this IRMIN. this is not a bait or gotcha question. how much of the lack of success or failure in the passing game was on Rodgers? i hear Jordy talking about how to connect with Aaron on and off the field. i don't think MVS ever connected with Rodgers. i think Allison, Kumerow and certainly Devante has and that is why Rodgers kept throwing to those guys, certainly Allison despite his stone hands. i am not saying our WR corp outside Adams is all stars, far from it but Rodgers just did not pull the trigger despite guys being open and for that reason i feel like Whitted was a fall guy. you are very much correct (that after the Oakland game, IMO) the passing game turned. if Green Bay is able to land a big FA WR and draft some early guys i just am not convinced it can be that easy. i am for bringing in new talent, but i say bring in new WR's and a new rookie QB.
    I would argue that Rodgers and Nelson connected on a level that is unexplainable. I think you're starting to see some of that connection between Rodgers and Adams, but I would make the argument there is a development of a connection between Rodgers and Lazard, which seemed evident, and part of his success.

    A few things though I don't think the disconnect was honestly a lack of effort by Rodgers. He hyped the guy up all through the camp, but then after the Eagles game, there was an apparent lack of trust is seemed like. His targets dropped by 20. Allen Lazard became the far more reliable target. Take out the SF game where no one on offense was clicking Rodgers targeted Lazard 4-5 times a game where from then on it was rare MVS was targeted more than once. Against Philly MVS was the one who didn't haul in the game-winning TD and being the #1 did nothing against Dallas. Not all his fault, but I think trust was lost and other guys simply gained his trust. MVS in the speed of the game may have been overlooked. He went back to him finally in the last week and was targeted 7 times only to haul in 2 catches, and was irrelevant in the playoffs.

    He spread the ball to MVS, Allison, and Lazard almost equally if you look at the end of year totals, I think it really boiled down to either a bunch of guys producing at their best or a situation where guys underperformed. MVS I think is far from done, but almost looked like he and maybe Allison regressed. Sophomore slump or not, they needed the guy to be at least a reliable #3 and sometimes he was nowhere to be found. I would more guys than not regressed from what was expected even for a band of late rounder-undrafted.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I would argue that Rodgers and Nelson connected on a level that is unexplainable. I think you're starting to see some of that connection between Rodgers and Adams, but I would make the argument there is a development of a connection between Rodgers and Lazard, which seemed evident, and part of his success.

    A few things though I don't think the disconnect was honestly a lack of effort by Rodgers. He hyped the guy up all through the camp, but then after the Eagles game, there was an apparent lack of trust is seemed like. His targets dropped by 20. Allen Lazard became the far more reliable target. Take out the SF game where no one on offense was clicking Rodgers targeted Lazard 4-5 times a game where from then on it was rare MVS was targeted more than once. Against Philly MVS was the one who didn't haul in the game-winning TD and being the #1 did nothing against Dallas. Not all his fault, but I think trust was lost and other guys simply gained his trust. MVS in the speed of the game may have been overlooked. He went back to him finally in the last week and was targeted 7 times only to haul in 2 catches, and was irrelevant in the playoffs.

    He spread the ball to MVS, Allison, and Lazard almost equally if you look at the end of year totals, I think it really boiled down to either a bunch of guys producing at their best or a situation where guys underperformed. MVS I think is far from done, but almost looked like he and maybe Allison regressed. Sophomore slump or not, they needed the guy to be at least a reliable #3 and sometimes he was nowhere to be found. I would more guys than not regressed from what was expected even for a band of late rounder-undrafted.
    thanks IRNMIN.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I would argue that Rodgers and Nelson connected on a level that is unexplainable. I think you're starting to see some of that connection between Rodgers and Adams, but I would make the argument there is a development of a connection between Rodgers and Lazard, which seemed evident, and part of his success.

    A few things though I don't think the disconnect was honestly a lack of effort by Rodgers. He hyped the guy up all through the camp, but then after the Eagles game, there was an apparent lack of trust is seemed like. His targets dropped by 20. Allen Lazard became the far more reliable target. Take out the SF game where no one on offense was clicking Rodgers targeted Lazard 4-5 times a game where from then on it was rare MVS was targeted more than once. Against Philly MVS was the one who didn't haul in the game-winning TD and being the #1 did nothing against Dallas. Not all his fault, but I think trust was lost and other guys simply gained his trust. MVS in the speed of the game may have been overlooked. He went back to him finally in the last week and was targeted 7 times only to haul in 2 catches, and was irrelevant in the playoffs.

    He spread the ball to MVS, Allison, and Lazard almost equally if you look at the end of year totals, I think it really boiled down to either a bunch of guys producing at their best or a situation where guys underperformed. MVS I think is far from done, but almost looked like he and maybe Allison regressed. Sophomore slump or not, they needed the guy to be at least a reliable #3 and sometimes he was nowhere to be found. I would more guys than not regressed from what was expected even for a band of late rounder-undrafted.
    Some of it is on rodgers though too. Mvs had the one big drop that was probably the final nail in the coffin on the year (I don't even remember who it was against) but Rodgers was like 2 of 10 in even getting the ball close to MVS on deep routes. And I know I saw it more last year than this year partially because of snaps played, but last year there were definitely times MVS was open and Rodgers didnt let it fly.

    MVS's ball skills aren't great. One of the underrated parts of jordy nelson being a good deep threat is how well he tracked the ball. Not every perfect looking throw is a perfect throw. Some of that is jordy adjusting while the ball is in the air. Mvs isn't as good at that. But Rodgers still has to do a better job of putting it near MVS. That's his game. Even almost getting a deep completion scares the defense. But you can't be off by 7 yards. And as the roster is currently constructed, mvs is the only real deep threat we have. Adams can run some. Lazard can win jumo balls. But mvs is the only guy that a single high safety takes a step or two back on.

    Maybe we draft a deep threat. But some of the guys I've seen mocked aren't really full deep threats. And if that's the case, it's on both of them to figure it out. Like we've all said, if Rodgers wants to earn a bunch of money and have a passable defense, he's going to need to connect with guys like mvs. You're not finding many guys with his athleticism who also have great ball skills in the later rounds. And were going to need our #3s, #4s and #5s to be late round guys.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Some of it is on rodgers though too. Mvs had the one big drop that was probably the final nail in the coffin on the year (I don't even remember who it was against) but Rodgers was like 2 of 10 in even getting the ball close to MVS on deep routes. And I know I saw it more last year than this year partially because of snaps played, but last year there were definitely times MVS was open and Rodgers didnt let it fly.

    MVS's ball skills aren't great. One of the underrated parts of jordy nelson being a good deep threat is how well he tracked the ball. Not every perfect looking throw is a perfect throw. Some of that is jordy adjusting while the ball is in the air. Mvs isn't as good at that. But Rodgers still has to do a better job of putting it near MVS. That's his game. Even almost getting a deep completion scares the defense. But you can't be off by 7 yards. And as the roster is currently constructed, mvs is the only real deep threat we have. Adams can run some. Lazard can win jumo balls. But mvs is the only guy that a single high safety takes a step or two back on.

    Maybe we draft a deep threat. But some of the guys I've seen mocked aren't really full deep threats. And if that's the case, it's on both of them to figure it out. Like we've all said, if Rodgers wants to earn a bunch of money and have a passable defense, he's going to need to connect with guys like mvs. You're not finding many guys with his athleticism who also have great ball skills in the later rounds. And were going to need our #3s, #4s and #5s to be late round guys.
    I won't deny this that there were times he was open, but bottom line MVS was catching about 52% the year before and fell to 46% of those thrown to him. Though not all his fault Lazard was catching 67%, Allison 61%, Kumerow 57%, Graham 63%, Jones 72%, Williams 86%, Lewis 78.9%. 46% just isn't going to cut it, MVS has the potential to be an absolute stud if he could catch the dang ball at even 57%. Rodgers may have over thrown him a few time, but when the next worst catch % of players getting significant time is 10% higher he's got to look in the mirror and buckle down this off-season. His playing time dropped to which seems coaches were less comfortable with him. He needs to work on a lot this off-season.

    The team has to get a vet and maybe a high pick this year in my view. Adams and Lazard are the only two receivers I would save have all but locked in a spot. St. Brown likely takes a spot. I'm not giving up on MVS, but they need someone there so he's not the "guy" allow him time to develop. There are plenty of players who can develop deep threat ability Jordy and Jennings were both sub 4.5 guys and were excellent deep threats because they could do other things besides use their speed. If MVS can learn some of those things he could be great. Jefferson from LSU looks like an ideal fit, but I digress.

    Whoever the next WR coach hire is though I think they are going to have to be a strong developmental background which is why I think guys like Dennis Simmons, Sanjay Lal make sense. I've seen a few other names tossed out there including former players, but don't those listed actually have interest in coaching.

  12. #27
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    MVS average target air yards was a full 3 yards higher than the next highest guy on that list and 6 yards higher than almost all of the rest of the guys on the list. So he very much was targeted on downfield throws more so than short to intermediate throws, which absolutely has something to do with low catch percentage. Allison had more drops on a similar number of targets.

    I'm not arguing he doesnt need work but Rodgers did him no favors either. Rodgers has struggled to throw the deep ball and I think mvs has been one of the guys hurt the most by that. Anyone who watched the season would agree the biggest weakness for rodgers was the deep ball. So it would stand to reason the guy who had the deepest air yards per target would have a pretty low catch rate.

  13. #28
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    Packers finalize their staff by promoting Luke Getsy who will remain as QB coach, but will have a role with the WRs. They hired Butch Barry to help develop OL, which means to me I'd expect some OL picks. Get some help there developing guys. They hired Jason Vrable as the WR coach.

    Vrable was an offensive assistant for the Packers last season. Heíll now be the primary coach for a position expected to undergo a significant change this offseason.

    Interesting move I was expecting a more seasoned WR coach, but we will see how this goes. I like involving Getsy in the whole passing game. He was the one who helped in Nelson, Adams, and Cobbs development if I'm not mistaken. Maybe not Nelson I'll double check.

  14. #29
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    Getsy was a wr coach in 2016 and 2017, and quality control prior to that. So maybe he gets some adams credit but that's maybe it. Not saying he's a bad coach. Rodgers loves him and our wr talent pool has been weak, so it's hard to blame him, but I guess I'm not sure how good he is.

  15. #30
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    Ah, well then not sure what the appeal for the move was, unless it was simply a move of different philosophies and the move meshes the plan better. We shall have to see how it pans out. Vrable should have the luxury of getting our in inheriting Adams, Lazard, and maybe a few draft picks one which should be high.

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