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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by stejay View Post
    Schilling, Bonds and Clemens should be making reservations for Cooperstown this Summer, yet they are still waiting. Its ridiculous
    dont use peds

    shillings that is a different story

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    dont use peds

    shillings that is a different story
    Don't have opinions that other people dislike?

  3. #63
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman View Post
    If the writers that didn't vote for these guys had 10 guys on his/her ballot, I have no problem with the way they voted.
    It has been said, that Larry Walker needs to loan that shirt to Curt Schilling next year.
    What 10 guys were better than:

    Schmidt - https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...hof_1995.shtml

    Brett and Ryan - https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...#all_hof_BBWAA

    Carlton - https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...#all_hof_BBWAA

    Reggie - https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...#all_hof_BBWAA

    Carew - https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...#all_hof_BBWAA

  4. #64
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    Jul 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by stejay View Post
    Schilling, Bonds and Clemens should be making reservations for Cooperstown this Summer, yet they are still waiting. Its ridiculous
    Don't know about Schilling, but I hope Bonds and Clemens never get in. I just don't understand why society today is ok with cheating and lying. And I don't care about the "everybody was doing it excuse". First, I don't believe that, and then, even if that was the case then no one from that time should get in. But you are going to have a hard time convincing me someone like Maddux was using performance enhancing drugs during that time of cheating in baseball. If someone like Rose can be out of the HOF for all these years for betting I do not see how anyone who cheated to enhance their ability should be let in.

  5. #65
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    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Don't know about Schilling, but I hope Bonds and Clemens never get in. I just don't understand why society today is ok with cheating and lying. And I don't care about the "everybody was doing it excuse". First, I don't believe that, and then, even if that was the case then no one from that time should get in. But you are going to have a hard time convincing me someone like Maddux was using performance enhancing drugs during that time of cheating in baseball. If someone like Rose can be out of the HOF for all these years for betting I do not see how anyone who cheated to enhance their ability should be let in.
    This is my opinion as well. What the Hall of Fame committee needs to do is sit down and write out how the voters should view the steroid era at this time. There need to be guidelines, and right now there are none.

  6. #66
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    Jan 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    If someone like Rose can be out of the HOF for all these years for betting I do not see how anyone who cheated to enhance their ability should be let in.
    It's pretty simple, really: Rose bet on baseball when that was already against the rules, steroids weren't officially banned until 2006.

  7. #67
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    Iím not saying itís justified today, but we all know the expression ď1st Ballot HOFerĒ. Whyís that? Itís because it was once a big deal because there were multiple players who werenít but would have been elected in their first year, maybe even 100%, if they were voted on today.

    Voters are going to look at Mariano and say he was the best at his position thatís why he gets 100% and they donít believe Jeter deserves that same recognition.

    I personally believe if someone is an automatic, I have no idea why they donít get 100% and this includes players from the past like Brett, Carew, Schmidt, Seaver, Carlton. Ryan etc. Who truly said to themselves that these guys didnít belong?
    But its not much of an argument who is the better player. Mariano is the most dominant closer of all time but he wasn't as good of a player Jeter was. Think of the amount of games, innings, etc Jeter played in comparison to Mariano. I understand that's the nature of the closer's spot but there is something to how a player plays over more innings. To be fair to Jeter he's a top 12 SS all time. You can make the case he's higher too because of A-Rod playing almost half his career games at 3rd and Robin Yount playing a lot of CF in his career. Then there is the pre or early 1900 players.

    Does that not count for a guy who presumably deserves a unanimous selection? I think it does.

    Again dumb rights of passage shouldn't justify those things imo. I don't even like Jeter and I understand he wasn't a great defender but he should have been unanimous.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by otatop View Post
    It's pretty simple, really: Rose bet on baseball when that was already against the rules, steroids weren't officially banned until 2006.
    This goes in circles, but since when MLBís rules higher than national and state laws?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    This goes in circles, but since when MLBís rules higher than national and state laws?
    You can't punish players for taking them if they weren't outlawed and if anything (by the number of guys taking them) seemingly encouraged. After 2006, fair game, you deserve to be out of the Hall, the awareness was heightened and after that I have a harsher view. No one cared about PEDs when McGwire and Sosa were battling for the HR Record. Neither was there that much outrage after Bonds was breaking records left and right. Besides, Rose should be in also. And if you exclude Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro etc etc for PEDs, exclude Selig. He turned a blind eye in the name of record profits. Same for guys like Torre, LaRussa, Cox etc. The whole era is suspicious and tainted, so why induct guys who turned a blind eye, and guys long suspected like Piazza and Pudge. Stinks of hypocrisy on behalf of the voters


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  10. #70
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    Jan 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    This goes in circles, but since when MLBís rules higher than national and state laws?
    We're discussing punishments meted out by MLB, so MLB's rules are the ones that matter. Gambling's perfectly legal in Nevada and other places in the US but a MLB player found gambling on baseball will still receive a lifetime ban.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by otatop View Post
    We're discussing punishments meted out by MLB, so MLB's rules are the ones that matter. Gambling's perfectly legal in Nevada and other places in the US but a MLB player found gambling on baseball will still receive a lifetime ban.
    Exactly.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by otatop View Post
    We're discussing punishments meted out by MLB, so MLB's rules are the ones that matter. Gambling's perfectly legal in Nevada and other places in the US but a MLB player found gambling on baseball will still receive a lifetime ban.
    I guess people need to put it in perspective, because some donít get it.

    When the 18th Amendment was ratified, it made the selling and manufacturing of alcohol prohibited. Prohibited regardless of what Anheuser-Busch wanted to do.

    In the US, using PED the way these players did is illegal. Try to justify it as you will, but itís no different. In fact, these guys are lucky they didnít go to jail.
    Last edited by thefeckcampaign; 01-24-2020 at 05:47 PM.

  13. #73
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    May 2007
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    Yeah, because you hear about so many people facing jail time for personal steroid usage.


    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  14. #74
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    Always fun being strawmanned here on good old PSD.

  15. #75
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    Bonds and Clemens need to be in the HOF, but they should wait until they are eligible for the "veterans' committee".
    It is, after all, a museum of the game. All facets of the game should be featured. Perhaps they do not need plaques on the wall, but they must have their careers mentioned.
    Last edited by catman; 01-25-2020 at 01:33 PM.

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