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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    how much are we looking at after we resign a few of our guys not named bulaga?
    Don't have the numbers handy but now that we cut Graham, and probably Taylor if we bring BB back there still has to be 15ish?

  2. #107
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    According to spotrac, we have $25 mill right now with Graham gone. I beleive that number includes the cap hits of our draft picks assuming we don't make any major draft moves.

    But the problem isnt this year's money just though. Next year Clark, Bahk, Jones and Linsley are free agents as well. So we have to consider them in our calculations for future money. So we could presumably spend money, but we probably will extend at least one of those guys this year at some point too.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 03-12-2020 at 10:11 PM.

  3. #108
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    Ken ingalls has us around 24.4 mil after the Graham release. Taylor would clear out about 4 mil too, hope that happens soon.

    What do any of you think about moving Linsley? As crew pointed out he is part of a large UFA group in 2021 and i tend to think hes pretty low on the pecking order there. I have no clue what type of pick they could get for him in a trade but moving him clears out 8.5 mill, and if they don't believe they cant keep him beyond 2020..it may make sense to move him now, which helps keep Bulaga now..then take a few IOL stabs in april and let some guys battle with Patrick for the spot.

  4. #109
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    I also saw that Christian Kirksey was brought in for a visit today. Last two seasons been rough for him injury wise but at least it wasn't anything too major that caused him to miss that time.

    Could be a solid pick up, checks a few boxes as far age and potential upside go which are things gute saw on the 4 dudes he signed last offseason. If he's healthy, which he should be..he's an improvement from Martinez.

    Im not sure i hate an FA period of Bulaga, Kirksey, and a DT like Snacks or Pierce. Hit WR at 30 then do whatever you want. Or if Murray is around at 30 then ILB is looking real solid, take a WR in the 2nd where a real good one will be available still. A lot of options..

    **This includes keeping Linsley too btw, that was just a side thought. They can still have this type of FA regardless.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    According to spotrac, we have $25 mill right now with Graham gone. I beleive that number includes the cap hits of our draft picks assuming we don't make any major draft moves.

    But the problem isnt this year's money just though. Next year Clark, Bahk, Jones and Linsley are free agents as well. So we have to consider them in our calculations for future money. So we could presumably spend money, but we probably will extend at least one of those guys this year at some point too.
    Take out Taylor and we are up to $29 mil with ERFA tenders. However, no official word on Lane Taylor yet either.

    I agree next year will be interesting, but on that note, I think they will move on from Linsley. He's going to be 30 before the 2021 season starts. They've let better OLmen walk. Clark and Bak are must re-signs, Jones would be great as well. Jones has mutual interest so there should be no issue there. Linsley's a decent center, but he's not elite either. Consistent, but not overwhelming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sdh09e44 View Post
    What do any of you think about moving Linsley? As crew pointed out he is part of a large UFA group in 2021 and i tend to think hes pretty low on the pecking order there. I have no clue what type of pick they could get for him in a trade but moving him clears out 8.5 mill, and if they don't believe they cant keep him beyond 2020..it may make sense to move him now, which helps keep Bulaga now..then take a few IOL stabs in april and let some guys battle with Patrick for the spot.
    I don't know who would be interested in moving Linsley in this sense, if they move on from him they will need to draft a guy. Linsley is significantly better than what I've seen from Patrick. It would be a gamble to hope a rookie can come in an do the job. When we took Jenkins we knew worst cast Taylor was there. If we want a new center I'd say best option would be to know Linsley is there and see if he can be beat out. Even if the plan isn't to move on from Linsley I would take a flier on a center in this draft to upgrade over Patrick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sdh09e44 View Post
    I also saw that Christian Kirksey was brought in for a visit today. Last two seasons been rough for him injury wise but at least it wasn't anything too major that caused him to miss that time.

    Could be a solid pick up, checks a few boxes as far age and potential upside go which are things gute saw on the 4 dudes he signed last offseason. If he's healthy, which he should be..he's an improvement from Martinez.

    Im not sure i hate an FA period of Bulaga, Kirksey, and a DT like Snacks or Pierce. Hit WR at 30 then do whatever you want. Or if Murray is around at 30 then ILB is looking real solid, take a WR in the 2nd where a real good one will be available still. A lot of options..

    **This includes keeping Linsley too btw, that was just a side thought. They can still have this type of FA regardless.
    Kirksey makes sense, but I think we need to add another guy just in case whether its in the draft or not. It would be a good move and worth a look if they can clear him medically. He's had hamstring issues which is the one which concerns me, some times it a one-time thing, but we have seen as recent as Clay Matthews the impact of hammy issues. If it healed properly shouldn't be an issue.

    I really think Bulaga is gone, I don't see them paying close to 12 mil for Bulaga which is what he can get close to in the market. As of yesterday they still haven't talked.

  6. #111
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    Couple things, I can't see us moving on from Linsley and Bulaga this year. If Bulaga is gone, Linsley has to stay. No way a competitive team can expect that type of turnover on the line. For that same reason, I'm not sure we let Taylor go either. If we think Bulaga is gone, then keeping Taylor may make sense. Maybe they really like Patrick, and given the extension he got, they must, but even if veldheer and a rookie is the plan at RT, you have to figure turner or Jenkins is the contingency plan, so having an experienced vet like Taylor to be available in case of that makes sense.

    I hate that we haven't reached out to Bulaga. Ted did the same thing. But why make assumptions. I doubt it, but what if Bulaga is willing to take a massive discount to stay here? Again, I doubt it's the case, but reach out just in case and as a show of respect for a guy who's been a good player for your team for a while. Figure out what his number is and monitor it in case his market isn't robust.

    I like kirksey, but given our lack of talent at the position, he can't be the only option. He's too unreliable from a health perspective for me to feel good about something like him, Burks, a mid round rookie and like Sommers or Goodson or someone.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Couple things, I can't see us moving on from Linsley and Bulaga this year. If Bulaga is gone, Linsley has to stay. No way a competitive team can expect that type of turnover on the line. For that same reason, I'm not sure we let Taylor go either. If we think Bulaga is gone, then keeping Taylor may make sense. Maybe they really like Patrick, and given the extension he got, they must, but even if veldheer and a rookie is the plan at RT, you have to figure turner or Jenkins is the contingency plan, so having an experienced vet like Taylor to be available in case of that makes sense.

    I hate that we haven't reached out to Bulaga. Ted did the same thing. But why make assumptions. I doubt it, but what if Bulaga is willing to take a massive discount to stay here? Again, I doubt it's the case, but reach out just in case and as a show of respect for a guy who's been a good player for your team for a while. Figure out what his number is and monitor it in case his market isn't robust.

    I like kirksey, but given our lack of talent at the position, he can't be the only option. He's too unreliable from a health perspective for me to feel good about something like him, Burks, a mid round rookie and like Sommers or Goodson or someone.
    Yeah, certainly wouldn't want to do that, a big indicator I think of Linsley's future here will be how we draft. I think multiple OL spells bad news for him. I'm also thinking we may keep Taylor as well, his contract is not completely unbearable.

    I'm just not sold on Patrick and maybe he shows something else behind the scenes, but on the field, I've seen a poor IOLman. He looked good in the pre-season, but ehh during the regular. Granted he only played some 130 snaps not a definitive look, but not sold on Patrick.

    I'm thinking Taylor stays they've got only a few days remaining until they essentially are locked into keeping him.

    I don't have an issue with them not reaching out they did have some talks following the season. Here's why for me the Packers should want to lock him in long term to the deal he can get, and Buglaga shouldn't settle for a short-low end offer. I don't think Bulaga has the ability to give us another 2 good 16 game season, no reason to consider giving him a big deal. Let him get one last payday, go by amicably, and call him back to be inducted into the Packers HOF a little after he retires. It's best for both sides to move on. Packers get cap space, can plan for future, and be more prepared for other OL transitions. You get your RT of the future you now have your LG and RT locked in. Probably get at least 4ish years more of Bak, Linsley replaced next year, we have Turner at RG for 3 more. It's a nice systematic ascension if they draft right. You now go into this offseason know you need to replace him and are not unprepared if per se he goes down week 3 for the season.

    I'd feel much better about Kirksey if we landed Kwiatowski (doesn't have to be him) as an example. Pettine will finally have some options at ILB. If Kirksey is healthy then our defense looks a whole lot better with two options at ILB. I'm thinking they may bring Raven Greene back as well which gives us a more interesting look then Martinez, a little bit of Greene, and the time to pray package of Goodson, Burke, Summers.

  8. #113
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    I get we may not sign Bulaga and probably won't. I just can't say it's best for both sides. I mean hes still very clearly the best option at RT. Planning for the future is fine, but when you're planning on being a super bowl contender, taking a big risk at OL can backfire.

    Right now the plan is possibly veldheer, turner, Jenkins or a rookie. Those all are very risky. Veldheer was retired last year and played 2 games. While he played well, that's still a limited sample size. And with all the Bulaga injury risk, veldheer missed 4, 3 and 8 games his prior 3 years too and will be 33. Or it's turner, who was a pretty poor tackle in Denver. Or it's Jenkins, who has never played tackle in the pros and I don't beleive he ever did in college either. Or it's a theoretical rookie. All of those are pretty risky moves.

    I get why you don't write Bulaga a blank check. But I don't get why you aren't in constant contact with him. I don't ever expect him or any player to give a hometown discount. But sometimes players do. And we don't know what other offers he'll get. It's possible he could sign for a reasonable deal, and that's why to me, not talking to him is so dumb. If spriggs would have panned out and he was waiting in the wings, then I'd be all for letting him walk no matter what. But our options are a recently retired player with an injury history, our 2 starting guards or forcing ourselves to draft a guy.

    This feels alot like the jordy situation. While I had no issue releasing jordy, we never really went to him with a restricture request to see if he would have taken less. We were convinced we wanted to move on from a vet without a great replacement plan and it backfired. Our wr's still suck as a group. There's a definite risk of that here too. I know alot of folks complained about our line last year but it was really good. Theres a big risk it struggles next year if Bulaga is gone, so at least communicating with him to figure out where he's at makes sense.

  9. #114
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    First free agent move is Christian Kirksey for 2 yrs 16 mil. A great deal of he stays healthy. Has some rapport with Pettine already. This is a steal if he is healthy.

  10. #115
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    If healthy is the big key.

    They still need to add a ILB in the draft in the first few rounds for depth I would imagine.

  11. #116
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    Structure of the deal will. Be interesting. Wonder how much is tied to games active and how cheap the out is after year one. I was talking to a buddy and kirksey makes me nervous and this deal is exactly why. It's expensive enough that it's unlikely we dip back into the higher end of the ilb free agent market again but his injury history makes it so you almost have to have a backup plan that isn't Oren Burks. On paper I really like it, but if he plays like 6 games next year, which is a possibility given his history, we may be looking at a rough year at ilb again.

  12. #117
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    I'm thinking they don't have plans to make another ILB via free agency either, but not because of the money, per se. There is a growing buzz around the Austin Hooper market Green Bay may be his first choice, money talks too so, far from a done deal.

    Two, I think now with Kirksey and Burks we have two potential starters, so there may be a draft guy added, but likely 4th or later to be a developmental back up. From what I have read during the off-season I think there is more to be read about Burks:

    I feel really good about Oren. He has to stay healthy, but I think he has all the talent in the world to be a productive player for us, Gutekunst said. I think Ty Summers did a really, really nice job, not only on special teams but how he developed as a linebacker as well. And Curtis (Bolton), he had the knee injury, but early on in training camp he was making some big strides.
    Comments like these make me think they are higher on Burks than most fans are. I think with Oren Burks is we haven't seen him play much. If the Packers think Burks can slide into a starting role and Summers and Bolton are capable backups, Gutekunst only needs to add one more linebacker this offseason. Not a popular opinion here, but I wouldn't expect to see much more traffic at ILB. The only issue with this plan is neither Burks or Kirksey has been healthy in the last two season, but I think this is the plan.

  13. #118
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    Packers have signed RT Rick Wagner which means they have officially let Bulaga walk. I like the Wagner idea a little better than the Veldheer and draft pick option. Wagner never lived up to his contract hype, but still a decent RT. Wagner an option not on the board until recently. 2 year 11 mil. Sound like he will be the guy bridging the gap to the successor. Good move in my view. He comes pretty cheap as well. The Lions will be paying him more the next two seasons than we are. It has a 2.75 mil play time incentive meaning his base will only be 2.25 mil. Great move.
    Last edited by IRNMN; 03-16-2020 at 11:10 AM.

  14. #119
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    Kirksey only is getting 4 mil guaranteed. They have it structure so he get incentives for each game he plays. Real low risk deal here. I like both moves, great upside for both guys who can be stellar player, but low risk deals. In pretty impressed with these moves. We now fill two major holes with cap flex in other areas.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I'm thinking they don't have plans to make another ILB via free agency either, but not because of the money, per se. There is a growing buzz around the Austin Hooper market Green Bay may be his first choice, money talks too so, far from a done deal.

    Two, I think now with Kirksey and Burks we have two potential starters, so there may be a draft guy added, but likely 4th or later to be a developmental back up. From what I have read during the off-season I think there is more to be read about Burks:



    Comments like these make me think they are higher on Burks than most fans are. I think with Oren Burks is we haven't seen him play much. If the Packers think Burks can slide into a starting role and Summers and Bolton are capable backups, Gutekunst only needs to add one more linebacker this offseason. Not a popular opinion here, but I wouldn't expect to see much more traffic at ILB. The only issue with this plan is neither Burks or Kirksey has been healthy in the last two season, but I think this is the plan.
    To be fair, they've said similar things about montravious adams as well. He was the offseason mvp last year and was going to do huge things.

    Interesting thing with both Wagner and kirksey is that they were both released, meaning they don't impact the comp pick formula. Seeing as Martinez and Bulaga will get decent deals, it's possible we are avoiding true unrestricted types to get comp picks. Or at least only target 1 guy and still get a comp pick for one of BB or BM.

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