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  1. #46
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    I'm also much lower on Williams than most. I appreciate his willingness as a pass blocker and he runs hard, but he just as no wiggle or elusiveness. He caught a pass vs Seattle that was just the epitome of the jamaal Williams experience. He caught the pass, had like 6 yards to run before any defender was near him, and had 1 on 1 with a safety needing to get like 3 more yards for the first down. He got tackled, fell forward and missed the first down. He had no wiggle to shake the guy. And that's him. He does his job. He gets exactly what's there, runs hard and falls forward. Again, it's not bad, but I dont hate trying to replace him with someone more dynamic.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I'm also much lower on Williams than most. I appreciate his willingness as a pass blocker and he runs hard, but he just as no wiggle or elusiveness. He caught a pass vs Seattle that was just the epitome of the jamaal Williams experience. He caught the pass, had like 6 yards to run before any defender was near him, and had 1 on 1 with a safety needing to get like 3 more yards for the first down. He got tackled, fell forward and missed the first down. He had no wiggle to shake the guy. And that's him. He does his job. He gets exactly what's there, runs hard and falls forward. Again, it's not bad, but I dont hate trying to replace him with someone more dynamic.
    The thing with Jamaal Williams is I think in light of comparison to what the run game has been over the past 10 years looks great. Over the past 10 years, there has been no quite up to par, two years of Eddie Lacy then he got fat, and nothing. Since the Jones-Williams era, they have put up a combined 3,740 rushing yards, 1,427 receiving yards, 47 TD's. Williams may not be a superstar, but he and Jones combined to produce and have brought the run and screen game back to Green Bay. My fear would be we've seen people who have been said to be more dynamic on a scouting report but put up a fragment of what Williams did alone. So I don't know if a lot of people are overhyping him, but he gets results, and the media loves him with his random talk interviews. Both guys have something I don't think most RB's in the past have had and that's QB1's trust. Best case we get a guy in for the 3rd spot and he proves himself.

  3. #48
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    With Aaron Jones on the field, the packers EPA (expected points added) would have been good for 3rd in the nfl in the regular season. That's regardless of who else was on the field, simply Jones being on (Williams shared the field with Jones at times so those plays are included). For plays that Jones was off the field and Williams was on the field, our EPA would have been 29th in the league in the regular season.

    Rodgers QBR when Jones is on the field was 68 this year. With Williams on and Jones off, Rodgers qbr was 29. I think our offensive line run blocked fairly well this year and I think that played a part in Williams seeming better than he is. More push means more yards before first contact, so his numbers look fine. But I just don't see it with Williams and the numbers seem to back up that our offense just isn't very good with him on the field compared to Jones. While I think that's partially a testament to how talented Jones is, I do think it probably also indicates that we could do better at our #2 rb spot. And that's especially important for us, as we don't seem overly willing to allow Jones to be the bellcow.

  4. #49
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    Roto: ESPN's Jake Trotter believes the Browns will consider trading David Njoku this offseason.

    Coming off a lost 2019, Njoku likely wouldn't return more than a Day 3 pick. for a day 3 pick? i have no hesitation.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    With Aaron Jones on the field, the packers EPA (expected points added) would have been good for 3rd in the nfl in the regular season. That's regardless of who else was on the field, simply Jones being on (Williams shared the field with Jones at times so those plays are included). For plays that Jones was off the field and Williams was on the field, our EPA would have been 29th in the league in the regular season.

    Rodgers QBR when Jones is on the field was 68 this year. With Williams on and Jones off, Rodgers qbr was 29. I think our offensive line run blocked fairly well this year and I think that played a part in Williams seeming better than he is. More push means more yards before first contact, so his numbers look fine. But I just don't see it with Williams and the numbers seem to back up that our offense just isn't very good with him on the field compared to Jones. While I think that's partially a testament to how talented Jones is, I do think it probably also indicates that we could do better at our #2 rb spot. And that's especially important for us, as we don't seem overly willing to allow Jones to be the bellcow.
    I was mostly saying Williams even of a little overrated is still possibly the 2nd or 3rd best RB Rodgers has seen in his career. Not a major endorsement of Williams, but more of a how bad our backfield has been in the past. Certainly we could upgrade there. But I would like to see Williams almost do the Tony Fisher like role as the receiving #3 with an occasional run.

    Quote Originally Posted by alabastertubby View Post
    Roto: ESPN's Jake Trotter believes the Browns will consider trading David Njoku this offseason.

    Coming off a lost 2019, Njoku likely wouldn't return more than a Day 3 pick. for a day 3 pick? i have no hesitation.
    I would have an issue with Njoku we could develop a nice trio with him, Sternberger, and Tonyan. Especially if your looking at a 5th or 6th round pick.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I would have an issue with Njoku we could develop a nice trio with him, Sternberger, and Tonyan. Especially if your looking at a 5th or 6th round pick.
    he is worth a 4th if Cleveland wants to play hardball. if he misses it's only a 4th.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    Certainly don't disagree. I would argue they likely only bring either Jones or Williams back unless they both take team-friendly deals. Also, I would say smart money would be on Bulaga not returning unless he takes a hometown discount. He still one of the best RT's, but giving him the contract he is likely going to land may not be worth the risk considering his age and past health. They have a few options as they could slide Billy Turner to RT, draft someone (either RT or RG), or if Turner moves they could slide Patrick or Madison on the right side. History isn't on his side rarely has the team kept OLinemen into their 30's. Clifton and Tauscher may have been the only significant names I can remember in recent memory who both were here until 32. Sitton went at 30, Lang 29, Rivera 31, just to name a few off the top of my head. I would not be shocked to see the team take a two or three OLmen this draft.
    I would like to say this guy might be wrong, the more I look at it the more I realize it makes not sense not to bring back Bulaga for maybe a deal structured similar to Graham's IE team options for years 2 and 3. The more I look at the tackles in the draft the more I see how developmental even guys who could go in the first like Josh Jones would be. If Bulaga isn't back you almost need to call Veldheer to see if he might want to go another year. I know people think Jenkins can play the right side, but he's been phenomenal where he is and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a better or significantly better duo on the left side. The more I look at this draft the more I think I may be wrong and Bulaga could be an exception to the rule.

    Also, I don't know how definitive this, but I've heard from a few places, not just the PackersWire podcast the Packers may explore moving Gary around. I've heard both some work on the DL (I'm assuming when we go 4-3 packages) and some at ILB (maybe as in a CMIII capacity). On one side this makes sense you need to get the guy on the field. Athletically he is an upgrade at the spots. I'm not buying it unless I see more concrete proof they are doing this, but it would put an interesting dynamic on how this off-season goes. I think the FA period and draft could give us some insight to how valid this rumor is.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I would like to say this guy might be wrong, the more I look at it the more I realize it makes not sense not to bring back Bulaga for maybe a deal structured similar to Graham's IE team options for years 2 and 3. The more I look at the tackles in the draft the more I see how developmental even guys who could go in the first like Josh Jones would be. If Bulaga isn't back you almost need to call Veldheer to see if he might want to go another year. I know people think Jenkins can play the right side, but he's been phenomenal where he is and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a better or significantly better duo on the left side. The more I look at this draft the more I think I may be wrong and Bulaga could be an exception to the rule.

    Also, I don't know how definitive this, but I've heard from a few places, not just the PackersWire podcast the Packers may explore moving Gary around. I've heard both some work on the DL (I'm assuming when we go 4-3 packages) and some at ILB (maybe as in a CMIII capacity). On one side this makes sense you need to get the guy on the field. Athletically he is an upgrade at the spots. I'm not buying it unless I see more concrete proof they are doing this, but it would put an interesting dynamic on how this off-season goes. I think the FA period and draft could give us some insight to how valid this rumor is.
    That's where I've been on Bulaga. There's virtually no way you're upgrading him via draft, at least not short term. The only question I see are some rumblings about jenkins possibly playing tackle. He has the athleticism, but the other part of me says why mess with a good thing. He was really good at guard last year and will only get better.

    As for Gary, I'm okay moving him around, but ilb doesn't seem like a good fit. Instincts has always sort of been his question mark, that ilb seems like an odd spot. DL makes sense. I questioned if they'd consider bringing back fackerall or drafting another pass rusher in the mid rounds and more permanently moving Gary to more of an end role. I mean, I'm not sure exactly where he's weighing in right now, but listed size has him and say JJ Watt as the same height and Gary is only listed 11 lbs lighter. Gary has always been solid in the weight room and allegedly very willing there, that I don't see if being ridiculous to think he pack on a little more weight if more of a full time end role ia what we want him to do.

    As for njoku, I just dont see them settling for less than a third. Maybe it's like njoku and a 6th for a 3ed or something, but teams usually don't give up first rounders for much less than that unless there's a problem. Njoku hasn't been as productive as they hoped, but I haven't heard anythign negative surrounding him. Perhaps a new regime just says f it, let's get rid of him, but I'm guessing they'll still ask enough for him. I'm thinking it's gonna be similar to OJ Howard at the deadline. They floated his name as maybe available, but then allegedly asked for a ton. I see that being something that the Browns do too. At least a 3rd but maybe more.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by alabastertubby View Post
    he is worth a 4th if Cleveland wants to play hardball. if he misses it's only a 4th.
    I would maybe try and play hardball with them back, I think the whole organization is pretty stupid and poorly ran. They had a group that knew what they were doing, even if they didn't like Dorsey they could have easily of slid Wolf or Highsmith in the GM role, but they lost all three for a variety of reasons. I have to believe their next regime under Berry is going to be pretty poor if both Wolf, Highsmith, and Malin left because of concerns with the organizational structure and other reasons. I would very much try to nab both Njoku and OBJ in the same deal giving up a few drafts pick as possible and pepper the deal with "name players" who may have fallen from favor. Lane Taylor if not cut could be a player you chip in, he would be an upgrade for that OL. A lot of people think they were actually close to acquiring him at the deadline. Say what you want about OBJ he's an upgrade over most of our WR's. Get him a legitimate QB I think that solves most of the issues he has. I think OBJ is very disgruntled in Cleveland and sees they have no idea what they are doing. He also likely has some regrets about leaving New York, they may not be the best ran organization, but nowhere on the Cleveland level dysfunction. but has someone who he's listening to who is doing as much PR work to make sure he doesn't appear as a mega-diva. Packers could win the off-season if they can pull something like this off.

    Regardless if it's this deal I could see them make move via trade to add a nice playmaker.

  10. #55
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    Antonio brown... he will def be on his best behavior now.... how about we stop trying to be the big pc team and just try to get better? HE WILL COST NOTHING lol... if he acts up you cut him.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Antonio brown... he will def be on his best behavior now.... how about we stop trying to be the big pc team and just try to get better? HE WILL COST NOTHING lol... if he acts up you cut him.
    A few thinks on this, not sure of you're serious, but if you are. The guy issues at the moment which are bigger than football, he needs to get help not another contract any team that signs him at this point is extremely reckless. Even the guys family has talked about shifts in his mental health and behavior. People are clowning the guy but is sounds like he literally needs professional help.

    Second, on that the PC thing is what makes Green Bay one of the premier organizations in football, they do things right, they are one with the community, they are smart, and dont take huge risk and so on Green Bay does most things the way they have for years for a reason. At the same time it's not a PC matter anymore last year adding AB may have been a PC matter, this year it's down right dangerous until he can prove he get his life in order.

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