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  1. #31
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    Hahahaha, Hahahahaha, Hahahaha......you posted an article that ranks Alex Smith 16th on 25 deep passing attempts?

    Marcus Mariota a top 10 deep passer based on 28 attempts? What a joke.

    This is also massively subjective:
    Speaking of, Accurate Incompletions reward the quarterbacks with an accurate pass that couldnít be hauled in by the receiver. These include drops, pass breakups depending on the placement, sideline throws where the receiver couldnít get two feet in bounds, some Hail Marys, etc. Inaccurate Completions are the exact opposite, taking a look at plays where the quarterback completed a pass but forced the receiver to make an adjustment when he didnít need to, counting as a strike on the quarterbackís Accuracy Percentage.
    So a QB could throw out to the sidelines on a WR that drifted too far inward on his route, and the WR makes an adjustment to catch it, but they could rule it an Inaccurate Completion? That's a joke.

  2. #32
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    An argument can be made for Peyton in 2015.

    Regular season:
    -Won 7 games as a starter, but his team carried him to a 1 seed.
    -59.8 completion percentage
    -9 Touchdowns
    -17 Interceptions
    -67.9 passer rating on 331 pass attempts.
    -Josh Rosen (2018), Deshone Kizer (2017), Geno Smith (2013), Mark Sanchez (2012), Blaine Gabbert (2011), and Derek Anderson (2010) are the only qualifying passers this decade to have had a worse season than Peytons 2015, yet he got a 1 seed. If any of the listed players had gotten into the playoffs at all, much less a 1 seed, we would obviously say that they had been carried.

    In the playoffs, Peyton had a 55.4 completion percentage, averaged 5.8 yards per attempt, and had 2 TDs to 2 Ints for a passer rating of 75.4. He also fumbled 4 times in the playoff run. By passer rating, it was the second worst performance in the playoffs by a SB winning QB since the 80s. The worst? 2006 Peyton
    .

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Boztalian View Post
    An argument can be made for Peyton in 2015.

    Regular season:
    -Won 7 games as a starter, but his team carried him to a 1 seed.
    -59.8 completion percentage
    -9 Touchdowns
    -17 Interceptions
    -67.9 passer rating on 331 pass attempts.
    -Josh Rosen (2018), Deshone Kizer (2017), Geno Smith (2013), Mark Sanchez (2012), Blaine Gabbert (2011), and Derek Anderson (2010) are the only qualifying passers this decade to have had a worse season than Peytons 2015, yet he got a 1 seed. If any of the listed players had gotten into the playoffs at all, much less a 1 seed, we would obviously say that they had been carried.

    In the playoffs, Peyton had a 55.4 completion percentage, averaged 5.8 yards per attempt, and had 2 TDs to 2 Ints for a passer rating of 75.4. He also fumbled 4 times in the playoff run. By passer rating, it was the second worst performance in the playoffs by a SB winning QB since the 80s. The worst? 2006 Peyton
    Peyton had poor super bowl performances. But his passing was game changing. Revolutionary. He was unstoppable like nothing the nfl has seen since perhaps dan Marino in his early prime.

    With 0 rings he's still top 2 or 3 at worst all time.



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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Peyton had poor super bowl performances. But his passing was game changing. Revolutionary. He was unstoppable like nothing the nfl has seen since perhaps dan Marino in his early prime.

    With 0 rings he's still top 2 or 3 at worst all time.



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    Definitely. I'm not arguing against his career merits at all. He in my top 5 all time. Im just saying for that as far as QBs being carried to a Super Bowl, Peyton in 2015 was the ultimate. More than Jimmy this year
    .

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Boztalian View Post
    Definitely. I'm not arguing against his career merits at all. He in my top 5 all time. Im just saying for that as far as QBs being carried to a Super Bowl, Peyton in 2015 was the ultimate. More than Jimmy this year
    Agreed....2015 peyton was probably worse than most backups lol

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  6. #36
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    2015 Peyton was properly carried. Jimmy G could yet pull out an MVP performance on Sunday, and the question becomes obsolete.


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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by stejay View Post
    2015 Peyton was properly carried. Jimmy G could yet pull out an MVP performance on Sunday, and the question becomes obsolete.
    Exactly. And part of getting "carried" to the SB is the regular season. Jimmy (27 TDs, 13 picks, over 3900 yards, 102 passer rating) actually contributed to his teams seeding. Peytons team not only carried him to a 1 seed, but got there in spite of him
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Boztalian View Post
    Exactly. And part of getting "carried" to the SB is the regular season. Jimmy (27 TDs, 13 picks, over 3900 yards, 102 passer rating) actually contributed to his teams seeding. Peytons team not only carried him to a 1 seed, but got there in spite of him
    Exactly. Jimmy has been carried through the playoffs, but his play helped massively. I used a comparison between him and Alex Smith earlier in this thread. It got knocked down quickly, but I stand by it. That's around his level (no mean feat, Alex Smith was a low key guy, who has more bad luck than the bears), and thats OK. It is the same as someone like Smith or a Chad Pennington like character. If they had this defense, with their offensive skills, it would be around similar. That doesn't mean Jimmy was carried through the regular season, he just isn't a top tier level QB. He has a great running game. He has a great defense. He makes plays when he needs to. There is no shame in that.


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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by stejay View Post
    Exactly. Jimmy has been carried through the playoffs, but his play helped massively. I used a comparison between him and Alex Smith earlier in this thread. It got knocked down quickly, but I stand by it. That's around his level (no mean feat, Alex Smith was a low key guy, who has more bad luck than the bears), and thats OK. It is the same as someone like Smith or a Chad Pennington like character. If they had this defense, with their offensive skills, it would be around similar. That doesn't mean Jimmy was carried through the regular season, he just isn't a top tier level QB. He has a great running game. He has a great defense. He makes plays when he needs to. There is no shame in that.
    Jimmy is no Chad Pennington. He is far better than you make him out to be.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Jimmy is no Chad Pennington. He is far better than you make him out to be.
    Your taking that as a slight. It's not. Let's look at this logically.

    Jimmy G best totals - 69.1% comp, 3978 yds, 27 TD, 102.0 PassRating.
    Chad Pennington best totals - 68.9% comp, 3653 yds, 22 TD, 104.2 PassRating.

    Lets not pretend Pennington wasn't a very very good QB. In 2008 with the Dolphins, he was playing at a MVP level most of the season. So, yeah. Not a slight. It's a good comparison, his best stats in one season, as seen above, are like one big game, or two decent games, away from Garoppolo. Acting like i've compared him to Johnny Manziel or something


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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by stejay View Post
    Your taking that as a slight. It's not. Let's look at this logically.

    Jimmy G best totals - 69.1% comp, 3978 yds, 27 TD, 102.0 PassRating.
    Chad Pennington best totals - 68.9% comp, 3653 yds, 22 TD, 104.2 PassRating.

    Lets not pretend Pennington wasn't a very very good QB. In 2008 with the Dolphins, he was playing at a MVP level most of the season. So, yeah. Not a slight. It's a good comparison, his best stats in one season, as seen above, are like one big game, or two decent games, away from Garoppolo. Acting like i've compared him to Johnny Manziel or something
    Well you're using his literal best total from any individual season combined which is very disingenuous. The actual seasons you're referring to are:

    2002: 68.9% | 3,120 yds | 22 TDs, 104.2 QB Rating
    2008: 68.8% | 3,653 yds | 19 TDs, 97.4 QB Rating

    Those were good years. But in the intervening 5 years he threw 58 TDs and 49 INTs and only had a 90+ QB rating once in that time. He has also never thrown for more than 228 YPG and his career YPG is 200. This is because he was a dink and dunker who didn't throw the ball downfield very much.

    Consider Jimmy threw for 248 YPG this year, which is higher than Pennington ever did. Additionally, Pennington's career high for passes over 20 yards is 40. Jimmy Garropolo this year had 61 passes over 20 yards. Garoppolo also threw a TD on 5.7% of his throws this season. Pennington's career high was 5.5% and after that first season he was never over 4.4%.

    (I looked at Alex Smith's downfield passing as well and his career high was 2017 in KC when he threw 52 passes over 20 yds, his next highest was 42 and his amounts in SF were: 22, 41, 30, 33, 11, 34, and 13).


    It's weird to me that your comparison's both seem to be people who specialized in throwing short passes and who didn't throw down the field much when Garropolo has shown no aversion to throwing downfield. Jimmy G was 4th in the entire league in 20+ completions. And this season, his first full year as a starter, is better than any season Pennington ever had and better than all of Smith's seasons except for his very last one in KC, where he was playing far better than he ever had in SF.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well you're using his literal best total from any individual season combined which is very disingenuous. The actual seasons you're referring to are:

    2002: 68.9% | 3,120 yds | 22 TDs, 104.2 QB Rating
    2008: 68.8% | 3,653 yds | 19 TDs, 97.4 QB Rating

    Those were good years. But in the intervening 5 years he threw 58 TDs and 49 INTs and only had a 90+ QB rating once in that time. He has also never thrown for more than 228 YPG and his career YPG is 200. This is because he was a dink and dunker who didn't throw the ball downfield very much.

    Consider Jimmy threw for 248 YPG this year, which is higher than Pennington ever did. Additionally, Pennington's career high for passes over 20 yards is 40. Jimmy Garropolo this year had 61 passes over 20 yards. Garoppolo also threw a TD on 5.7% of his throws this season. Pennington's career high was 5.5% and after that first season he was never over 4.4%.

    (I looked at Alex Smith's downfield passing as well and his career high was 2017 in KC when he threw 52 passes over 20 yds, his next highest was 42 and his amounts in SF were: 22, 41, 30, 33, 11, 34, and 13).


    It's weird to me that your comparison's both seem to be people who specialized in throwing short passes and who didn't throw down the field much when Garropolo has shown no aversion to throwing downfield. Jimmy G was 4th in the entire league in 20+ completions. And this season, his first full year as a starter, is better than any season Pennington ever had and better than all of Smith's seasons except for his very last one in KC, where he was playing far better than he ever had in SF.
    *in one full season. Jimmy G has only played one full season. He is not this elite QB you think he is. Take the goggles off buddy


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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by stejay View Post
    *in one full season. Jimmy G has only played one full season. He is not this elite QB you think he is. Take the goggles off buddy
    He isn't elite but being an above average qb in his first full season is a reason for optimism.

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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    He isn't elite but being an above average qb in his first full season is a reason for optimism.
    I'm not s%$&&^%g on Jimmy. Just his level at the moment is Alex Smith level. Above average QB. Same with 2007 era Pennington. Better half of the league, but not near top tier. Yet people are hurt i've made that comparison? Maybe if he can be above average every season he's healthy, then i'll move him up a tier. But now he is above average and no higher.

    There is

    Elite
    Very good
    Above Average (Here Jimmy Is)
    Average
    Bad
    Terrible


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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by stejay View Post
    I'm not s%$&&^%g on Jimmy. Just his level at the moment is Alex Smith level. Above average QB. Same with 2007 era Pennington. Better half of the league, but not near top tier. Yet people are hurt i've made that comparison? Maybe if he can be above average every season he's healthy, then i'll move him up a tier. But now he is above average and no higher.

    There is

    Elite
    Very good
    Above Average (Here Jimmy Is)
    Average
    Bad
    Terrible
    OK, I see what you're saying. His overall evaluation as a QB is dependent on his consistency. But as for just last season? He played extremely well.

    He was:

    8th in QB Rating
    5th in Comp. %
    12th in Pass Yards
    3rd in Yds/Attempt
    T-5th in TDs
    4th in 20+ yd passes

    That is Top 5 in most categories and Top 10 in all but Pass Yards and Interceptions. I can say the list of QBs who had hands down a better season or are better is not very long (Brady, Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes, Lamar, and Brees are for sure. You could argue Goff, Prescott, Wentz, Ryan, Watson, and Stafford). I think he is a Top 10 QB. That is probably a little high based on my fandom, but at no point did anyone think Pennington showed this level of potential or perform this well.

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