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Thread: HOF impact

  1. #1
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    HOF impact

    Did a number of Astros just see their potential HOF inductions go out the window or will people give them the benefit of the doubt where they didnt with PED's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  2. #2
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    I don't think it hurts Verlander at all. If just being in the clubhouse, witnessing cheating and not saying anything makes you guilty, then no one who played baseball in the late 80s and pretty much all of the 90s should be in the Hall of Fame. The same goes for Cole assuming he becomes a Hall of Famer someday.

    The hitters will be more interesting to follow, because the report didn't actually name any player names. So did Altuve and Bregman personally use the system to their benefit? We have no clue at this point. They're the only two current players who jump out to me who'd appear to have a real shot at the Hall of Fame, depending on how you value George Springer's postseason production. My gut tells me that as long as their numbers back them up, they'd probably get in the Hall eventually, in the same way that a guy like Bagwell got in. But right now, none of them are Hall of Famers. Altuve probably has the best shot, but he's probably gotta top 3,000 hits first.

    The most interesting case might be Beltran. He was already probably a borderline candidate, and he was the one lone player from the 2017 team to be officially named as being not only involved, but being one of the leaders of the system. If the scandal hurts anyone's case for the Hall the most it's his, especially since he's only a few years away (2023) of his first year of eligibility.

    Another thing to consider is that time heals some wounds. I think you're seeing that with the steroid users' votes right now, with Bonds and Clemens getting really, really close to having enough votes to get in so many more years removed from the PED scandals. Granted, they're two of the greatest players in the history of the sport, but a few years ago, even those guys getting in seemed inconceivable. So something that might hurt Beltran more in the mid-2020s might not hurt guys like Altuve or Bregman, who wouldn't likely be eligible until sometime in the 2030s.


  3. #3
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    Itís gonna be a joke. The people who ended up voting for Bonds and Clemens are gonna be the ones who chastise Beltran.

    If the steroid users can get votes, so can a guy like Beltran.


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    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumť

  4. #4
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    Time heals all wounds. Unless you're Pete Rose.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Itís gonna be a joke. The people who ended up voting for Bonds and Clemens are gonna be the ones who chastise Beltran.

    If the steroid users can get votes, so can a guy like Beltran.


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    Except that with PEDs every team in the majors as far as we know had 1 if not multiple PED users in the 90s. This is 1 team (in 2017) cheating the rest of 29 teams in the majors to win. And obviously a lot of Astros were involved you have to be either blind or dead not to know what was going on in real time.

    But personally I wouldn't hold this against Beltran's credentials as a player because this scandal pretty much concerns his post career since in 2017 he was just a vet presence in the clubhouse, he didn't do much stats wise.

    Altuve, Springer, Bregman and the other position players whose stats, accolades and rings were DIRECTLY affected by the scandal those are a different story. Personally I would remove their 2017 and 2018 stats from their career as far as possible HOF cases for them.

    But again that's me, like for PED each voter would have his own way of voting and that character clause for the HOF will definitely be used against the 2017-2018 Astros here unfortunately.

  6. #6
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    If there's any truth to the "buzzing devices" story, these guys will be lucky not to be banned from the game for life, let alone not make the HOF.

  7. #7
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    Lofl

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  8. #8
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    I highly doubt this will be a make or break kinda thing on any of these players HOF chances. Not a good look for sure but won't be a deciding factor for anyone.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    I highly doubt this will be a make or break kinda thing on any of these players HOF chances. Not a good look for sure but won't be a deciding factor for anyone.
    Really? How does something like this not create serious doubt in your mind about the legitimacy of the numbers, not just 2017 but basically everything they've done in an astros uniform until today?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  10. #10
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    Beltran was a HOF player going into that final season and he was just a bench player for them.

    This should play absolutely no role in him getting in.

  11. #11
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    3 words and 2 commas will keep Beltran from consideration for the Hall.
    ........, including Carlos Beltran,........ From Commissioner Manfred's report.

  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Really? How does something like this not create serious doubt in your mind about the legitimacy of the numbers, not just 2017 but basically everything they've done in an astros uniform until today?

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    Yes, really. I doubt this system turned poor or average hitters in to great ones. Not to mention that by the time these guys are HOF eligible, the amount of plate appearances affected by this scheme will be a drop in the bucket next to the rest of their career.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    I don't think it hurts Verlander at all. If just being in the clubhouse, witnessing cheating and not saying anything makes you guilty, then no one who played baseball in the late 80s and pretty much all of the 90s should be in the Hall of Fame. The same goes for Cole assuming he becomes a Hall of Famer someday.

    The hitters will be more interesting to follow, because the report didn't actually name any player names. So did Altuve and Bregman personally use the system to their benefit? We have no clue at this point. They're the only two current players who jump out to me who'd appear to have a real shot at the Hall of Fame, depending on how you value George Springer's postseason production. My gut tells me that as long as their numbers back them up, they'd probably get in the Hall eventually, in the same way that a guy like Bagwell got in. But right now, none of them are Hall of Famers. Altuve probably has the best shot, but he's probably gotta top 3,000 hits first.

    The most interesting case might be Beltran. He was already probably a borderline candidate, and he was the one lone player from the 2017 team to be officially named as being not only involved, but being one of the leaders of the system. If the scandal hurts anyone's case for the Hall the most it's his, especially since he's only a few years away (2023) of his first year of eligibility.

    Another thing to consider is that time heals some wounds. I think you're seeing that with the steroid users' votes right now, with Bonds and Clemens getting really, really close to having enough votes to get in so many more years removed from the PED scandals. Granted, they're two of the greatest players in the history of the sport, but a few years ago, even those guys getting in seemed inconceivable. So something that might hurt Beltran more in the mid-2020s might not hurt guys like Altuve or Bregman, who wouldn't likely be eligible until sometime in the 2030s.
    One hitter to wonder about is Carlos Beltran, who was a bit of a boarderline case before, but since evidence has shown him as a ring leader in all this...idk.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    One hitter to wonder about is Carlos Beltran, who was a bit of a boarderline case before, but since evidence has shown him as a ring leader in all this...idk.
    So you're just repeating what I'm saying? I don't get your shtick, dude...

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