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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    I've been wanting to get a PG for years, wanted Trae in the draft, wanted Brogdon, want a PG this year, because Frank isnt a full time PG. so yea i've always felt that. doesnt mean i'm not a big Frank fan and doesn't mean I think we should be playing him 15mpg in favor of Payton.

    Knicks spent all summer hyping up DSJR? How? by signing Payton and saying he will start? By clearing cap to desperately try to sign Kyrie? only one hyping DSJR up was DSJR... Knicks only gave him 20 games before giving up on him, and if you gave up on him, they should have moved him instead of rotting him on the bench.
    you are so wrong on DSJ, and this coming from me who has been in his corner, Knicks handed him the keys and he dropped them big time. He was terrible before his mom passed and aftwards no better, he showed one or two blimps and that was it.

    Knicks gave him every opportunity possible, how you are not seeing this is unreal. There could not be one player in the entire NBA who has played worse. He was just the ugliest player in the league to watch to the point I felt so sorry for this kid.

    And Biv your prejudice to Knox, he's a fly bye on defense and don't pass, and he puts his head down and off to the basket he goes.....when he's able to drive see a double, triple team and make a pass then i'll be a bit more happy.

    I don't mind his outside shot except when you know he's forcing it and stupid step back contested shots that aren't going in.

    He's boarding better, that I see. Defense? No. I have patience for him though and think he can make strides at his age, but I'll be damned if he's on the untouchable list.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    you are so wrong on DSJ, and this coming from me who has been in his corner, Knicks handed him the keys and he dropped them big time. He was terrible before his mom passed and aftwards no better, he showed one or two blimps and that was it.

    Knicks gave him every opportunity possible, how you are not seeing this is unreal. There could not be one player in the entire NBA who has played worse. He was just the ugliest player in the league to watch to the point I felt so sorry for this kid.

    And Biv your prejudice to Knox, he's a fly bye on defense and don't pass, and he puts his head down and off to the basket he goes.....when he's able to drive see a double, triple team and make a pass then i'll be a bit more happy.

    I don't mind his outside shot except when you know he's forcing it and stupid step back contested shots that aren't going in.

    He's boarding better, that I see. Defense? No. I have patience for him though and think he can make strides at his age, but I'll be damned if he's on the untouchable list.
    No prejudice here. I see progression and i see a better player. You guys can grunt and moan all you like but it's because you have zero patience. And if you STILL don't think Knox passes, you clearly need to get better glasses.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    No prejudice here. I see progression and i see a better player. You guys can grunt and moan all you like but it's because you have zero patience. And if you STILL don't think Knox passes, you clearly need to get better glasses.
    show me one time he passed when dribbling from way outside towards the rim? Just one and i'll go get glasses lol

    Here is two of 5 clips I watched not one highlight pass, is that normal for a guy that needs glasses to see him pass?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxUcv9KlJLI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxxEuT3W488

    Two things he is a lot more aggressive and his shot has improved greatly, when he learns how to pass and play some kind of defense we may have something here.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    show me one time he passed when dribbling from way outside towards the rim? Just one and i'll go get glasses lol

    Here is two of 5 clips I watched not one highlight pass, is that normal for a guy that needs glasses to see him pass?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxUcv9KlJLI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxxEuT3W488

    Two things he is a lot more aggressive and his shot has improved greatly, when he learns how to pass and play some kind of defense we may have something here.
    The very first highlight and in the 2bnd highlight where he's coming off a pick...I saw, HE SHOULDNT PASS IT. He's 6 9' in shoes in the lane. GO TO THE BASKET and he did and was fouled. THATS WHAT HE"S SUPPOSED TO DO. The moment he tries to become Chris Paul, is where he'll turn into Randle and turn it over 50 times a game. He's a scorer. He's supposed to shoot when he's in the lane. NO one would say Knox doesn't pass. You sound crazy.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kartyea View Post
    Rubio is better than any pg we have.
    He is above average PG shooter andsefender. But he isn't flashy so people here hate him for some reason

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by PewPew View Post
    Every signing was a step backwards, that’s a hell of a achievement if you sign 7 guys.What are the odds that that will happen if you sign random guys for 72 million, It’s like winning the lottery just inverted.
    It's amazing how nobody is giving Julius any respect her is doing exactly what we expected from him 20-10 every game just about and passing the ball but nobody else is making shots and with Payton playing big minutes it's like playing 4 on 5 most of the game.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by aNYer View Post
    He is above average PG shooter andsefender. But he isn't flashy so people here hate him for some reason
    Rubio is a good defender on bad PGs like Payton but gets destroyed by a real good PG.

    Rubio is not a good shooter stop, our PGs are just horrible and he got hot because Payton switched almost every time on the pick giving Rubio space to shoot. I thought we stopped doing that under Mike Miller? I see the team slipping back to a lot of the Fiz habits. Mike Miller is not a long term coach because he doesn't make good in game adjustments.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    Knox has NOT regressed period. I see him challenging more defensively, driving more, and taking better shots. NY fans just have zero patience.
    Correction, they only have patience for Frank. It's okay if he stinks up the joint for 3, 4, 5, or even 6 years. They'd resign him to a new contract even though he is nonproductive.

    That's all I get with the Knox hate. He's playing better defense, hustling, it's just his shot isn't falling. But the way the fans are killing him in his 2nd year is ridiculous, his game is changing for the better and soon he'll put it all together.

    Just give Knox the same leeway you give Frank and remember Frank has been playing professional basketball way longer than Knox but shows a lot less promise!
    [B]

  9. #84
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    Fact is Payton shouldn’t be on this team.

    We should have signed Brogdon or D-Lo to whatever they wanted instead of praying that DSJ turned into a franchise PG.

    Now we have to pray we have a shot at Lamelo, Haliburton or Cole Anthony.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bivory View Post
    The very first highlight and in the 2bnd highlight where he's coming off a pick...I saw, HE SHOULDNT PASS IT. He's 6 9' in shoes in the lane. GO TO THE BASKET and he did and was fouled. THATS WHAT HE"S SUPPOSED TO DO. The moment he tries to become Chris Paul, is where he'll turn into Randle and turn it over 50 times a game. He's a scorer. He's supposed to shoot when he's in the lane. NO one would say Knox doesn't pass. You sound crazy.

    You missed my point I'm not showing you clips that said he should have passed lol of course in his highlights he's going to score or get fouled, hence highlights........But I've never seen every single highlight clip that shows no passes at all?

    How about he had 1.5 assists in Nov and since in Dec and jan he is averageing .8 in Dec/Jan and he has a usage in that time fram of 18.3%.........that usage and .8 assists? Come on Biv, that should be pretty darn clear.

    I've seen him go into a log jam and have wide open players for dunks but he has no ability to get them the ball, he has one thing on his brain....

    Knox is tied for second lowest assist % on the team the lowest is Mitch, Knox is tied with the guy you complain about no moving the ball, Morris.

    8% is extremely low assist 8%, in fact his TO's is 8%, no bueno.

    I'm not saying he don't have talent, but he needs major improvement on defense and passing. He's still very young, I'm hoping.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba313 View Post
    Fact is Payton shouldn’t be on this team.

    We should have signed Brogdon or D-Lo to whatever they wanted instead of praying that DSJ turned into a franchise PG.

    Now we have to pray we have a shot at Lamelo, Haliburton or Cole Anthony.
    sadly that is basically it, and if we do land one of them we wouldn't have getting Dlo or Brog now would we?

    I have to find something positive lol

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Rubio is a good defender on bad PGs like Payton but gets destroyed by a real good PG.

    Rubio is not a good shooter stop, our PGs are just horrible and he got hot because Payton switched almost every time on the pick giving Rubio space to shoot. I thought we stopped doing that under Mike Miller? I see the team slipping back to a lot of the Fiz habits. Mike Miller is not a long term coach because he doesn't make good in game adjustments.
    Rubio has been an excellent defender his whole career. I was also surprised by the fact that Payton was not matched on Rubio a lot of the time. You are right that Rubio is usually a bad shooter and not a very good finisher either. It is what has stopped him from being a star. That said when he has a night where he is hitting the dude is very very good. I like ya Boogie but sometimes I'm not sure what game you are watching
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by still a fan View Post
    You missed my point I'm not showing you clips that said he should have passed lol of course in his highlights he's going to score or get fouled, hence highlights........But I've never seen every single highlight clip that shows no passes at all?

    How about he had 1.5 assists in Nov and since in Dec and jan he is averageing .8 in Dec/Jan and he has a usage in that time fram of 18.3%.........that usage and .8 assists? Come on Biv, that should be pretty darn clear.

    I've seen him go into a log jam and have wide open players for dunks but he has no ability to get them the ball, he has one thing on his brain....

    Knox is tied for second lowest assist % on the team the lowest is Mitch, Knox is tied with the guy you complain about no moving the ball, Morris.

    8% is extremely low assist 8%, in fact his TO's is 8%, no bueno.

    I'm not saying he don't have talent, but he needs major improvement on defense and passing. He's still very young, I'm hoping.
    Obviously Knox needs improvement. He's closer to 19 than he is 21. And your original point was that Knox doesn't pass and that he has his head down and doesn't look for teammates and that's flat out, not true. Knox is NOT a selfish player. Does he need to get better facilitating, sure. But that's different from saying he's not a willing passer.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Payton is just a really bad offensive player, he takes 8.9 shots to score 8.5 points. that's beyond awful when you're taking more shots then points. Even Frank gets 6.1ppg on 5.8 shots.

    This wasn't a secret though, there's a reason ORL traded him at just 23 years of age for the #44 pick, and PHO didn't even offer him a vet min contract, and NOLA moved on after 1 season... until Perry came in throwing him a 400% raise.

    Don't let the assists fool you either, Payton passes up so many wide open shots to continue dribbling until he finds someone, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but when defenses have zero respect for your shot it's going to hurt the team overall no matter how many assists he manages to get. He takes so many of his shots right at the rim, where players usually shoot well over 50%, yet still is only shooting 41%. He's just very bad on offense, he's not what we need at any price. I was very surprised some people were talking about resigning him at $8m per year saying he's a steal.
    This. This right here

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    It's amazing how nobody is giving Julius any respect her is doing exactly what we expected from him 20-10 every game just about and passing the ball but nobody else is making shots and with Payton playing big minutes it's like playing 4 on 5 most of the game.
    He isn't the problem, but that doesn't make him any answer either. He's a empty 20/10 so far in his career. If we really would consider him a building block, our system would be build around him, which it isn't. So it seems he rather was the best thing available and we gladly overpaid again. He would been probably a 12 mill player.
    `

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