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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Kamara got beat in carries by Ron Jones. He's washed out of a game regardless of the situation. David Montgomery beat Kamara and Gurley this year. Latavius Murray is likely better than Kamara, and Ingram was (and is) better than Kamara too. He's consistently underperformed even on his own team at the RB position.

    Henry outran CMC the last three years and only falls behind in receptions. If there were other talented players on the Panthers, it is possible CMC wouldn't have the stats he does, not that the Titans are loaded at WR either.
    The Panthers are set at WR. Moore and Samuel are very good. Moore had 1000 yards, samuel had 600ish despite only 62% of his passes being catchable. With a QB who can throw deep, Samuel is going to explode, whether that's next year or in 2021 when hes a FA.

    CMC has like 700 yards on him in 2019 and had 600 yards on him in 2018. Henry might outrun him because he's only a running threat and his team probably has a higher run% and definitely a better OL, but McCaffrey is significant more versatile as an every down back.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    The Panthers are set at WR. Moore and Samuel are very good. Moore had 1000 yards, samuel had 600ish despite only 62% of his passes being catchable. With a QB who can throw deep, Samuel is going to explode, whether that's next year or in 2021 when hes a FA.

    CMC has like 700 yards on him in 2019 and had 600 yards on him in 2018. Henry might outrun him because he's only a running threat and his team probably has a higher run% and definitely a better OL, but McCaffrey is significant more versatile as an every down back.
    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/...C035988/season
    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/...N602843/season

    Routes look about the same, just that the Panthers made CMC do it more. Swap the players to each other's teams and results would change. CMC is getting run into the ground like Murray with the Cowboys.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 266 @ 64.1%, 6.8 oer att, 1 TD, 0 INT, 92.5 Rate
    Wentz: 270 @ 57.1%, 6.4 per att, 2 TD, 2 INT, 72.5 Rate


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/...C035988/season
    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/...N602843/season

    Routes look about the same, just that the Panthers made CMC do it more. Swap the players to each other's teams and results would change. CMC is getting run into the ground like Murray with the Cowboys.
    Cmc has been a touted receiver/back since his stanford days. Many were saying he would make it intk the league based off of his receiver skills alone if he had to. I am sure only a baffoon coach wouldnt capitilize on that and just straight run him into the ground.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    Cmc has been a touted receiver/back since his stanford days. Many were saying he would make it intk the league based off of his receiver skills alone if he had to. I am sure only a baffoon coach wouldnt capitilize on that and just straight run him into the ground.
    He had multiple games on the field for 100% of his team's offensive snaps. The coach was fired, so that might make him a buffoon coach. It doesn't bode well for CMC in the long term to have that kind of load due to his position, unless he were to make a position change. Sounds like Olsen might be done, might make some sense, especially if they keep Cam and he keeps running as much as he has in various seasons.


    But yeah, making it into the league as a receiver was my point. Henry is a better RB, CMC is a better WR/TE. The Titans don't really ask Henry to play WR or TE, so including those stats in the end in a comparison doesn't make sense.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 266 @ 64.1%, 6.8 oer att, 1 TD, 0 INT, 92.5 Rate
    Wentz: 270 @ 57.1%, 6.4 per att, 2 TD, 2 INT, 72.5 Rate


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/...C035988/season
    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/...N602843/season

    Routes look about the same, just that the Panthers made CMC do it more. Swap the players to each other's teams and results would change. CMC is getting run into the ground like Murray with the Cowboys.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to link to but it's just showing up as their runs, not routes as a receiver. Henry is physically not capable of moving the way McCaffrey is as a receiver. To suggest Henry could line up in the slot and embarrass LBs and NBs is just straight up wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    He had multiple games on the field for 100% of his team's offensive snaps. The coach was fired, so that might make him a buffoon coach. It doesn't bode well for CMC in the long term to have that kind of load due to his position, unless he were to make a position change. Sounds like Olsen might be done, might make some sense, especially if they keep Cam and he keeps running as much as he has in various seasons.


    But yeah, making it into the league as a receiver was my point. Henry is a better RB, CMC is a better WR/TE. The Titans don't really ask Henry to play WR or TE, so including those stats in the end in a comparison doesn't make sense.
    He 100% was being misused under Rivera and Turner. He's far too special of a player to be wasted as a RB almost every play. I'm fine with him playing crazy high snap%, but I'd rather use him in the slot more frequently to maximize his abilities rather than run him into a wall 30 times per game like hes a common throw away RB.

    I honestly think the way you're making this sounds straight out of 1990 or something. Henry can't do 2 of the 3 things you expect from a RB (pass block and be a receiving threat from the backfield), that doesn't make him a better RB, it makes him a better down field runner.
    Last edited by manbearchef; 01-22-2020 at 04:03 PM.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'm not sure what you're trying to link to but it's just showing up as their runs, not routes as a receiver. Henry is physically not capable of moving the way McCaffrey is as a receiver. To suggest Henry could line up in the slot and embarrass LBs and NBs is just straight up wrong.

    He 100% was being misused under Rivera and Turner. He's far too special of a player to be wasted as a RB almost every play. I'm fine with him playing crazy high snap%, but I'd rather use him in the slot more frequently to maximize his abilities rather than run him into a wall 30 times per game like hes a common throw away RB.

    I honestly think the way you're making this sounds straight out of 1990 or something. Henry can't do 2 of the 3 things you expect from a RB (pass block and be a receiving threat from the backfield), that doesn't make him a better RB, it makes him a better down field runner.
    I think the broader point is, the fact that CMC can play WR or TE doesn't make him a better RB. If we go that route, then Lamar Jackson is the best RB in the league because he can also throw the ball.

    It's similar to the old thing with the Saints where Jimmy Graham wanted to be paid as a WR rather than a TE because in addition to being a good TE he was also a good WR.


    RBs like Henry and Dalvin Cook are top RBs and aren't lesser because they don't catch the ball like CMC or Bell. Given how little fullbacks are used these days, perhaps it's time to split the position between RB and Scatback or whatever. So receiving RBs can be judged against each other and regular RBs can be judged against each other.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 266 @ 64.1%, 6.8 oer att, 1 TD, 0 INT, 92.5 Rate
    Wentz: 270 @ 57.1%, 6.4 per att, 2 TD, 2 INT, 72.5 Rate


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    I think the broader point is, the fact that CMC can play WR or TE doesn't make him a better RB. If we go that route, then Lamar Jackson is the best RB in the league because he can also throw the ball.

    It's similar to the old thing with the Saints where Jimmy Graham wanted to be paid as a WR rather than a TE because in addition to being a good TE he was also a good WR.


    RBs like Henry and Dalvin Cook are top RBs and aren't lesser because they don't catch the ball like CMC or Bell. Given how little fullbacks are used these days, perhaps it's time to split the position between RB and Scatback or whatever. So receiving RBs can be judged against each other and regular RBs can be judged against each other.
    I honestly don't get why you keep saying he can play TE, I'd bet he hasn't lined up at TE 10 times in his NFL career. Hes an elite RB who can also be an elite slot WR. He still plays the bulk of his snaps at RB doing things a RB should do (run, be a receiver from the backfield, and pass block). I'm not sure why you'd label a guy who runs for 1400 yards at 4.9 YPC with 15 rushing TDs a scatback. Hes the definition of a complete RB who can also give you even more.

    BuT mUh 60% cOmPlEtion

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I honestly don't get why you keep saying he can play TE, I'd bet he hasn't lined up at TE 10 times in his NFL career. Hes an elite RB who can also be an elite slot WR. He still plays the bulk of his snaps at RB doing things a RB should do (run, be a receiver from the backfield, and pass block). I'm not sure why you'd label a guy who runs for 1400 yards at 4.9 YPC with 15 rushing TDs a scatback. Hes the definition of a complete RB who can also give you even more.
    He's not 6'2" 240 so he's a scat back.

  9. #54
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    never cared for the term scat back............I'm not a hunter, but I'm around a ton of 'em and they're constantly talking **** about scat
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    never cared for the term scat back............I'm not a hunter, but I'm around a ton of 'em and they're constantly talking **** about scat
    I feel like "scat back" is a Merrill Hodge term to explain why he was so **** at running the ball.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    never cared for the term scat back............I'm not a hunter, but I'm around a ton of 'em and they're constantly talking **** about scat
    Shrug, I've always heard it as the term for RBs that can slip tackles or move quickly vs the RBs that run straight at someone to run them over.

    > An offensive back in football who is an especially fast and elusive ballcarrier
    > https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scatback

    I guess manbear just doesn't think CMC is fast or elusive.
    Dak: 15,778 @ 65.8%, 7.6 per att, 97+21 TD, 36 INT+31 FMB, 97.0 Rate
    Wentz: 14,191 @ 63.8%, 6.9 per att, 97+3 TD, 35 INT+48 FMB, 92.7 Rate

    2020:
    Dak: 266 @ 64.1%, 6.8 oer att, 1 TD, 0 INT, 92.5 Rate
    Wentz: 270 @ 57.1%, 6.4 per att, 2 TD, 2 INT, 72.5 Rate


    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    I'll leave PSD if Foles isn't the starter in Jax (or elsewhere) next year.
    "Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
    -Scott van Pelt

  12. #57
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    13,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseyed View Post
    Shrug, I've always heard it as the term for RBs that can slip tackles or move quickly vs the RBs that run straight at someone to run them over.

    > An offensive back in football who is an especially fast and elusive ballcarrier
    > https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scatback

    I guess manbear just doesn't think CMC is fast or elusive.
    it was a joke, son
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

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