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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    717

    I Think I Know The Problem

    So hear me out on this one.

    If you look at the remaining teams in the playoffs this year, every single team drafted extremely well, but every single team other then the Titans also have had KEY free agent signings or players that were traded for.

    Chiefs: Shady McCoy, Sammy Watkins, Honey Badger, Frank Clark, etc.
    49ers: Jimmy G, Tevin Coleman, Emmanuel Sanders, Richard Sherman, Kwon Alexander, etc.
    Packers: Jimmy Graham, Preston Smith, ZaDarius Smith, Adrian Amos, etc.


    Now look at the Vikings history. If you go before 2 years ago when we had the Minneapolis Miracle, when was the last time we were LEGIT Super Bowl contenders? 2009. What did we have that year? LEGIT KEY players who were either free agent signings or traded for.

    Jared Allen, Brett Favre, Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, Steve Hutchison, Madieu Williams.

    Now look at this years team. Who are the top guys that we have signed as free agents or traded for?

    Riley Rieff, Linval Joseph, Kirk Cousins. THAT'S IT.

    We're relying completely and totally on drafting a Super Bowl contender because we are BUSTING big time on acquiring talent that was not drafted by our organization. I'm not saying that drafting isn't important because it's the most important. But you build your BASE with draft picks and then fill the holes you didn't draft in free agency and in trades. Until Rick Spielman figures out how to do that, I'm afraid this roster isn't going to get any better.

  2. #2
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    Aug 2007
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    Ya I agree. The problem is some of these contracts we gave out for our young guys were that they would continue to play at a high level or get better. Rhodes = bad, Barr = average, Linval = not the same, injuries are catching up and age.

    As much as you want to keep guys with your organization you just have to live with the fact you can't keep everyone. Need to value which position/guys are most important.

  3. #3
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    Aug 2014
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    717
    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    Ya I agree. The problem is some of these contracts we gave out for our young guys were that they would continue to play at a high level or get better. Rhodes = bad, Barr = average, Linval = not the same, injuries are catching up and age.

    As much as you want to keep guys with your organization you just have to live with the fact you can't keep everyone. Need to value which position/guys are most important.
    Completely agree. Linval I don't blame them for at all. An in the trenches guy who was a stud for us. He's just out aged his contract a little.

    The 49ers is the epitome of how to build a team. Joey Bosa, Arik Armstead, DeForest Buckner, Joe Staley, Mike McGlinchey all first round picks in the trenches. They INVESTED in the big boys, and then built the roster around them by filling holes with guys like Jimmy G, Tevin Coleman, Emmanuel Sanders, Richard Sherman, and Kwon Alexander.

    Other then Danielle Hunter and Everson Griffen (which was almost 10 years ago) this team has made ZERO investment in the draft in the trenches until Bradberry this year. And because of that had to invest in guys like Alex Boone, Riley Rieff, Mike Remmers, Josh Kline, Nick Easton, etc who ALL failed and didn't allow us to invest free agent money anywhere else.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2005
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    South Dakota
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorPride View Post
    Completely agree. Linval I don't blame them for at all. An in the trenches guy who was a stud for us. He's just out aged his contract a little.

    The 49ers is the epitome of how to build a team. Joey Bosa, Arik Armstead, DeForest Buckner, Joe Staley, Mike McGlinchey all first round picks in the trenches. They INVESTED in the big boys, and then built the roster around them by filling holes with guys like Jimmy G, Tevin Coleman, Emmanuel Sanders, Richard Sherman, and Kwon Alexander.

    Other then Danielle Hunter and Everson Griffen (which was almost 10 years ago) this team has made ZERO investment in the draft in the trenches until Bradberry this year. And because of that had to invest in guys like Alex Boone, Riley Rieff, Mike Remmers, Josh Kline, Nick Easton, etc who ALL failed and didn't allow us to invest free agent money anywhere else.
    Nick Bosa btw but...

    We did draft interior DL, we've just not had good luck...how different would the thinking be if not for Shariff Floyd's issues? And what happened to Elflein on the OL? Like Kalil, looked like a solid pick...for 1 season.

    Niners invested in the trenches more....we invested in DBs more...I mean we have 3 1sts and a 2nd invested in our 'top' 4 corners alone...the problem is, none have really matched the value we placed on picking them.

    But if we were going to invest what we did in a less mobile QB, it should have been a foregone conclusion to not just try, but succeed in building up the OL...........so to me while drafting well and signing key FAs is part of it, HOWEVER you can build strong lines on both sides of the ball is a major key.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  5. #5
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    Mar 2008
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    Nothing to do with all of our 1st round whiffs.. imagine if we prioritized the o-line with all those whiffs we might be in the super bowl this year.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
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    4
    Dallas had 4 1st rounders on their O line not so long ago - still have 3 there. Hows that working out for them?

    If you use the picks on O line, then other areas suffer. Frankly, in this day and age guys coming out of college arent fit to play on the line from day 1. Look at Bradbury for example. Probably one of the most pro-ready O line in last years draft and he was sub-60 in PFF last year. O'Neill had a decent year in his rookie year. No sacks but still only a 63 PFF grade. Was over 70 in 19 with 2 sacks. So based on him (and others) you can expect O line to take 3 years to develop before they are real starting caliber linemen.

    Better off signing FAs on the O line. D line is another matter. Andre Patterson is a wizard. Zim gave him a can of play-dough and some legos one year and he built Hunter out of it it...
    Last edited by Met Stadium; 01-29-2020 at 01:48 AM.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2008
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    Minneapolis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Met Stadium View Post
    Dallas had 4 1st rounders on their O line not so long ago - still have 3 there. Hows that working out for them?

    If you use the picks on O line, then other areas suffer. Frankly, in this day and age guys coming out of college arent fit to play on the line from day 1. Look at Bradbury for example. Probably one of the most pro-ready O line in last years draft and he was sub-60 in PFF last year. O'Neill had a decent year in his rookie year. No sacks but still only a 63 PFF grade. Was over 70 in 19 with 2 sacks. So based on him (and others) you can expect O line to take 3 years to develop before they are real starting caliber linemen.

    Better off signing FAs on the O line. D line is another matter. Andre Patterson is a wizard. Zim gave him a can of play-dough and some legos one year and he built Hunter out of it it...
    I saw a post similar to this somewhere else (maybe Reddit), but it makes sense to me. Use FA to address the o-line, draft d-line.

  8. #8
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    Richmond, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Met Stadium View Post
    Dallas had 4 1st rounders on their O line not so long ago - still have 3 there. Hows that working out for them?

    If you use the picks on O line, then other areas suffer. Frankly, in this day and age guys coming out of college arent fit to play on the line from day 1. Look at Bradbury for example. Probably one of the most pro-ready O line in last years draft and he was sub-60 in PFF last year. O'Neill had a decent year in his rookie year. No sacks but still only a 63 PFF grade. Was over 70 in 19 with 2 sacks. So based on him (and others) you can expect O line to take 3 years to develop before they are real starting caliber linemen.

    Better off signing FAs on the O line. D line is another matter. Andre Patterson is a wizard. Zim gave him a can of play-dough and some legos one year and he built Hunter out of it it...
    I agree. I'd also like to see them address CB through free agency as well. They seem to just waste early picks every year on CBs that don't really pan out or turn out to be just average.
    https://orig00.deviantart.net/1dc3/f/2018/078/e/e/cousins_by_matthew998-dc6cc8l.png

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    I agree. I'd also like to see them address CB through free agency as well. They seem to just waste early picks every year on CBs that don't really pan out or turn out to be just average.
    the problem isn't just picks of CBs early, it's specifically 1st round picks PERIOD
    Since Percy Harvin in 2009 they've been:
    Christian Ponder
    Matt Kalil
    Hitman Harry
    Shariff Floyd
    Xavier Rhodes
    Cordarelle Patterson
    Anthony Barr
    Teddy Bridgewater
    Trae Waynes
    LaQuan Treadwell
    Mike Hughes
    Garrett Bradbury

    Not a lot of hits in that list....sure, extenuating circumstances with Shariff and Teddy that may otherwise be viewed as hits and the jury still out on Bradbury, even Hughes, but..............maybe Rick simply needs to trade out of the 1st, he's done better with 2nds anyway
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    the problem isn't just picks of CBs early, it's specifically 1st round picks PERIOD
    Since Percy Harvin in 2009 they've been:
    Christian Ponder
    Matt Kalil
    Hitman Harry
    Shariff Floyd
    Xavier Rhodes
    Cordarelle Patterson
    Anthony Barr
    Teddy Bridgewater
    Trae Waynes
    LaQuan Treadwell
    Mike Hughes
    Garrett Bradbury

    Not a lot of hits in that list....sure, extenuating circumstances with Shariff and Teddy that may otherwise be viewed as hits and the jury still out on Bradbury, even Hughes, but..............maybe Rick simply needs to trade out of the 1st, he's done better with 2nds anyway
    Definitely agree. There are a few major whiffs on that list which has set this franchise back because it seems like Rick wants to almost build exclusively through the draft. We would probably be in a different spot if he mixed in more impactful free agent signings.

    Trading our early picks for established NFL talent would also be another option.
    https://orig00.deviantart.net/1dc3/f/2018/078/e/e/cousins_by_matthew998-dc6cc8l.png

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    1,336
    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    the problem isn't just picks of CBs early, it's specifically 1st round picks PERIOD
    Since Percy Harvin in 2009 they've been:
    Christian Ponder
    Matt Kalil
    Hitman Harry
    Shariff Floyd
    Xavier Rhodes
    Cordarelle Patterson
    Anthony Barr
    Teddy Bridgewater
    Trae Waynes
    LaQuan Treadwell
    Mike Hughes
    Garrett Bradbury

    Not a lot of hits in that list....sure, extenuating circumstances with Shariff and Teddy that may otherwise be viewed as hits and the jury still out on Bradbury, even Hughes, but..............maybe Rick simply needs to trade out of the 1st, he's done better with 2nds anyway
    I really can't stand 1st round picks honestly, imagine if we traded back in the draft on all those wiffs and take multiple guys with chips on their shoulders, it would also have freed up a lot of cap room to sign studs in FA. Although I don't believe a lot of stud linemen become available in FA, linemen need to be built/molded from the draft.

  12. #12
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    Definitely agree. There are a few major whiffs on that list which has set this franchise back because it seems like Rick wants to almost build exclusively through the draft. We would probably be in a different spot if he mixed in more impactful free agent signings.

    Trading our early picks for established NFL talent would also be another option.
    Building through the draft is a good idea unless you aren't capable of building thru the draft. Speilman seems to be lost.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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  13. #13
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    Nov 2010
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    Rochester, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by carter80 View Post
    Building through the draft is a good idea unless you aren't capable of building thru the draft. Speilman seems to be lost.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Rick seems to get a mixed bag of praise and **** from Vikings fans. I try to be as positive about their moves and really wish we would see some more impactful FA signings. I think what a lot of fans and myself included forget often are some of the challenges Rick has had to face. Teddy going down and Bradfords injuries really set the Vikings back as an organization both drafting and free Cap/Free agency wise for the last 4-5 years.

    Having a situation where you have a strong playoff caliber team lose a possible franchise QB weeks before the season and having to give up a big chunk of Cash and picks for Bradford bust to see him fizzle out to injury in the next couple seasons. Scrambling to build a strong enough team with no cap space and limited picks to support Case Keenum and sitting on a Super Bowl caliber team with NO QBs on the roster...

    Teddy's injury was a real tragedy for the vikings that caused a waterfall of challenges to where we are today.

    Anxious to see how Rick and company approach this offseason as changes need to come and this team needs an injection of talent through both draft AND free agency. I think it's vital that the vikings sign 1 concrete starter on the Oline and a possible 2nd starter/competing player similar to Kline.

  14. #14
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    Aug 2014
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    717
    Damn that list of 1st round picks is embarassing.

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